FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

Last Saturday, there were 18 games played that featured Top 25 teams, and I don't even know how many featuring teams that were also receiving votes, and other fringe teams a voter may want to consider.

It just seems like figuring out a national poll is probably orders of magnitude harder than we're giving it credit for. It's pretty easy for all of us to point out the one or two things we don't agree with, particularly when it relates to one of the half-dozen teams we follow closely. Sure, we might be able to pretty easily say "Huh, RPI is 4-2 and someone thinks they're Top 25?" or "I don't think IC is that much better than the rest of the LL." But the national picture? Forget it.

Pat asked me to be a guest picker one week for the site, and it was incredibly stressful, and all I could think about was "Please don't let me pick some North Region upset that I don't realize is the East equivalent  of Hartwick beating Brockport." If fact, I think I gave him permission to change my pick if he realized I did that.

Very reasonable points, I think I could do the East , but I could totally screw up the other regions and a national poll without making it a full time job to satisfy myself I was being fair .

[UfanBill]

Something we've probably all read but let me quote..."The D3football.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Points are awarded on a 25-24-23-22-etc. basis."...I've asked Pat about revealing the identity of the pollsters and he rightfully said they remain anonymous to keep them happy and participating, but he did say all regions of the country are equally represented.  I'd like to remind everyone that the national poll is released on Sunday evening before any regional polls are posted; and all the regions have their own poll, even a specific New England (not D3football related) thus voters are unable to see what regional fans might say about the teams they would be expected to more closely follow. My point is some pollsters tend to be a week behind. It will even out.

As a Union fan I would like to see them get more recognition in the poll but with wins that will come. I believe the last time the Dutchmen were Top 25 ranked was the final week of  2006 week 2 of 2009 when they were ranked 25th 22nd.

Update...Union is ranked 25th in this week's AFCA D3 poll. Ithaca is 8th.

[Bartman]

UfanBill,
      Just beat the Larries by 3 touchdowns and you're in😀, but if Hobart beats Ithaca the U will be ranked below Hobart because.....well, just because

[wesleydad]

Love the discussion and I think Wesley is way overrated at 15.  I am not sure if they should even be in the top 25 based on what I have seen this year.  Past bias certainly plays into it.

[Bartman]

Love the discussion and I think Wesley is way overrated at 15.  I am not sure if they should even be in the top 25 based on what I have seen this year.  Past bias certainly plays into it.

Wesleydad , always informed and objective. I will say I have watched the Wolverines in past years that had smothering defenses and efficient offenses ( both running and passing), but this year's team seems a bit off from the glory years. As far as the LL rankings,  I know Union is good because we played them and they are legit, no excuses. Ithaca at #9 seems a bit inflated based on the schedule to date, but this Saturday will be the measuring stick. The rankings don't mean much until the NCAA Regional rankings sort things out. I was selfishly looking for Hobart's NJAC opponents  Montclair and Rowan to upset Salisbury and Wesley to help our SOS stats, but you both escaped with  wins. Looks like the NJAC is very tight this year in talent , I know the 2 we played were very physical .Good luck to the Wolverines the rest of the way.

[Bartman]

Bartman moves up to 26-6 on the LL picking season after 3-0 week, and LL remains 15-11 in OOC games




Hobart               17 (41)      RPI                   14 (27)        GAME OF THE WEEK: A defensive slug fest , could go either way. Hobart stays alive for Buttermilk  Engineers are  soft as Hobart ahead 38-7 in fourth quarter before garbage time.

Ithaca                42(48)     Buffalo State      14(14)     The Germ continues to pad his stats CHECK

Union                45 (47)     Yellowjackets      7(19)       Union gets everyone involved but loses the shutout CHECK

WEEK 7:

Rochester           28                      Buffalo State       27             Yellowjackets get first sting,  missed PAT separates these young teams

Union                 42                      St. Lawrence       17             Union only has problems defending the pass  on a couple of series

Ithaca                   33                    Hobart                35                GOTW:The Germ  throws for 400+ but Hobart D slows IC down in the Redzone as they settle for 4 FGs, while Hobart gets 5 TDs  for the historic upset
                                         

[Bartman]

Congratulations to this weeks Award winners:

Offensive Performer of the Week: Ray Conley, Hobart
Defensive Performer of the Week: Emmett Forde, Hobart
Special Teams Performer of the Week: Kyle Hackett, Hobart
Rookie of the Week: Nicholas Bahamonde, Ithaca
Honor Roll: Jordan Evert, Buffalo State; Nick Garone, Ithaca; Ike Irabor, Union; Cass Knox, Union; Andrew Vito, Ithaca

One of the reasons for the Hobart improvement on defense is Emmett Forde, a 5'9" 195 pounder that is fast, agile and hits live a brick. So far this season he has 53 tackles( 27 solo), 15.5 TFL's for 58 yards, 4 sacks, 2 Interceptions (for 71 return yards) and 2 forced fumbles. The 3-4 defense allows the Hobart LBs to get stats as the DEs give their bodies up on many plays, but these stats are crazy good....but more importantly, Emmett seems to make plays when it counts.

[Jonny Utah]

Congratulations to this weeks Award winners:

Offensive Performer of the Week: Ray Conley, Hobart
Defensive Performer of the Week: Emmett Forde, Hobart
Special Teams Performer of the Week: Kyle Hackett, Hobart
Rookie of the Week: Nicholas Bahamonde, Ithaca
Honor Roll: Jordan Evert, Buffalo State; Nick Garone, Ithaca; Ike Irabor, Union; Cass Knox, Union; Andrew Vito, Ithaca

One of the reasons for the Hobart improvement on defense is Emmett Forde, a 5'9" 195 pounder that is fast, agile and hits live a brick. So far this season he has 53 tackles( 27 solo), 15.5 TFL's for 58 yards, 4 sacks, 2 Interceptions (for 71 return yards) and 2 forced fumbles. The 3-4 defense allows the Hobart LBs to get stats as the DEs give their bodies up on many plays, but these stats are crazy good....but more importantly, Emmett seems to make plays when it counts.

I played OLB in a 3-4 my first two years at Ithaca.  What a great position.  Usually only worrying about a TE or a WR and worst case some chump fullback.  Also a lot of option back in the 1990s  and that was always fun to slow play the option.

[Oline89]

Congratulations to this weeks Award winners:

Offensive Performer of the Week: Ray Conley, Hobart
Defensive Performer of the Week: Emmett Forde, Hobart
Special Teams Performer of the Week: Kyle Hackett, Hobart
Rookie of the Week: Nicholas Bahamonde, Ithaca
Honor Roll: Jordan Evert, Buffalo State; Nick Garone, Ithaca; Ike Irabor, Union; Cass Knox, Union; Andrew Vito, Ithaca

One of the reasons for the Hobart improvement on defense is Emmett Forde, a 5'9" 195 pounder that is fast, agile and hits live a brick. So far this season he has 53 tackles( 27 solo), 15.5 TFL's for 58 yards, 4 sacks, 2 Interceptions (for 71 return yards) and 2 forced fumbles. The 3-4 defense allows the Hobart LBs to get stats as the DEs give their bodies up on many plays, but these stats are crazy good....but more importantly, Emmett seems to make plays when it counts.

Thanks for recognizing the DE's that are taking on both the  OT and OG, opens everything up for the OLB's to make the big plays!!

[Bombers798891]

Excited to see IC enter the tougher portion of their schedule (well, Rochester is next week, but still).

This, like all games for them now, is a must-win for Hobart, though they are still going to need a lot of help to either engineer a three way tie (what is the tiebreak in that case?) or get Union to lose twice.

For IC, a win sets them up for a 7-0 vs. 7-0 clash against Union (I'll apologize to Rochester, St. Lawrence, or Buff State if I'm proven wrong) which would be a huge game for the perception of the LL. Union's  getting some in the polls, and although wins over St. Lawrence and Buff State won't likely make us think they're any more dangerous than they already are, they'll hopefully float a bit more.

And you're a Bart or Union fan disappointed that they're not getting the love you think the team deserves, IC is going to be right there for the taking.

What will be interesting to me is what happens after a possible Hobart win. While I think we're all in agreement that the Bombers are a very good team, particularly on offense, we've debated a bit why IC is ranked so high.

Are they just benefitting from some hype and undefeated float, waiting to get flushed like the 2014 team was (ranked #13 at 4-0 before being completely dropped from the rankings after a home loss to Buff State), which might hurt the perception of the win from Bart's perspective? Or would the Bombers still be considered a dangerous team and the Hobart win a testament to what the Statesmen have going for them this year—which would also elevate Union by proxy?

Lots of fun stuff to think about

[ITH radio]

The LL tiebreaker is basically H2h, next level is wins over teams that are .500 plus.

In the event we had a Hobart, Ithaca, Union pile up at 9-1 (assuming the Hobart Beats IC, lost to Union, IC beats Union scenario - if Union ends 9-1 bc they lose the Shoes game, they still get the AQ with wins over HOB & IC. I suppose this is the same if IC ends up 8-2 just with a loss to Cort), then here's what helps each team's case:

HOB - BP, RPI. X factor is MSU - MSU needs beat CNU and ROW, otherwise no help for HOB there.
IC - Alfred, RPI, Cortland. X factor is SJF, at 3-3 now, but has to beat Cortland or Alfred to make it to 6-4.
UNI - RPI, HOB. X factors SC and Utica both are .500 now but have a cpl tough games remaining, both could end up 5-5 or worse.

[Jonny Utah]

The LL tiebreaker is basically H2h, next level is wins over teams that are .500 plus.

In the event we had a Hobart, Ithaca, Union pile up at 9-1 (assuming the Hobart Beats IC, lost to Union, IC beats Union scenario - if Union ends 9-1 bc they lose the Shoes game, they still get the AQ with wins over HOB & IC), then here's what helps each team's case:

HOB - BP, RPI. X factor is MSU - MSU needs beat CNU and ROW, otherwise no help for HOB there.
IC - Alfred, RPI, Cortland. X factor is SJF, at 3-3 now, but has to beat Cortland or Alfred to make it to 6-4.
UNI - RPI, HOB. X factors SC and Utica both are .500 now but have a cpl tough games remaining, both could end up 5-5 or worse.

Yea still tough to figure out.  Union has the hardest time as Utica def has some tough games remaining.  IC has the best shot there at first glance.  But then it would go to the next tie breaker right (If Hobart and IC tie) ? 

Ithaca: 
Winning Records: Alfred, Cortland,
Maybe: SJF
No Chance: St. Vincent

Hobart:
Winners: Brockport,
Maybe: Montclair
No Chance: Rowan, Morrisville

Union: 
Winners: No clear winners
Maybe: Springfield probably, Utica
No Chance: Westfield, Anna Maria

[Jonny Utah]

The LL tiebreaker is basically H2h, next level is wins over teams that are .500 plus.

In the event we had a Hobart, Ithaca, Union pile up at 9-1 (assuming the Hobart Beats IC, lost to Union, IC beats Union scenario - if Union ends 9-1 bc they lose the Shoes game, they still get the AQ with wins over HOB & IC), then here's what helps each team's case:

HOB - BP, RPI. X factor is MSU - MSU needs beat CNU and ROW, otherwise no help for HOB there.
IC - Alfred, RPI, Cortland. X factor is SJF, at 3-3 now, but has to beat Cortland or Alfred to make it to 6-4.
UNI - RPI, HOB. X factors SC and Utica both are .500 now but have a cpl tough games remaining, both could end up 5-5 or worse.
[/quote

Still trying to figure out who was smarter, Union playing beatable, but good teams (Springfield) or Hobart/Ithaca playing difficult teams (Brockport/ALfred/Cortland/MSU)

Good question.  Probably need a good balance.  Can't play all tough teams but you can't play all cupcakes either. 

[Oline89]

The LL tiebreaker is basically H2h, next level is wins over teams that are .500 plus.

In the event we had a Hobart, Ithaca, Union pile up at 9-1 (assuming the Hobart Beats IC, lost to Union, IC beats Union scenario - if Union ends 9-1 bc they lose the Shoes game, they still get the AQ with wins over HOB & IC. I suppose this is the same if IC ends up 8-2 just with a loss to Cort), then here's what helps each team's case:

HOB - BP, RPI. X factor is MSU - MSU needs beat CNU and ROW, otherwise no help for HOB there.
IC - Alfred, RPI, Cortland. X factor is SJF, at 3-3 now, but has to beat Cortland or Alfred to make it to 6-4.
UNI - RPI, HOB. X factors SC and Utica both are .500 now but have a cpl tough games remaining, both could end up 5-5 or worse.

Still trying to figure out who was smarter, Union playing beatable, but good teams (Springfield) or Hobart/Ithaca playing difficult teams (Brockport/ALfred/Cortland/MSU)

[Bombers798891]

The LL tiebreaker is basically H2h, next level is wins over teams that are .500 plus.

In the event we had a Hobart, Ithaca, Union pile up at 9-1 (assuming the Hobart Beats IC, lost to Union, IC beats Union scenario - if Union ends 9-1 bc they lose the Shoes game, they still get the AQ with wins over HOB & IC. I suppose this is the same if IC ends up 8-2 just with a loss to Cort), then here's what helps each team's case:

HOB - BP, RPI. X factor is MSU - MSU needs beat CNU and ROW, otherwise no help for HOB there.
IC - Alfred, RPI, Cortland. X factor is SJF, at 3-3 now, but has to beat Cortland or Alfred to make it to 6-4.
UNI - RPI, HOB. X factors SC and Utica both are .500 now but have a cpl tough games remaining, both could end up 5-5 or worse.

Your list leaves out IC's win over Union