FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

Cortaca breaks the record today:

https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/10/3/ithaca-and-cortland-set-division-iii-ncaa-football-attendance-record.aspx

I was amused by all this -- because in order to set an attendance record, the game has to actually get played. They have sold enough tickets to break the record* but there has to be an actual game so people can attend it.

* there is no official NCAA record for D-III single-game attendance. Everything anyone has said about Division III football single-game attendance in the past decade is based on research Keith and Adam and I have done:
https://www.d3football.com/notables/top-single-game-attendance

Special thanks for Cortland for recognizing this fact in their version of the Cortaca news release from today.

I noticed that immediately, too, in starting to read the article and I totally agree with you.  A couple of questions for you in regards to all this.  1) Does that mean that the NCAA Annual Records book published by the NCAA which lists each year by all the schools is based on the "estimated" self-reported attendance for the home games by each school? and 2) Why doesn't the NCAA recognize your work and that of the Target Stadium people at that St. Thomas/St. Johns game as the official record?  You certainly didn't fabricate the numbers and the stadium officials I can't believe wouldn't have given an inaccurate count for the total attendance.  That would be absurd.  Also-and I guess this is question 3)-does that mean that the NCAA doesn't recognize the nearly 12,000 in attendance, which BTW, was an accurate account, for the Hope/Calvin basketball game back in 2000 at Van Andle Arena in Grand Rapids, MI?

Anyway, it seems to me that common sense would dictate that for games at special venues like this at Metlife and Target Stadiums for DIII, that the NCAA would recognize the attendance by reputable people (and since they are accurate) as being the official records of attendance for those games.  But then, we all know the NCAA very commonly does not exercise common sense, and that is the truth.

Regardless, we all know that whatever the actual attendance is for the Ithaca/Cortland game there, it still be a great event.

I know that the Hope-Calvin game (1997, but close enough) was once in the NCAA record book, but in the past year or two when I went to look for it to confirm the date, I couldn't find a record for attendance in basketball either.

Yes, the team by team attendance that NCAA reports for D-III is based on those self-reported counts. I'm not saying those are necessarily bad, but I am as surprised as you that the NCAA hasn't at least taken the 2017 game and made it the official record.

[formerd3db]

Cortaca breaks the record today:

https://footballfoundation.org/news/2019/10/3/ithaca-and-cortland-set-division-iii-ncaa-football-attendance-record.aspx

I was amused by all this -- because in order to set an attendance record, the game has to actually get played. They have sold enough tickets to break the record* but there has to be an actual game so people can attend it.

* there is no official NCAA record for D-III single-game attendance. Everything anyone has said about Division III football single-game attendance in the past decade is based on research Keith and Adam and I have done:
https://www.d3football.com/notables/top-single-game-attendance

Special thanks for Cortland for recognizing this fact in their version of the Cortaca news release from today.

I noticed that immediately, too, in starting to read the article and I totally agree with you.  A couple of questions for you in regards to all this.  1) Does that mean that the NCAA Annual Records book published by the NCAA which lists each year by all the schools is based on the "estimated" self-reported attendance for the home games by each school? and 2) Why doesn't the NCAA recognize your work and that of the Target Stadium people at that St. Thomas/St. Johns game as the official record?  You certainly didn't fabricate the numbers and the stadium officials I can't believe wouldn't have given an inaccurate count for the total attendance.  That would be absurd.  Also-and I guess this is question 3)-does that mean that the NCAA doesn't recognize the nearly 12,000 in attendance, which BTW, was an accurate account, for the Hope/Calvin basketball game back in 2000 at Van Andle Arena in Grand Rapids, MI?

Anyway, it seems to me that common sense would dictate that for games at special venues like this at Metlife and Target Stadiums for DIII, that the NCAA would recognize the attendance by reputable people (and since they are accurate) as being the official records of attendance for those games.  But then, we all know the NCAA very commonly does not exercise common sense, and that is the truth.

Regardless, we all know that whatever the actual attendance is for the Ithaca/Cortland game there, it still be a great event.

I know that the Hope-Calvin game (1997, but close enough) was once in the NCAA record book, but in the past year or two when I went to look for it to confirm the date, I couldn't find a record for attendance in basketball either.

Yes, the team by team attendance that NCAA reports for D-III is based on those self-reported counts. I'm not saying those are necessarily bad, but I am as surprised as you that the NCAA hasn't at least taken the 2017 game and made it the official record.

I initially thought it was around 2000 without either checking Hope's basketball history page on the website or my own program collection.  But, in pulling out the latter, indeed you noted the correct year, 1997 (my, the years fly by. )  The actual date was January 29, 1997 at Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids, MI, a 70-56 Hope win.  And according to the official records at Hope and Calvin, that game established the NCAA Division III single-game attendance record and the actual official attendance is listed as 11,442 (there are some people who were at the game who claim that there was 12,000 in attendance.)  Yet, as you say, not only is it surprising the NCAA hasn't listed that 2017 football game as the official record at least to date, but also as to why they have stopped listing that basketball game as the highest attended game in the annual records book publication.   

[Bartman]

Ice Bear enjoys the LL being ranked the 7th best conference in D3 football by d3.com.

Ice Bear,
        Bartman says the increase in the D3 conference rankings is due to the the turnaround of the Dutchmen, the deep playoff run by RPI last year, the new member on Cayuga Lake and the Pumkinheads having a good start this year....everyone has contributed....a little help from the slight slippage in the NJAC and MAC was also a factor. Now , on to the LL race, and as for the Statesmen the first step is to silence the cannon at Bailey tomorrow.

[Bombers798891]

I was amused by all this -- because in order to set an attendance record, the game has to actually get played. They have sold enough tickets to break the record* but there has to be an actual game so people can attend it.

*Shrug* Looks like NCAA.com wrote their headline the same way in their story posted before the St. Thomas and St. John's game.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2017-09-21/minnesota-twins-target-field-host-highest-attended-division-iii

[Pat Coleman]

I was amused by all this -- because in order to set an attendance record, the game has to actually get played. They have sold enough tickets to break the record* but there has to be an actual game so people can attend it.

*Shrug* Looks like NCAA.com wrote their headline the same way in their story posted before the St. Thomas and St. John's game.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2017-09-21/minnesota-twins-target-field-host-highest-attended-division-iii

I know you know there is a difference between

"Target Field to host highest attended Division III football game"
and
"Ithaca and Cortland Set Division III NCAA Football Attendance Record"

Tenses be important.

[Bombers798891]

I was amused by all this -- because in order to set an attendance record, the game has to actually get played. They have sold enough tickets to break the record* but there has to be an actual game so people can attend it.

*Shrug* Looks like NCAA.com wrote their headline the same way in their story posted before the St. Thomas and St. John's game.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2017-09-21/minnesota-twins-target-field-host-highest-attended-division-iii

I know you know there is a difference between

"Target Field to host highest attended Division III football game"
and
"Ithaca and Cortland Set Division III NCAA Football Attendance Record"

Tenses be important.

Oh, you guys were going off the NFF article, and I was looking at the one by IC, which does use "to set". Too many tabs open on this story at once. Mea culpa

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear enjoys the LL being ranked the 7th best conference in D3 football by d3.com.

Ice Bear,
        Bartman says the increase in the D3 conference rankings is due to the the turnaround of the Dutchmen, the deep playoff run by RPI last year, the new member on Cayuga Lake and the Pumkinheads having a good start this year....everyone has contributed....a little help from the slight slippage in the NJAC and MAC was also a factor. Now , on to the LL race, and as for the Statesmen the first step is to silence the cannon at Bailey tomorrow.

Ice Bear is hopeful that this will be a great game manBart.

Ice Bear predicts a very intense and physical game. Ice Bear says the "tougher" team will win, meaning the more physical punishing team. Which team swarms the ball, wins the line with physicality and speed. IB believes/hopes it will be that type of game.

IB worries that Pumkins will come out super physical and set the tone and the Dutch will not be able to adjust as they haven't been called to adjust to the level of play Bart will bring.

IB says Bart wins 28-10.

Ice Bear hopes he is wrong and that the cannon emits Garnet colored napalm at least seven times...

[pumkinattack]

Well as opposed to most of your classmates and fellow slums who are into getting teabagged, it seems Ice Bear is doing a bit of reverse psychology sandbagging.

I can play that too.  Union comes out and beats up on a depleted and overrated Hobart team making us look like gimps and we lose 31-10.  I hope this doesn't happen but fear it will.

[Jonny Utah]

Well as opposed to most of your classmates and fellow slums who are into getting teabagged, it seems I've beat is doing a bit of reverse psychology sandbagging.

I can play that too.  Union comes out and beats up on a depleted and overrated Hobart team making us look like gimps and we lose 31-10.  I hope this doesn't happen but fear it will.

+k pumkin.

I think the bye week hurts Union and Hobart fights to a 24-10 win on the road.  Might be 24-17 on a late Union trick play.

[Bartman]

On the Game of the week: Bartman is making the drive to Bailey Field , but will miss the first quarter due to some domestic tasks before departing. Therefore, there shall be NO scoring by either team in the first quarter, so Bartman may witness all scores.  This is easier for Hobart as they have gotten out to slow starts this season, but adjusted in the second half to a 4-0 record. Union has not really been tested by super hard hitting that Hobart has had to endure this season, but that edge should fade once Bartman gets to the game and both teams have felt each other out. I am thinking both teams will try to take an early shot downfield and each is capable of executing. After that it is all about play calling and executing ......two years ago the Duthmen coaches called a great first half. This is a different coaching staff at Hobart that called a great game against Montclair State but couldn't get TDs on the first two well executed drives...tomorrow the Statesmen  must convert with TDs on red zone chances(having Hackett get another Special Team LL award for FGs is not necessarily good). 
Walking into Bailey makes Bartman nervous and just taking a breath is difficult in remembrance of the many hard fought games AND referees on Dutchmen payroll( Bartman noticed all refs wearing "Go Union" undershirts beneath their stripes in past contests), therefore , he does not buy Ice Bear's forecast, as the refs may try to be objective....but they just can not when it comes to Hobart.....Hobart has the fewest penalty yards in the LL thru 4 games, and if the penaty yards mount up tomorrow, you will understand what Bartman is saying.  Despite this, Hobart can have no excuses and must sing "Hip Hobart" in victory on Bailey no matter what hardships or injustices they must endure....it will make Bartman so happy that I will even let the refs keep wearing the "Go Union" undershirts in future games.

[Ice Bear]

Well as opposed to most of your classmates and fellow slums who are into getting teabagged, it seems Ice Bear is doing a bit of reverse psychology sandbagging.

I can play that too.  Union comes out and beats up on a depleted and overrated Hobart team making us look like gimps and we lose 31-10.  I hope this doesn't happen but fear it will.

Ice Bear ****s around often...but not with his picks.

Ice Bear believes that this game will be exactly what this group of Dutch need to find out what it takes to become elite in the east (which IB believes they have the personnel to be). IB knows what he saw against the Pride and until his beloved Dutch show him they can be physical and execute, he believes they will come out on the short end tomorrow against a VERY tough Hobart team that has already shown they are a top 3 east team (IB has them at #2 in his current ERFP).

Ice Bear is not sandbagging just being honest. He'll be hoping to eat crow in his igloo tomorrow following the contest.

[Ice Bear]

On the Game of the week: Bartman is making the drive to Bailey Field , but will miss the first quarter due to some domestic tasks before departing. Therefore, there shall be NO scoring by either team in the first quarter, so Bartman may witness all scores.  This is easier for Hobart as they have gotten out to slow starts this season, but adjusted in the second half to a 4-0 record. Union has not really been tested by super hard hitting that Hobart has had to endure this season, but that edge should fade once Bartman gets to the game and both teams have felt each other out. I am thinking both teams will try to take an early shot downfield and each is capable of executing. After that it is all about play calling and executing ......two years ago the Duthmen coaches called a great first half. This is a different coaching staff at Hobart that called a great game against Montclair State but couldn't get TDs on the first two well executed drives...tomorrow the Statesmen  must convert with TDs on red zone chances(having Hackett get another Special Team LL award for FGs is not necessarily good). 
Walking into Bailey makes Bartman nervous and just taking a breath is difficult in remembrance of the many hard fought games AND referees on Dutchmen payroll( Bartman noticed all refs wearing "Go Union" undershirts beneath their stripes in past contests), therefore , he does not buy Ice Bear's forecast, as the refs may try to be objective....but they just can not when it comes to Hobart.....Hobart has the fewest penalty yards in the LL thru 4 games, and if the penaty yards mount up tomorrow, you will understand what Bartman is saying.  Despite this, Hobart can have no excuses and must sing "Hip Hobart" in victory on Bailey no matter what hardships or injustices they must endure....it will make Bartman so happy that I will even let the refs keep wearing the "Go Union" undershirts in future games.

IB says D3 officials suck in Shocktown and everywhere D3 football is played. This is now what he comes to expect...350 pound overweight 65 year olds conferencing for ****ing 25 min between each play to discuss a roughing the kicker call when special teams weren't even on the field for said play. At this point it's just part of the game IIBHO...

[Bartman]

+k for IB experience. The last Hobart-MSU game must have run an extra 30 minutes just based on "conferences" by the refs. Hoping for offsetting bad calls may be all we can hope for, although for the record,  Bartman has no problem with 350 pound 65 year old refs...... if they make good calls......

[UfanBill]

+k for IB experience. The last Hobart-MSU game must have run an extra 30 minutes just based on "conferences" by the refs. Hoping for offsetting bad calls may be all we can hope for, although for the record,  Bartman has no problem with 350 pound 65 year old refs..... if they make good calls......

Yeah but back in their "glory days" these guys looked intimidating getting off the bus for their high school team. 

[pumkinattack]

Now they wear bills starter jackets and have Ditka mustaches as they chow down on some form of corned beef for breakfast and lunch with some beef for dinner.  Sausage for dessert.