FB: Liberty League

[Bombers798891]

When I went to Ithaca in the mid 1990's, the roster was about 80 or so.  38 of the 40 freshman played JV, and the summer before your sophomore year, the coaching staff would decide if you were "invited" to the varsity team the next year.  I'm guessing 25 out of the 40 got asked back.  The 15 or so who got "cut" were able to play JV again if they wanted to and that in fact did happen.  In addition to those 15 frosh "cuts" there might be 2-3 juniors or sophs who also didn't get asked back for various reasons.  Those were the tough ones.  I don't think that is how Ithaca operates today or if that was just the way it was back then.

Quarterbacks are kind of in a different category as well.  Many of these guys can only play one position and it is rare that a 3rd or 4th stringer gets any action where a 3rd or 4th string position player may get some special teams time or other garbage time.

To your first point, I do know Jim almost never played freshmen (injuries aside), so Mike may have just carried that on. I don't know the exact way it operates today.

To your second, fair enough about QBs being unique. I guess my larger point is sort of this: If there are two timelines for the 2010 Bombers, the one we had and the one where Jason Hendel turned out to be the player Mike Welch thought he would be, Rob Zappia is still the same caliber of QB, and believing that about himself, he's likely to stick around for his shot. I think a majority of players are like that, but I wasn't an athlete, so maybe I'm wrong.

I just think, looking at some kid buried 4th on the depth chart somewhere and wondering "Why is he still on the roster?" is odd

[Jonny Utah]

When I went to Ithaca in the mid 1990's, the roster was about 80 or so.  38 of the 40 freshman played JV, and the summer before your sophomore year, the coaching staff would decide if you were "invited" to the varsity team the next year.  I'm guessing 25 out of the 40 got asked back.  The 15 or so who got "cut" were able to play JV again if they wanted to and that in fact did happen.  In addition to those 15 frosh "cuts" there might be 2-3 juniors or sophs who also didn't get asked back for various reasons.  Those were the tough ones.  I don't think that is how Ithaca operates today or if that was just the way it was back then.

Quarterbacks are kind of in a different category as well.  Many of these guys can only play one position and it is rare that a 3rd or 4th stringer gets any action where a 3rd or 4th string position player may get some special teams time or other garbage time.

To your first point, I do know Jim almost never played freshmen (injuries aside), so Mike may have just carried that on. I don't know the exact way it operates today.

To your second, fair enough about QBs being unique. I guess my larger point is sort of this: If there are two timelines for the 2010 Bombers, the one we had and the one where Jason Hendel turned out to be the player Mike Welch thought he would be, Rob Zappia is still the same caliber of QB, and believing that about himself, he's likely to stick around for his shot. I think a majority of players are like that, but I wasn't an athlete, so maybe I'm wrong.

I just think, looking at some kid buried 4th on the depth chart somewhere and wondering "Why is he still on the roster?" is odd

To add to that, I remember kids who didn't crack the lineup as a soph or jr. and transferred to other d3 schools where they thought they could play.  A few of them simply thought they were better than they were (and didn't play somewhere else), while others actually did play.  Some moved up (Not sure if you remember Justin Johnson in 1993 who end up transferring to Pittsburg St. KS), others just moved closer to home or somewhere else because they didn't like it at IC for other reasons.

[Jonny Utah]

https://www.ecacsports.com/news/2017/12/4/ecac-announces-diii-football-major-awards-all-ecac-teams.aspx

For what it's worth, the ECAC d3 team came out the other day.  Only first teamer was Sean Egan from RPI.  A few other IC/RPI guys got 2nd team and according to a twitter link by the LL, a few more IC/RPI guys got 3rd team but they aren't mentioned on the ECAC site.

Oh and Nabi got rookie of he year

[ITH radio]

ECAC still covers about 40% of D3FB but with teams like Hobart, Brockport and others slowly moving out, it seems like these lists are going to have a lot more PA kids than NYS ones in the coming years.

Nabi is deserving and was great last season. It'll be fun to watch him and Marinopolous the next 3 yrs in the LL.

[Jonny Utah]

ECAC still covers about 40% of D3FB but with teams like Hobart, Brockport and others slowly moving out, it seems like these lists are going to have a lot more PA kids than NYS ones in the coming years.

Nabi is deserving and was great last season. It'll be fun to watch him and Marinopolous the next 3 yrs in the LL.

Or more Ithaca and RPI ones!!!

I don't know what you have to do or pay to be in the ECAC or what benefits you get but guys like Brandon Shed probably lost out on a trophy.....?

[Jonny Utah]

RE: ECAC

I college hockey guy I know said a couple d3 teams left the ECAC hockey conference and all of those teams left the ECAC at the same time? 

[UfanBill]

So the discussion of roster size and whether and why a player would want to be buried way down the depth chart at schools like MHBU, MTU or DelVal has revealed that most of us think around 100 on a D3 roster is tenable. The question is does MTU with 179, MHBU with 172 and even DelVal with 142 seem to be unworkable?  For those schools with JV teams, so basically two squads, I guess if you want to play JV at MHBU rather than get varsity playing time somewhere else, that's your prerogative. Many LL schools don't field a JV team anymore.  At Union this past season there were just 87 players listed on the roster, with no JV schedule. Of that number approximately 30 did not play, not ever. In fact in looking at the Box Scores from this past year's games in the Participation column, the highest number of Union players participating in any game was 59 versus Rochester.   Now many of them were freshmen but more than half were upperclassmen. Without a JV team that means practice was their only outlet for "playing" time. I don't care what level of football you play, D3, D2, D1 or even the NFL, only about fifty guys, barring huge blowouts, can expect to get any playing time come game day. That's reflected in NFL rosters being capped at 53. Now I know you need depth to account for injuries but that just means the two deeps move up to starters and a third stringer might start occasionally.  Usually coaches will fill in for injuries by moving second string guys around, not by bringing in scrubs.  My point is it takes real dedication, sacrifice and a love for the game to be a third or fourth stringer. Maybe it's enough just to be in pads with the opportunity to hit somebody. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't give my left nut to be suited up again. It's part of what makes the game so great.

[jhahn201]

Another thing to consider with Mount is that while you may not start there is a chance that as 2nd string you could see more playing time then first string because of blowouts/OAC being weak in general and wanting to save wear and tear for the real season (playoffs). 3rd 4th and even 5th string will see meaningful time in the 3rd and 4th quarters normally still against the opponents 1st string. Add to that an extra 5 games worth of practice and 3 games worth of likely playing time for the ones that make the playoff roster. Over the course of the season I wouldnt be surprised if Mounts 3rd and 4th string have more playing time then an average schools second string. Oh and if Im 5th string I still have a great chance of having a nice little National Championship ring to show off to my grandkids.

[Jonny Utah]

So the discussion of roster size and whether and why a player would want to be buried way down the depth chart at schools like MHBU, MTU or DelVal has revealed that most of us think around 100 on a D3 roster is tenable. The question is does MTU with 179, MHBU with 172 and even DelVal with 142 seem to be unworkable?  For those schools with JV teams, so basically two squads, I guess if you want to play JV at MHBU rather than get varsity playing time somewhere else, that's your prerogative. Many LL schools don't field a JV team anymore.  At Union this past season there were just 87 players listed on the roster, with no JV schedule. Of that number approximately 30 did not play, not ever. In fact in looking at the Box Scores from this past year's games in the Participation column, the highest number of Union players participating in any game was 59 versus Rochester.   Now many of them were freshmen but more than half were upperclassmen. Without a JV team that means practice was their only outlet for "playing" time. I don't care what level of football you play, D3, D2, D1 or even the NFL, only about fifty guys, barring huge blowouts, can expect to get any playing time come game day. That's reflected in NFL rosters being capped at 53. Now I know you need depth to account for injuries but that just means the two deeps move up to starters and a third stringer might start occasionally.  Usually coaches will fill in for injuries by moving second string guys around, not by bringing in scrubs.  My point is it takes real dedication, sacrifice and a love for the game to be a third or fourth stringer. Maybe it's enough just to be in pads with the opportunity to hit somebody. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't give my left nut to be suited up again. It's part of what makes the game so great.

.

I think at some point you might just accept that you won't play much but enjoy being part of a team and everything that goes with it.  It can be a great break mentally from the academic rigors of college, god knows I spend 75% of my college time sleeping, drinking, playing video games, and being hungover.  Football still only made up about 2% of my time commitment overall.

[Bombers798891]

Nabi is deserving and was great last season. It'll be fun to watch him and Marinopolous the next 3 yrs in the LL.

Yeah. Nabi's going to benefit from his best WRs being a sophomore and FR as well. He's going to put up some prolific numbers. In fact, if he's healthy, I think he'll own every record there is for the Bombers

[Oline89]

[/quote].

I think at some point you might just accept that you won't play much but enjoy being part of a team and everything that goes with it.  It can be a great break mentally from the academic rigors of college, god knows I spend 75% of my college time sleeping, drinking, playing video games, and being hungover.  Football still only made up about 2% of my time commitment overall.
[/quote]


The time commitment to play college football today (at least at the upper tier D3 programs, D2 and D1) is significant.  In season, at least 4 hours per day in the afternoon for practice/meetings and 1 hour at 6 or 7 AM for lifting.  Off season at least 1-2 hours per day for strength and conditioning, until spring practices begin.  There can't be many players willing to go through that kind of commitment just to be part of a team, there has to be some sort of "carrot" at the end.  Does anyone really know that the 4th or 5th string O lineman really play in the Mt Union blowouts?  Is there a freshman schedule for the 50 players that aren't even on the roster?  In most LL games I watched, the starters really played until the game was at least 21+ point difference and it was 4th quarter.  Third stringers maybe saw time in major blowouts, in the last 2-3 minutes.  I think the 40+ freshman accept his, knowing that by the time they are junior/seniors, they will get 3+ quarters of real playing time. 

[Jonny Utah]

.

I think at some point you might just accept that you won't play much but enjoy being part of a team and everything that goes with it.  It can be a great break mentally from the academic rigors of college, god knows I spend 75% of my college time sleeping, drinking, playing video games, and being hungover.  Football still only made up about 2% of my time commitment overall.
[/quote]


The time commitment to play college football today (at least at the upper tier D3 programs, D2 and D1) is significant.  In season, at least 4 hours per day in the afternoon for practice/meetings and 1 hour at 6 or 7 AM for lifting.  Off season at least 1-2 hours per day for strength and conditioning, until spring practices begin.  There can't be many players willing to go through that kind of commitment just to be part of a team, there has to be some sort of "carrot" at the end.  Does anyone really know that the 4th or 5th string O lineman really play in the Mt Union blowouts?  Is there a freshman schedule for the 50 players that aren't even on the roster?  In most LL games I watched, the starters really played until the game was at least 21+ point difference and it was 4th quarter.  Third stringers maybe saw time in major blowouts, in the last 2-3 minutes.  I think the 40+ freshman accept his, knowing that by the time they are junior/seniors, they will get 3+ quarters of real playing time.
[/quote]

I think in season you are talking about 3-4 hours a day including a lift/meetings at the most for d3 players.  D1 players have mandatory study halls and other things to keep them focused on their studies and have less time to mess around like your d3 athlete does for sure.  Your average college student has 2-4 hours of classes per day?   Lets say you study another 1-2 hours, it is still barely adding up to an 8 hour day.  I'm not saying there are a lot of guys who stay on the team just to be on a team, but there definitely about 10-20 on most d3 teams.

[Bombers798891]

There has to be some sort of "carrot" at the end. 

There is. The potential of playing time.

That some guys never wind up seeing the field for whatever reason is something they can't predict. I'm sure, if you had a crystal ball and told these guys "You'll never get playing time" some of them would quit. But until that final gun sounds their senior year, I bet 95% think they have that shot. IC had a senior QB who made the first start of his career in the 2nd round of the 2001 playoffs...and threw for a school-playoff record 268 yards in a 27-10 win after the starter got hurt.

Sure, I'm sure there are some kids who just go full Rudy and want to be associated with the football program, but I'd bet an overwhelming majority believe they can, and will make an impact

[jhahn201]

In most LL games I watched, the starters really played until the game was at least 21+ point difference and it was 4th quarter.  Third stringers maybe saw time in major blowouts, in the last 2-3 minutes.  I think the 40+ freshman accept his, knowing that by the time they are junior/seniors, they will get 3+ quarters of real playing time.

Through the regular season 21 point difference happens about 7 minutes into the first quarter. Sure the 3rd and 4th stringers could go start for just about any other OAC team but who really wants to play the part of sacrificial lamb.

[dlippiel]

dlip just wanted to wish everyone on the LLPP (including Mach) a Happy New Year! dlip really enjoys bsing on here and talking D3 football with all of you. All the best to you and your families!