FB: Liberty League

[Jonny Utah]

What's crazy here is at the end of the year, if Brockport and RPI(and Ithaca) all win out, Ithaca will have lost to <end of the year guess> the #3 team in the country by 6, and <end of the year guess> #15 team in the country by 1, while beating <end of the year guess> 8-2 Alfred and <end of the year guess> 8-2 Cortland with additional quality wins over Hobart and Union. At the VERY least, i'd say Ithaca will have a really good argument if the NCAA committee looks beyond records only.

Maybe a 9-1 W. Conn or MMA will get in over them.

The thing is, we've seen a lot of talk on the ERFP about how these NE teams aren't that good, relative to NY teams.

Here are the wins for a 7-3 Cortland (They still have Brockport to lose to as well): Fitchburg and Framingham. Utica and Morrisville (3-3), Hartwick (2-4), Buff State (1-5), Fisher (1-4)

Here are the wins for a 6-3 Union: Husson, Coast Guard, Springfield, Curry. St. Lawrence (who would be locked in at 2-7 in your scenario based on the fact that they're losing to IC, Union, and RPI. They've also got to play Hobart, so they're probably 2-8). And Rochester, who is certainly going 1-9.

So, if these NE teams are a step or two below the NY teams, I'm not sure how we can frame Cortland, Hobart, and Union as all that good. Because to me, it looks like Cortland and Union beat up on NE teams and the lousy teams in their conference, and then lost to every good team they played. Hobart, meanwhile, lost to one of those supposedly inferior NE teams

This trio might be decent, but at the end of the day, I wouldn't hang a playoff resume on beating them.

I'd love nothing more to see this IC defense in the playoffs to pull off a 17-13 upset of a few teams. But the wins just aren't that impressive to me

Totally agree with you (and swung and missed on Cortland/Brockport, thought I accounted for it). I'm just saying Ithaca's losses are so darn close to a very much top tier team, and a 3rd tier team and the rest of the schedule is not absolute garbage, like some of the other leagues out there. I just think they would still have an argument, but you're right, they probably lack that signature 1-2 wins. Is it possible to get in with 2 signature losses? Probably not, but maybe?

Yea, that is why it is hard to judge these teams until we have some playoff scores.

The only real good out of conference/region games this year that tell us anything are this:

Brockport Vs. Ithaca and Hobart
Cortland Vs. Two top NE teams (Framingham and Bridgewater)
Wesley Vs. Del Val

That is about it.  I did just notice that the MAC #2 team (Misericordia) lost to Merchant Marine in week 1, but MM seems like a decent team as well.  This might be the biggest game we have all been missing though.  A "NE" conference team beating the #2 MAC team by a few TDs.  Now the MAC may just be a one team league, but Del Val isn't doing to the MAC what Brockport is doing to the E8, so that might tell you something.

I also noticed that Microscope (I'm going to call them that from now on because I keep spelling it wrong) doesn't even play Del Val this year.  Will that factor into pool C if both those teams go 9-1?

We really don't know anything about the MAC, as that league only allows one non league game.  That almost makes it like the Nescac.  We know Del Val gave Brockport a game at home last year, but a week 1 loss vs. Wesley doesn't tell us much. 

So like Mach says, we can spin this all we want.  If the MAC #2 team gets blown out by an NE Team (whose teams Union has controlled), why should we take any stock in Wesley's win over Del Val? 

[Machiavelli]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

[Bombers798891]

Totally agree with you (and swung and missed on Cortland/Brockport, thought I accounted for it). I'm just saying Ithaca's losses are so darn close to a very much top tier team, and a 3rd tier team and the rest of the schedule is not absolute garbage, like some of the other leagues out there. I just think they would still have an argument, but you're right, they probably lack that signature 1-2 wins. Is it possible to get in with 2 signature losses? Probably not, but maybe?

Agreed, IC has some of the best losses you could hope for, both in terms of quality of opponent and how the actual games went. And every week, Brockport hangs 50 points on someone, which makes that loss look better.

Ultimately I think this last part is the thing: When a playoff resume hangs on the quality of losses, not wins, it's tough, especially when there's a second loss.

In an era with 26 AQs, and just 5 Pool Cs, you have really no margin for error.

[Jonny Utah]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

Not sure where I read it, but Del Val lost most of their defense from last year, and is one of the reasons they were not ranked as high this year in the preseason polls.  But they were the clear #2 last year.  I'm not sure how impressed we can be with Frostburgs playoff run, but I'm guessing the preseason polls took into account returning players.  The d3 pool is pretty accurate in that sense. 

[Jonny Utah]

Totally agree with you (and swung and missed on Cortland/Brockport, thought I accounted for it). I'm just saying Ithaca's losses are so darn close to a very much top tier team, and a 3rd tier team and the rest of the schedule is not absolute garbage, like some of the other leagues out there. I just think they would still have an argument, but you're right, they probably lack that signature 1-2 wins. Is it possible to get in with 2 signature losses? Probably not, but maybe?

Agreed, IC has some of the best losses you could hope for, both in terms of quality of opponent and how the actual games went. And every week, Brockport hangs 50 points on someone, which makes that loss look better.

Ultimately I think this last part is the thing: When a playoff resume hangs on the quality of losses, not wins, it's tough, especially when there's a second loss.

In an era with 26 AQs, and just 5 Pool Cs, you have really no margin for error.

It also hurts that RPI and Ithaca are kind of limping through some of these games.  Struggling with SJF, Utica, WPI, and even Alfred doesn't help either team in the long run.  If Ithaca beat Alfred and SJF by 30+, we could possibly chalk the RPI loss as one bad game with the 2nd string QB, but isn't in the criteria the last time I checked.  Can't afford "one bad game" this year.

[Ice Bear]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

Not sure where I read it, but Del Val lost most of their defense from last year, and is one of the reasons they were not ranked as high this year in the preseason polls.  But they were the clear #2 last year.  I'm not sure how impressed we can be with Frostburgs playoff run, but I'm guessing the preseason polls took into account returning players.  The d3 pool is pretty accurate in that sense.

This is one of the reasons Dutch Boy can't bring himself to raise Del Val out of the 8-10 spot in the poll.

Some good points on here fellas.

[Ice Bear]

In analyzing the RPI Engineers for this weekend's game with the Statesmen, I can characterize the RPI team as doing whatever it takes to win. This is despite the fact that they were outgained by their opponent in every game except the the blowout against 1-5 Buffalo State. In fact , against the Bombers they lost the yardage battle 418-162(Ithaca , how did you lose at home with this yardage advantage?....IC seemed to wear lead shoes in the redzone). This RPI rubberband defense is tough in the redzone and has 13 INTs on the year( 8 total against Allegheny and WPI). Their run defense is strong with only 506 yards against them , but 1,306 given up in the air shows some vulnerability. This undefeated team has a total yardage disadvantage against opponents of -151 yards( 1661 v. 1812). Their kicking game is decent and return game is very good. So ,how did they win all their games with such mediocre stats except for the 13-2 INT advantage? It seems the offense has made plays at the critical times of the game  and a defense that is carrying this team with a "bend don't break" approach that toughens in the red zone and is always lurking to pick a pass off.
  I am actually less scared of this ranked team after reviewing the stats. Hobart not only has a chance , but I believe a good chance on Saturday. Turnovers will be the key to the game and Hobart's redzone offense. I think the Hobart passing game will get their yards and the run game, even without Harvey,has shown improvement as our young Oline keeps improving. I also think Hobart has a special weapon in Kyle Hackett , and if Hobart wins, Kyle will be the difference if Hobart sputters in the redone(Hobart is 21-21 in redzone scoring this year). The Hobart defense is vulnerable to even a methodical offense like RPI, but they have improved week by week , and hopefully are at the peak of their ability.
  So, I am saying ...we have a decent chance in Troy....the Hobart coaching staff seemed to grow up in the Union game, DeWall  can start to earn a reputation with a win against RPI this Saturday.  Go Bart

To Dutch Boy this is the BIG game for RPI and will provide us with the most insight into how good they may be (within reason). Granted Hobart's season has not been impressive (by Hobart standards), especially with that mother****ing loss to Endicott, however Dutch Boy feels Bart has hit their stride and will be playing the best ball they are capable of this season come Saturday. League games are especially tough and can certainly bring out the best in teams. If RPI can't beat Hobart, hiccup or not, it tells Dutch they really aren't as good as some may think. IDBHO all the pressure sits on the Engineers this weekend. If they can stop fantasizing about Shirley in a G-String, focus, and win in a convincing manner, they might just really be top 20 worthy.

[Bartman]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

This is crazy that DVC and Le Miz could actually tie if they win out since Miz does not play either of the 2 best MAC teams, DVC and Stevenson. If Stevenson finishes "third", I believe DVC has the tie breaker with a win over the next highest ranked team in the conference. Of course, if Le Miz wins out and DelVal loses against Widener, in the last game(it is possible) the Miserables could win the auto bid for the MAC as an undefeated champion, never having faced DVC or Stevenson...crazy.

[Machiavelli]

In analyzing the RPI Engineers for this weekend's game with the Statesmen, I can characterize the RPI team as doing whatever it takes to win. This is despite the fact that they were outgained by their opponent in every game except the the blowout against 1-5 Buffalo State. In fact , against the Bombers they lost the yardage battle 418-162(Ithaca , how did you lose at home with this yardage advantage?....IC seemed to wear lead shoes in the redzone). This RPI rubberband defense is tough in the redzone and has 13 INTs on the year( 8 total against Allegheny and WPI). Their run defense is strong with only 506 yards against them , but 1,306 given up in the air shows some vulnerability. This undefeated team has a total yardage disadvantage against opponents of -151 yards( 1661 v. 1812). Their kicking game is decent and return game is very good. So ,how did they win all their games with such mediocre stats except for the 13-2 INT advantage? It seems the offense has made plays at the critical times of the game  and a defense that is carrying this team with a "bend don't break" approach that toughens in the red zone and is always lurking to pick a pass off.
  I am actually less scared of this ranked team after reviewing the stats. Hobart not only has a chance , but I believe a good chance on Saturday. Turnovers will be the key to the game and Hobart's redzone offense. I think the Hobart passing game will get their yards and the run game, even without Harvey,has shown improvement as our young Oline keeps improving. I also think Hobart has a special weapon in Kyle Hackett , and if Hobart wins, Kyle will be the difference if Hobart sputters in the redone(Hobart is 21-21 in redzone scoring this year). The Hobart defense is vulnerable to even a methodical offense like RPI, but they have improved week by week , and hopefully are at the peak of their ability.
  So, I am saying ...we have a decent chance in Troy....the Hobart coaching staff seemed to grow up in the Union game, DeWall  can start to earn a reputation with a win against RPI this Saturday.  Go Bart

To Dutch Boy this is the BIG game for RPI and will provide us with the most insight into how good they may be (within reason). Granted Hobart's season has not been impressive (by Hobart standards), especially with that mother****ing loss to Endicott, however Dutch Boy feels Bart has hit their stride and will be playing the best ball they are capable of this season come Saturday. League games are especially tough and can certainly bring out the best in teams. If RPI can't beat Hobart, hiccup or not, it tells Dutch they really aren't as good as some may think. IDBHO all the pressure sits on the Engineers this weekend. If they can stop fantasizing about Shirley in a G-String, focus, and win in a convincing manner, they might just really be top 20 worthy.

Hobart ALWAYS scares the crap out of me. While RPI/Union was always the 'hated', 'other side of the river' rivalry, Hobart is and always has been the scariest and usually most contested game on both teams' schedules for the past 20 years. There have been some absolutely bizarre finishes. Hobart has beaten undefeated RPI teams before and vice/versa. Records are out the window.

While Sunday I may sing a different tune if things don't go in this direction, I get the distinct feeling that this RPI team has the uncanny ability to win in any form or fashion except in 'style'. They've played poorly and won close. They've play great and won close. They've played mediocre and won big. They are a bit all over the map but have had an ability to end up on the right side of the score. After the Wesley game last year, I think RPI has shown it can play with just about anyone from a pure toughness perspective and I think that carries them in these tough games. Hopefully they can pull it out this week and heal up for the next 3 weeks until the Union game, which would turn out to be for pride and playoff seeding only.

[Ice Bear]

In analyzing the RPI Engineers for this weekend's game with the Statesmen, I can characterize the RPI team as doing whatever it takes to win. This is despite the fact that they were outgained by their opponent in every game except the the blowout against 1-5 Buffalo State. In fact , against the Bombers they lost the yardage battle 418-162(Ithaca , how did you lose at home with this yardage advantage?....IC seemed to wear lead shoes in the redzone). This RPI rubberband defense is tough in the redzone and has 13 INTs on the year( 8 total against Allegheny and WPI). Their run defense is strong with only 506 yards against them , but 1,306 given up in the air shows some vulnerability. This undefeated team has a total yardage disadvantage against opponents of -151 yards( 1661 v. 1812). Their kicking game is decent and return game is very good. So ,how did they win all their games with such mediocre stats except for the 13-2 INT advantage? It seems the offense has made plays at the critical times of the game  and a defense that is carrying this team with a "bend don't break" approach that toughens in the red zone and is always lurking to pick a pass off.
  I am actually less scared of this ranked team after reviewing the stats. Hobart not only has a chance , but I believe a good chance on Saturday. Turnovers will be the key to the game and Hobart's redzone offense. I think the Hobart passing game will get their yards and the run game, even without Harvey,has shown improvement as our young Oline keeps improving. I also think Hobart has a special weapon in Kyle Hackett , and if Hobart wins, Kyle will be the difference if Hobart sputters in the redone(Hobart is 21-21 in redzone scoring this year). The Hobart defense is vulnerable to even a methodical offense like RPI, but they have improved week by week , and hopefully are at the peak of their ability.
  So, I am saying ...we have a decent chance in Troy....the Hobart coaching staff seemed to grow up in the Union game, DeWall  can start to earn a reputation with a win against RPI this Saturday.  Go Bart

To Dutch Boy this is the BIG game for RPI and will provide us with the most insight into how good they may be (within reason). Granted Hobart's season has not been impressive (by Hobart standards), especially with that mother****ing loss to Endicott, however Dutch Boy feels Bart has hit their stride and will be playing the best ball they are capable of this season come Saturday. League games are especially tough and can certainly bring out the best in teams. If RPI can't beat Hobart, hiccup or not, it tells Dutch they really aren't as good as some may think. IDBHO all the pressure sits on the Engineers this weekend. If they can stop fantasizing about Shirley in a G-String, focus, and win in a convincing manner, they might just really be top 20 worthy.

Hobart ALWAYS scares the crap out of me. While RPI/Union was always the 'hated', 'other side of the river' rivalry, Hobart is and always has been the scariest and usually most contested game on both teams' schedules for the past 20 years. There have been some absolutely bizarre finishes. Hobart has beaten undefeated RPI teams before and vice/versa. Records are out the window.

While Sunday I may sing a different tune if things don't go in this direction, I get the distinct feeling that this RPI team has the uncanny ability to win in any form or fashion except in 'style'. They've played poorly and won close. They've play great and won close. They've played mediocre and won big. They are a bit all over the map but have had an ability to end up on the right side of the score. After the Wesley game last year, I think RPI has shown it can play with just about anyone from a pure toughness perspective and I think that carries them in these tough games. Hopefully they can pull it out this week and heal up for the next 3 weeks until the Union game, which would turn out to be for pride and playoff seeding only.

Can't disagree with this at all. It's what they've ****ing done all year. ****ing rivalries in our league are great!

[Bartman]

In analyzing the RPI Engineers for this weekend's game with the Statesmen, I can characterize the RPI team as doing whatever it takes to win. This is despite the fact that they were outgained by their opponent in every game except the the blowout against 1-5 Buffalo State. In fact , against the Bombers they lost the yardage battle 418-162(Ithaca , how did you lose at home with this yardage advantage?....IC seemed to wear lead shoes in the redzone). This RPI rubberband defense is tough in the redzone and has 13 INTs on the year( 8 total against Allegheny and WPI). Their run defense is strong with only 506 yards against them , but 1,306 given up in the air shows some vulnerability. This undefeated team has a total yardage disadvantage against opponents of -151 yards( 1661 v. 1812). Their kicking game is decent and return game is very good. So ,how did they win all their games with such mediocre stats except for the 13-2 INT advantage? It seems the offense has made plays at the critical times of the game  and a defense that is carrying this team with a "bend don't break" approach that toughens in the red zone and is always lurking to pick a pass off.
  I am actually less scared of this ranked team after reviewing the stats. Hobart not only has a chance , but I believe a good chance on Saturday. Turnovers will be the key to the game and Hobart's redzone offense. I think the Hobart passing game will get their yards and the run game, even without Harvey,has shown improvement as our young Oline keeps improving. I also think Hobart has a special weapon in Kyle Hackett , and if Hobart wins, Kyle will be the difference if Hobart sputters in the redone(Hobart is 21-21 in redzone scoring this year). The Hobart defense is vulnerable to even a methodical offense like RPI, but they have improved week by week , and hopefully are at the peak of their ability.
  So, I am saying ...we have a decent chance in Troy....the Hobart coaching staff seemed to grow up in the Union game, DeWall  can start to earn a reputation with a win against RPI this Saturday.  Go Bart

To Dutch Boy this is the BIG game for RPI and will provide us with the most insight into how good they may be (within reason). Granted Hobart's season has not been impressive (by Hobart standards), especially with that mother****ing loss to Endicott, however Dutch Boy feels Bart has hit their stride and will be playing the best ball they are capable of this season come Saturday. League games are especially tough and can certainly bring out the best in teams. If RPI can't beat Hobart, hiccup or not, it tells Dutch they really aren't as good as some may think. IDBHO all the pressure sits on the Engineers this weekend. If they can stop fantasizing about Shirley in a G-String, focus, and win in a convincing manner, they might just really be top 20 worthy.

Dutch Boy,
        I just sent five girls named Shirley to Troy in search of the Engineer starters....I told the Shirleys when they find them.....just Distract, Distract, Distract....Triple Ds

[Oline89]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

So I am going to take a page from Mach's playbook here.  I know the talent level that is committing to play at Micro.  No matter what the standings are at end of the season in the MAC, there is no way that Misericordia/Micro is anywhere near the talent that Ithaca, Union, Hobart, RPI or St Lawrence puts on the field.   U of R would even give them a game.   Don't be surprised if they end the season 5-3 in their league.

[Jonny Utah]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

So I am going to take a page from Mach's playbook here.  I know the talent level that is committing to play at Micro.  No matter what the standings are at end of the season in the MAC, there is no way that Misericordia/Micro is anywhere near the talent that Ithaca, Union, Hobart, RPI or St Lawrence puts on the field.   U of R would even give them a game.   Don't be surprised if they end the season 5-3 in their league.

Yea I'm guessing the same thing.  They don't run the table and will not get a pool C now matter what.  But the comparative scores are similar to Del Val, and that is something to discuss.

[Machiavelli]

In analyzing the RPI Engineers for this weekend's game with the Statesmen, I can characterize the RPI team as doing whatever it takes to win. This is despite the fact that they were outgained by their opponent in every game except the the blowout against 1-5 Buffalo State. In fact , against the Bombers they lost the yardage battle 418-162(Ithaca , how did you lose at home with this yardage advantage?....IC seemed to wear lead shoes in the redzone). This RPI rubberband defense is tough in the redzone and has 13 INTs on the year( 8 total against Allegheny and WPI). Their run defense is strong with only 506 yards against them , but 1,306 given up in the air shows some vulnerability. This undefeated team has a total yardage disadvantage against opponents of -151 yards( 1661 v. 1812). Their kicking game is decent and return game is very good. So ,how did they win all their games with such mediocre stats except for the 13-2 INT advantage? It seems the offense has made plays at the critical times of the game  and a defense that is carrying this team with a "bend don't break" approach that toughens in the red zone and is always lurking to pick a pass off.
  I am actually less scared of this ranked team after reviewing the stats. Hobart not only has a chance , but I believe a good chance on Saturday. Turnovers will be the key to the game and Hobart's redzone offense. I think the Hobart passing game will get their yards and the run game, even without Harvey,has shown improvement as our young Oline keeps improving. I also think Hobart has a special weapon in Kyle Hackett , and if Hobart wins, Kyle will be the difference if Hobart sputters in the redone(Hobart is 21-21 in redzone scoring this year). The Hobart defense is vulnerable to even a methodical offense like RPI, but they have improved week by week , and hopefully are at the peak of their ability.
  So, I am saying ...we have a decent chance in Troy....the Hobart coaching staff seemed to grow up in the Union game, DeWall  can start to earn a reputation with a win against RPI this Saturday.  Go Bart

To Dutch Boy this is the BIG game for RPI and will provide us with the most insight into how good they may be (within reason). Granted Hobart's season has not been impressive (by Hobart standards), especially with that mother****ing loss to Endicott, however Dutch Boy feels Bart has hit their stride and will be playing the best ball they are capable of this season come Saturday. League games are especially tough and can certainly bring out the best in teams. If RPI can't beat Hobart, hiccup or not, it tells Dutch they really aren't as good as some may think. IDBHO all the pressure sits on the Engineers this weekend. If they can stop fantasizing about Shirley in a G-String, focus, and win in a convincing manner, they might just really be top 20 worthy.

Hobart ALWAYS scares the crap out of me. While RPI/Union was always the 'hated', 'other side of the river' rivalry, Hobart is and always has been the scariest and usually most contested game on both teams' schedules for the past 20 years. There have been some absolutely bizarre finishes. Hobart has beaten undefeated RPI teams before and vice/versa. Records are out the window.

While Sunday I may sing a different tune if things don't go in this direction, I get the distinct feeling that this RPI team has the uncanny ability to win in any form or fashion except in 'style'. They've played poorly and won close. They've play great and won close. They've played mediocre and won big. They are a bit all over the map but have had an ability to end up on the right side of the score. After the Wesley game last year, I think RPI has shown it can play with just about anyone from a pure toughness perspective and I think that carries them in these tough games. Hopefully they can pull it out this week and heal up for the next 3 weeks until the Union game, which would turn out to be for pride and playoff seeding only.

Can't disagree with this at all. It's what they've ****ing done all year. ****ing rivalries in our league are great!

This statement I believe is very much understated in the LL and E8. I felt this way in the HS football in my area when I was growing up that most of the teams had the ability to play the best teams close because, realistically, just about every team at one point has had success and these are ALL rivalry games within the conference. Ithaca is new to it now and is currently just a big game on everyone's schedule, but the rivalries of RPI, Union, Hobart, and even St. Lawrence go back a LONG time and give most in-conference games a CHANCE that they could be a dogfight. It's not this drastic OAC type situation where MUC has been good for so long that it's them and the rest. It really is any given Saturday in the E8 and LL most weeks and all victories are usually hard-earned no matter the score.

[Pat Coleman]

Misericordia(Microscope) is a team I keep clicking on, then I see the MMA loss and move on. I agree, MMA might be half decent, they were always tough and disciplined(obviously) when in the LL. MMA would probably beat W. Conn by 24-41. As much as I want to think the MAC is pretty good, you might be onto something here. Maybe Delaware Valley is equivalent to like MIT this year? They've been really good in the past so it's tough to absorb that, but it's entirely possible based on the results and they are just a tad bit better than the rest of the MAC so it makes the rest of the pack look better than they are because the games are closer.

The DVC/Micro non-matchup is just weird. There's gotta be a tie-breaker there right? Imagine if Micro wins it and DVC gets pool C? Can someone google this for me? Now i'm intrigued.

Not sure where I read it, but Del Val lost most of their defense from last year, and is one of the reasons they were not ranked as high this year in the preseason polls.  But they were the clear #2 last year.  I'm not sure how impressed we can be with Frostburgs playoff run, but I'm guessing the preseason polls took into account returning players.  The d3 pool is pretty accurate in that sense.

http://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2018/nobile-twins-freshmen-delaware-valley-defense-chemistry