FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

RPI beating WPI this wkd could be big for them down the stretch. In a 3 way tie scenario where say RPI loses to Hobart (who will be the home team), beats IC (at home on RPI's SR day) and IC beats HOB (Statesmen haven't been able to ever win at Butterfield); RPI would win the Pool A based on the teams with wins over .500 tiebreaker. Sub in Union for RPI and it's advantage IC, assuming they beat ALF and CORT.

My scenario for 2 LL teams making the NCAA, would be Ithaca undefeated and Hobart 9-1 with the loss to Ithaca at Butterfield. I say this, not because I think Hobart has qualified at such a level after one win over Brockport, but only for theoretical purposes, as I think all the top 4 teams in the LL are possible NCAA participants at this point in the season. The OOC matchups with E8 and NJAC teams (Hobart has Mville, Rowan and Monclair St.) will be critical for the 2 LL NCAA possibility.   

[ITH radio]

The main key for the LL is to have 2 teams high up on ERRs going into Wk 10 & 11. Hobart's schedule is easy after their bye, but IC, Union and RPI have games against each other late. Those wins over RROs will weigh heavy in the Pool C case as 8 AQs from the east probably means slim chance for a 9-1 team unless they have some wins in the RRO column.

[Oline89]

I would not discount Brockport so quickly, their defense is stellar.  As long as their starting QB returns, 8-9 wins is very possible.  Before the Hobart win, people were picking them to go 10-0.  If their QB really is injured, 5 wins more likely

[Machiavelli]

I would not discount Brockport so quickly, their defense is stellar.  As long as their starting QB returns, 8-9 wins is very possible.  Before the Hobart win, people were picking them to go 10-0.  If their QB really is injured, 5 wins more likely

I'm certainly not discounting Brockport, I just think after Week 1(the only evidence we have so far), there's a chance they have a down year. They have somewhat of a cupcake-ish schedule so even if they are half decent, they could win 6-7 games. There's also a chance Hobart is just an absolute juggernaut and just blew out a really good team as well. We don't know yet. Anything is possible. If you look at last year's Hobart/Brockport game, though, we thought right away Brockport was a beast and Hobart might have a tougher year and that played out. Every year is different, of course, but that's the week 1 assessment for me.

[NYfootball]

Does anyone have a link to the Hobart Brockport game? Its the only one i haven't found

[ITH radio]

Link? If you mean is the video from the game available as an archive, that's a no. HWS disables / hides game videos once broadcast.

[Jonny Utah]

I'm not sure about the two bids. It really depends how strong the E8 is.

Union's non E8 OOC looks awful. Hobart's not getting a lot of help so far from the NJAC, and a Mach says, who knows what we're gonna get from B-Port. Allegheny and Anna Maria won't be helping RPI.

The best bet might be a 9-1 IC. Alfred was 8-3 last year, and won impressively in Week 1. Ditto Cortland, who went 7-4. Heck, even Fisher took care of a team that waxed them the year before.

If those teams finish 1-2-3 in the E8, and IC beats them all, but loses to RPI, that might put them in. It helps, I think, that the IC-RPI game is late in the year. If both teams were undefeated, a close loss might not do a lot of damage.

Back to this conversation, Hobart is really the only LL team with solid OCC games in other regions besides upstate NY and New England.  Unless St. Vinny's or Allegheny end up being having winning records, the LL non conference games are tough to judge against national competition who are also going to be seeking Pool C bids.  I think your only shot is if a top LL team goes 9-1 (losing the LL) but also monkey stomping everyone along the way.  You also might need Hobart to take care of those NJAC teams to help everyone else as well.

[Ice Bear]

I'm not sure about the two bids. It really depends how strong the E8 is.

Union's non E8 OOC looks awful. Hobart's not getting a lot of help so far from the NJAC, and a Mach says, who knows what we're gonna get from B-Port. Allegheny and Anna Maria won't be helping RPI.

The best bet might be a 9-1 IC. Alfred was 8-3 last year, and won impressively in Week 1. Ditto Cortland, who went 7-4. Heck, even Fisher took care of a team that waxed them the year before.

If those teams finish 1-2-3 in the E8, and IC beats them all, but loses to RPI, that might put them in. It helps, I think, that the IC-RPI game is late in the year. If both teams were undefeated, a close loss might not do a lot of damage.

Back to this conversation, Hobart is really the only LL team with solid OCC games in other regions besides upstate NY and New England.  Unless St. Vinny's or Allegheny end up being having winning records, the LL non conference games are tough to judge against national competition who are also going to be seeking Pool C bids.  I think your only shot is if a top LL team goes 9-1 (losing the LL) but also monkey stomping everyone along the way.  You also might need Hobart to take care of those NJAC teams to help everyone else as well.

Ice Bear was certainly disappointed that both Montclair and Rowan lost. Ice Bear was hoping both would be undefeated (highly unlikely though with the Profs facing ****ing Linfield) come their run ins with Hobart. Ice Bear still feels Montclair will be solid and hopefully only lose to Hobart moving forward.

[Machiavelli]

I'm not sure about the two bids. It really depends how strong the E8 is.

Union's non E8 OOC looks awful. Hobart's not getting a lot of help so far from the NJAC, and a Mach says, who knows what we're gonna get from B-Port. Allegheny and Anna Maria won't be helping RPI.

The best bet might be a 9-1 IC. Alfred was 8-3 last year, and won impressively in Week 1. Ditto Cortland, who went 7-4. Heck, even Fisher took care of a team that waxed them the year before.

If those teams finish 1-2-3 in the E8, and IC beats them all, but loses to RPI, that might put them in. It helps, I think, that the IC-RPI game is late in the year. If both teams were undefeated, a close loss might not do a lot of damage.

Back to this conversation, Hobart is really the only LL team with solid OCC games in other regions besides upstate NY and New England.  Unless St. Vinny's or Allegheny end up being having winning records, the LL non conference games are tough to judge against national competition who are also going to be seeking Pool C bids.  I think your only shot is if a top LL team goes 9-1 (losing the LL) but also monkey stomping everyone along the way.  You also might need Hobart to take care of those NJAC teams to help everyone else as well.

Ice Bear was certainly disappointed that both Montclair and Rowan lost. Ice Bear was hoping both would be undefeated (highly unlikely though with the Profs facing ****ing Linfield) come their run ins with Hobart. Ice Bear still feels Montclair will be solid and hopefully only lose to Hobart moving forward.

Just checking out Rowan's schedule. Good chance they could start out 1-5. Tough schedule for sure.

Really curious as to why some think the NJAC is the top conference in the East though. Yes Wesley is very good and Salisbury should be good. But Montclair and Rowan may be mediocre and what else is there really? The bottom half or more of the NJAC is pretty awful.  I think the LL Top 4 can compete with Wesley and Salisbury this year. I just don't see it from a strength of conference standpoint as of right now. The E8 is tougher top to bottom as well.

[MRMIKESMITH]

I'm not sure about the two bids. It really depends how strong the E8 is.

Union's non E8 OOC looks awful. Hobart's not getting a lot of help so far from the NJAC, and a Mach says, who knows what we're gonna get from B-Port. Allegheny and Anna Maria won't be helping RPI.

The best bet might be a 9-1 IC. Alfred was 8-3 last year, and won impressively in Week 1. Ditto Cortland, who went 7-4. Heck, even Fisher took care of a team that waxed them the year before.

If those teams finish 1-2-3 in the E8, and IC beats them all, but loses to RPI, that might put them in. It helps, I think, that the IC-RPI game is late in the year. If both teams were undefeated, a close loss might not do a lot of damage.

Back to this conversation, Hobart is really the only LL team with solid OCC games in other regions besides upstate NY and New England.  Unless St. Vinny's or Allegheny end up being having winning records, the LL non conference games are tough to judge against national competition who are also going to be seeking Pool C bids.  I think your only shot is if a top LL team goes 9-1 (losing the LL) but also monkey stomping everyone along the way.  You also might need Hobart to take care of those NJAC teams to help everyone else as well.

Ice Bear was certainly disappointed that both Montclair and Rowan lost. Ice Bear was hoping both would be undefeated (highly unlikely though with the Profs facing ****ing Linfield) come their run ins with Hobart. Ice Bear still feels Montclair will be solid and hopefully only lose to Hobart moving forward.

Just checking out Rowan's schedule. Good chance they could start out 1-5. Tough schedule for sure.

Really curious as to why some think the NJAC is the top conference in the East though. Yes Wesley is very good and Salisbury should be good. But Montclair and Rowan may be mediocre and what else is there really? The bottom half or more of the NJAC is pretty awful.  I think the LL Top 4 can compete with Wesley and Salisbury this year. I just don't see it from a strength of conference standpoint as of right now. The E8 is tougher top to bottom as well.

Not so fast my friend...JK, you make some valid points. I think the addition of Wesley and Salisbury definitely increased the NJAC profile. However, as I recall Salisbury performed admirably when they were in the E8. With the exception of the last couple year's. Also, Wesley for a while was the best team in the region. Regarding the rest of the league, I think the addition of basically two playoff teams shouldn't devalue them. Remember before Salisbury, Frostburg, and Wesley joined the NJAC, the NJAC was holding their own year in and year out against regional opponents. With the exception of the Old E8, before you NY schools started playing musical chairs. I'd place the NJAC and old ACFC with the best of the OLD E8 any day.

[Machiavelli]

I'm not sure about the two bids. It really depends how strong the E8 is.

Union's non E8 OOC looks awful. Hobart's not getting a lot of help so far from the NJAC, and a Mach says, who knows what we're gonna get from B-Port. Allegheny and Anna Maria won't be helping RPI.

The best bet might be a 9-1 IC. Alfred was 8-3 last year, and won impressively in Week 1. Ditto Cortland, who went 7-4. Heck, even Fisher took care of a team that waxed them the year before.

If those teams finish 1-2-3 in the E8, and IC beats them all, but loses to RPI, that might put them in. It helps, I think, that the IC-RPI game is late in the year. If both teams were undefeated, a close loss might not do a lot of damage.

Back to this conversation, Hobart is really the only LL team with solid OCC games in other regions besides upstate NY and New England.  Unless St. Vinny's or Allegheny end up being having winning records, the LL non conference games are tough to judge against national competition who are also going to be seeking Pool C bids.  I think your only shot is if a top LL team goes 9-1 (losing the LL) but also monkey stomping everyone along the way.  You also might need Hobart to take care of those NJAC teams to help everyone else as well.

Ice Bear was certainly disappointed that both Montclair and Rowan lost. Ice Bear was hoping both would be undefeated (highly unlikely though with the Profs facing ****ing Linfield) come their run ins with Hobart. Ice Bear still feels Montclair will be solid and hopefully only lose to Hobart moving forward.

Just checking out Rowan's schedule. Good chance they could start out 1-5. Tough schedule for sure.

Really curious as to why some think the NJAC is the top conference in the East though. Yes Wesley is very good and Salisbury should be good. But Montclair and Rowan may be mediocre and what else is there really? The bottom half or more of the NJAC is pretty awful.  I think the LL Top 4 can compete with Wesley and Salisbury this year. I just don't see it from a strength of conference standpoint as of right now. The E8 is tougher top to bottom as well.

Not so fast my friend...JK, you make some valid points. I think the addition of Wesley and Salisbury definitely increased the NJAC profile. However, as I recall Salisbury performed admirably when they were in the E8. With the exception of the last couple year's. Also, Wesley for a while was the best team in the region. Regarding the rest of the league, I think the addition of basically two playoff teams shouldn't devalue them. Remember before Salisbury, Frostburg, and Wesley joined the NJAC, the NJAC was holding their own year in and year out against regional opponents. With the exception of the Old E8, before you NY schools started playing musical chairs. I'd place the NJAC and old ACFC with the best of the OLD E8 any day.

Yeah, I agree the top of the NJAC(Wesley and Salisbury) are at the top of the East(at least from historical performance). But it falls off pretty quickly after that. The LL has a solid 4(of 7) but Rochacha, St. Larry and Buff St will be really bad. This year I think the top of the E8 will be below the curve, but from top to bottom, it's definitely the most competitive conference. Very interested to see what Utica does this year. And I think the MAC has lost it's mojo. Anything in New England isn't worth being mentioned.

I guess it all depends on how you look at it. It's like saying the OAC is a top conference because of Mount Union but there's a lot of really bad teams out there. So from a national perspective, I'd put the LL and NJAC in an even heat this far in. Wesley has 4 tough games coming up. If they win those convincingly, they are back and will be a force. If not, maybe they are back to earth(including last year). Salisbury should only have 1 loss(unless they beat Wesley) because the schedule isn't really that tough.

[Bombers798891]

Really curious as to why some think the NJAC is the top conference in the East though. Yes Wesley is very good and Salisbury should be good. But Montclair and Rowan may be mediocre and what else is there really? The bottom half or more of the NJAC is pretty awful.  I think the LL Top 4 can compete with Wesley and Salisbury this year. I just don't see it from a strength of conference standpoint as of right now. The E8 is tougher top to bottom as well.

I guess it all depends what you value in strength.

Like, in the mid 2010s, the E8 would tout their strength because their bottom feeders were tough outs for the top teams, but I never considered it a strength that Fisher would have to come back against a 1-9 Frostburg, or that IC could lose to a 4-6 Burg team. I just saw it as proof that those top teams were flawed. I generally don't care what the bottom half of a conference does. But, everyone's mileage varies

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear also feels that the NJAC really shouldn't be ahead of the LL at this point. The LL is really top heavy and it seems to Ice Bear that this top four could prove to all be VERY VERY good in relation to the rest of the region. We shall see. Ice Bear has a feeling Wesley will be back but like Mach says we'll know for sure after a few weeks. It's almost a shame that U Rocha, SLU, and Buffalo State are struggling (especially the first two). Raymond made a hell of a dent in Canton only to see it fall the **** a apart after his leaving.

[Bombers798891]

I also just kind of want to see an LL team with an impressive win before I even think about two bids.

Westfield State, St. Vincent, and Allegheny are not a murderer's row of wins. And yes, it's fair to wonder what Brockport will have this year, given how terrible they were at QB in Week 1. That win by Hobart is great if it turn out that Port is still the class of the E8. It's less impressive if they're the third place team behind Alfred and Cortland. (And I've heard some good things about Fisher, particularly their transfer at RB).

[Ice Bear]

I also just kind of want to see an LL team with an impressive win before I even think about two bids.

Westfield State, St. Vincent, and Allegheny are not a murderer's row of wins. And yes, it's fair to wonder what Brockport will have this year, given how terrible they were at QB in Week 1. That win by Hobart is great if it turn out that Port is still the class of the E8. It's less impressive if they're the third place team behind Alfred and Cortland. (And I've heard some good things about Fisher, particularly their transfer at RB).

Ice Bear cannot argue with the above statement...very accurate.