FB: Liberty League

[Jonny Utah]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

I am willing to concede the targeting call at this point, on the field it was a loud, violent hit and justified a flag under today's rules.  It did look like the the Hobart player "launched" himself, and probably, worst of all, he didn't wrap his arms and made the hit with his shoulder/forearm only.  Regarding the holding, wrong wrong wrong.  There are legal ways to block, even modified/acceptable ways, hands no longer have to be inside the numbers, hooking arms now gets over looked.  However, grabbing jerseys and both hands holding onto shoulder pads can't be allowed, especially if it affects the play.  I agree that a few more calls wouldn't have affected the outcome, it was IC's day. Both coaches and the refs needed to do better controlling the extracurricular BS.

I've watched the Union targeting call 50 times.  The Union safety didn't leave his feet, didn't put down his head, didn't "launch" and didn't make contact with the Larry's player's head (it was close tough).  The Larry WR was "defenseless" though and it was a hard hit on a defenseless player. 

I saw the Hobart Forde hit twice.  It looked like Forde had his head down and "launched".  I don't think it was head to head contact but if you look up that targeting rule, the launching, head down, etc has it's own penalty.  I'm guessing that is what they went on there. 

[Oline89]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

I am willing to concede the targeting call at this point, on the field it was a loud, violent hit and justified a flag under today's rules.  It did look like the the Hobart player "launched" himself, and probably, worst of all, he didn't wrap his arms and made the hit with his shoulder/forearm only.  Regarding the holding, wrong wrong wrong.  There are legal ways to block, even modified/acceptable ways, hands no longer have to be inside the numbers, hooking arms now gets over looked.  However, grabbing jerseys and both hands holding onto shoulder pads can't be allowed, especially if it affects the play.  I agree that a few more calls wouldn't have affected the outcome, it was IC's day. Both coaches and the refs needed to do better controlling the extracurricular BS.

I've watched the Union targeting call 50 times.  The Union safety didn't leave his feet, didn't put down his head, didn't "launch" and didn't make contact with the Larry's player's head (it was close tough).  The Larry WR was "defenseless" though and it was a hard hit on a defenseless player. 

I saw the Hobart Forde hit twice.  It looked like Forde had his head down and "launched".  I don't think it was head to head contact but if you look up that targeting rule, the launching, head down, etc has it's own penalty.  I'm guessing that is what they went on there.

Like I said earlier, I agree that he launched.  As far as I read, the rule states to be targeting it has to be head or neck contact.  Not sure I saw that.  Either way it was a violent hit and the Hobart's kid body language afterwards wasn't great.  Definitely unsportsmanlike

[Ice Bear]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

Ice Bear is SUPER happy your back Bombers...+k pal.

[wally_wabash]

+K from me, Bombers.  PP is better with your input.  Thanks for logging back in. 

Onto bigger picture items:

1. IC's ranking: I think we're all aware that undefeated teams in the East can float up the rankings and not be a serious Stagg contender.

Cortland was 7th in the country in 2008, and a 41-14 loss to Mount was looming.
Hobart was 7th in the country in 2012 and a 47-7 loss to St. Thomas awaited them.
Hobart was 8th in the country in 2013 and they couldn't even get out of the East, as Fisher beat them 27-6 at home
Hobart was 9th in the country in 2014 and lost 41-13 points to Wesley

So it's not like there's no precedent for this to happen with IC. Even if the Bombers' ultimate fate is a monkeystomp by some team from the Midwest, it doesn't make their ranking unjustified, any more than Hobart getting waxed in their playoff losses made theirs unjustified.

There's a reason there's zero parity in this division, and it's because the top teams from other regions almost never lose, and they certainly don't do it to teams from Upstate NY. Fisher couldn't beat them back in '06-'07. Hobart couldn't do it from '12-'14. Cortland couldn't do it in '08. Brockport couldn't beat them in '17. If IC does it this year, we'll all be justifiably stunned. But not doing it is hardly some major flaw.

Agree with all of this.  It seems logical that a team ranked 7th or 8th would be in a position to push teams ranked in the top 3-4, but the reality is that the difference between poll positions isn't fixed or graduated regularly.  There's a gigantic gap between those top 3-4 (or, frankly the top 2 currently) and the rest. 

[Ice Bear]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

I am willing to concede the targeting call at this point, on the field it was a loud, violent hit and justified a flag under today's rules.  It did look like the the Hobart player "launched" himself, and probably, worst of all, he didn't wrap his arms and made the hit with his shoulder/forearm only.  Regarding the holding, wrong wrong wrong.  There are legal ways to block, even modified/acceptable ways, hands no longer have to be inside the numbers, hooking arms now gets over looked.  However, grabbing jerseys and both hands holding onto shoulder pads can't be allowed, especially if it affects the play.  I agree that a few more calls wouldn't have affected the outcome, it was IC's day. Both coaches and the refs needed to do better controlling the extracurricular BS.

I've watched the Union targeting call 50 times.  The Union safety didn't leave his feet, didn't put down his head, didn't "launch" and didn't make contact with the Larry's player's head (it was close tough).  The Larry WR was "defenseless" though and it was a hard hit on a defenseless player. 

I saw the Hobart Forde hit twice.  It looked like Forde had his head down and "launched".  I don't think it was head to head contact but if you look up that targeting rule, the launching, head down, etc has it's own penalty.  I'm guessing that is what they went on there.

Ice is never great at assessing these but man St. Pierre's hit on the SLU kid was violent as hell. Not saying it was wrong all together, but Ice agrees the WR was defenseless. The hit happened about 40 feet from Ice and as fast as it was Ice immediately said to Papa Ice and Ufan that it was going to be a targeting call and St. Pierre was getting booted. Ice didn't even argue the call, nor did any of us old school U fans (if Ice remembers correctly). Ice was glad to see the officials reviewed the call and made what Ice guesses (taking their word for it) the right call and returned St. Pierre to the field. However, Ice would certainly understand a SLU fan being irate at this occurrence as that was a super intense hit that everyone heard and almost felt. Ice was glad the SLU player was Ok (which is the most important thing).

Ice is big on St.Pierre and his physicality. Hopefully he'll keep himself composed and continue to learn in the next 2 1/2 years. Kid can be a big impact player in the secondary.

[Jonny Utah]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

I am willing to concede the targeting call at this point, on the field it was a loud, violent hit and justified a flag under today's rules.  It did look like the the Hobart player "launched" himself, and probably, worst of all, he didn't wrap his arms and made the hit with his shoulder/forearm only.  Regarding the holding, wrong wrong wrong.  There are legal ways to block, even modified/acceptable ways, hands no longer have to be inside the numbers, hooking arms now gets over looked.  However, grabbing jerseys and both hands holding onto shoulder pads can't be allowed, especially if it affects the play.  I agree that a few more calls wouldn't have affected the outcome, it was IC's day. Both coaches and the refs needed to do better controlling the extracurricular BS.

I've watched the Union targeting call 50 times.  The Union safety didn't leave his feet, didn't put down his head, didn't "launch" and didn't make contact with the Larry's player's head (it was close tough).  The Larry WR was "defenseless" though and it was a hard hit on a defenseless player. 

I saw the Hobart Forde hit twice.  It looked like Forde had his head down and "launched".  I don't think it was head to head contact but if you look up that targeting rule, the launching, head down, etc has it's own penalty.  I'm guessing that is what they went on there.

Like I said earlier, I agree that he launched.  As far as I read, the rule states to be targeting it has to be head or neck contact.  Not sure I saw that.  Either way it was a violent hit and the Hobart's kid body language afterwards wasn't great.  Definitely unsportsmanlike

Yea that's why I'm not even sure there has to be head to head contact or not.  I really don't have a good grasp on this rule and you have to pay to get the actual NCAA rule book online so there are just a bunch of articles on the topic.

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)

No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul.

One of the indicators of targeting: Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet.

[Bartman]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

Former Bombers,
      +k for coming back, Pat should give you full rights and privileges as you have always been a sane and valued contributor .
Thanks for saying Hobart is not as bad as the 34-0 score, but we usually come out strong in the second half and that did not happen. We executed poorly in the second half, made the IC defense look like the Patriots  and Hobart,the least penalized team in the LL ,played out of character at times . Bottom line, IC is the better team this year especially with  Germinerio. Hobart frustrated Joe on the first 2 series(fumble), and we ran the ball well for a few first downs, but could not sustain the effort and certainly not the execution.
      As far as holding calls, it was obvious at times,IMO, but if the refs let you get away with it, then that sets the standard for the game. Butterfield gives the visitors a close view of the action and when the jerseys of the DE and NT are pulled tight you know the OLineman know how to grab just the right way to keep it out of the  view of the refs, but some were very obvious. It did not change the final outcome but it did contribute to the frustration.
       The chippy play was evident on both sides . You know its bad when Hobart's #15 argued an unsportsmanlike call and got a second flag, was tossed and quite a few of the IC team on the sidelines warmly waived good-bye( a team unsportsmanlike that was not called , but the game was over anyway ). I wouldn't want future Hobart-Ithaca games to be as chippy as some of the old Union-Hobart games..... this leaves a bad taste and selective memories.
        Good luck Ithaca ,the rest of the way, you only have a handful of games left to enjoy the  Germ to Gladney combo and their teammates special season as long as it lasts. We will see the Bombers at the Boz next year for a battle of football mortals.

[Doid23]

2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

Welcome back Bombers, +K.
Watching my sons team, there is a parent that's kid plays D End, and he and his wife scream "C'mon Ref, call the holding" on almost every single play. No matter how I try, they always find a seat near me. I find myself almost hoping that their kid gets dragged down by an OT, and the refs don't call it, just so that they can implode.

[Ithaca798891]

I guess my stance on holding wasn't really about this game, but holding in general.

Targeting? A rare occurrence (thankfully) that might pop up once or twice a season for a team.

Was a guy in or out of bounds on that touchdown?  While it also came up in this game, you might get one or two of those 50-50 calls every game

But teams run 130-150 plays between them, each of which features many, many people blocking. There are probably a thousand blocks in any given game when you factor in downfield stuff. Holding is simply something that happens, and you're not going to catch and call all of them, or possibly even most. That's not to say egregious misses aren't an issue. But it's just something that's going to happen. Some weeks it will hurt you. Other weeks it may help you. But I just can't get worked up over them, no matter what side I'm on. Which, perhaps, is easy for me to say if you feel Ithaca's been on the beneficial end of things. But I promise you, it's my stance 100% of the time.

The unsportsmanlike stuff, it was just a bummer all around. I wasn't down there, I don't know who said what and when. I just hate it, because it distracts from an otherwise well-played game. I agree though that I would not want to be the referee for next year's tilt.

[Ice Bear]

I guess my stance on holding wasn't really about this game, but holding in general.

Targeting? A rare occurrence (thankfully) that might pop up once or twice a season for a team.

Was a guy in or out of bounds on that touchdown?  While it also came up in this game, you might get one or two of those 50-50 calls every game

But teams run 130-150 plays between them, each of which features many, many people blocking. There are probably a thousand blocks in any given game when you factor in downfield stuff. Holding is simply something that happens, and you're not going to catch and call all of them, or possibly even most. That's not to say egregious misses aren't an issue. But it's just something that's going to happen. Some weeks it will hurt you. Other weeks it may help you. But I just can't get worked up over them, no matter what side I'm on. Which, perhaps, is easy for me to say if you feel Ithaca's been on the beneficial end of things. But I promise you, it's my stance 100% of the time.

The unsportsmanlike stuff, it was just a bummer all around. I wasn't down there, I don't know who said what and when. I just hate it, because it distracts from an otherwise well-played game. I agree though that I would not want to be the referee for next year's tilt.

Ice says yes. While this can be hard to take when frustrated and losing this is certainly the truth and over the decades Ice has been watching Union football he's seen this very statement come to fruition. Holding happens all the time. Ice certainly wouldn't want to be a ref and have to choose when to call them. Maybe it's just when it's so blatant that the official feels they must call it. Certainly not easy and can have an impact on games.

[Bartman]

Bad pick week going 1-2 and 27-8 on the season. The LL is still 15-11 OOC.

Picks for WEEK 8:

RPI                35                     St. Lawrence                24                         Either RPI comes back strong after bye week( my pick) or the Larries surprise the Engineers through the air.

Union             42                     Buff State                     10                         Dutchmen easily stay undefeated.

Ithaca            52                     Rochester                        7                         A stats filled first half for the Bombers, but the Yellowjackets escape the shutout


Get ready for the clash of Union v. Ithaca on November 2 at 1pm at Butterball Bowl

[UfanBill]

Holding

I was a lineman when I played, all 6'0" 200 lbs. of me. and relied on technique. footwork  and quickness off the ball to get the job done. Back then, last century , we couldn't use our hands at all when blocking. You were taught to lead with your head, slide to your shoulder and use your arms as a "chicken wing" to move your opponent while keeping your hands in. Keep a wide base, drive with your legs and stay with your man 'til the whistle. It wasn't easy but it worked. Boy would I have loved to be able to shove someone.

Now players can use their hands to control the opponent. Refs also give you lots of leeway to grab some jersey. Still if you're holding it's largely because your technique is wrong, you're footwork is wrong, you're too slow, not strong enough or just not able to sustain the effort. Often you're getting beat, so you reach. There's so much more to the job than just pushing someone. You might notice the D-lineman move around. They sometimes lineup on your nose, sometimes inside, sometimes outside... jump a gap, stunt or loop, and just when you're controlling your guy, whoa here comes a blitzing LB or safety. Overall, man it's just hard! I have a ton of respect for the O-linemen. A good O-line is the most important part of a successful football team.

Most of you guys have played the game and know all this. IMO refs are very aware that they could call holding on every play. They don't want to. They'll tell you they will sometimes let it go if it doesn't affect the play. Trouble is they have to make an immediate call. You can't see the future. Most times the flag's noticed well after the play is over. All too often a big play. Every time a play is called back by penalty, holding or whatever, there's going to be one side happy the other not. Fans react. The refs hear it. It's all part of this great game.       

[Bengalsrule]

*All this means nothing to IB unless Union takes care of business against Buffalo State. Union loses next week it takes a **** load of luster out of this game for IB and in IBHO the league as a whole. You lose to Buff State (no offense meant here) you are not winning for the first time at Butterfield the nest week.

No offense taken from this Bengal loyalists.  However beware, my BENGALS got thier first taste of victory last week.  Beware!

GO BENGALS!

Bengalsrule....Looking forward to Hobart v. Bengals on Senior day on 11/9 at the Boz

Plus k there !!!

[Jonny Utah]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

Former Bombers,
      +k for coming back, Pat should give you full rights and privileges as you have always been a sane and valued contributor .
Thanks for saying Hobart is not as bad as the 34-0 score, but we usually come out strong in the second half and that did not happen. We executed poorly in the second half, made the IC defense look like the Patriots  and Hobart,the least penalized team in the LL ,played out of character at times . Bottom line, IC is the better team this year especially with  Germinerio. Hobart frustrated Joe on the first 2 series(fumble), and we ran the ball well for a few first downs, but could not sustain the effort and certainly not the execution.
      As far as holding calls, it was obvious at times,IMO, but if the refs let you get away with it, then that sets the standard for the game. Butterfield gives the visitors a close view of the action and when the jerseys of the DE and NT are pulled tight you know the OLineman know how to grab just the right way to keep it out of the  view of the refs, but some were very obvious. It did not change the final outcome but it did contribute to the frustration.
       The chippy play was evident on both sides . You know its bad when Hobart's #15 argued an unsportsmanlike call and got a second flag, was tossed and quite a few of the IC team on the sidelines warmly waived good-bye( a team unsportsmanlike that was not called , but the game was over anyway ). I wouldn't want future Hobart-Ithaca games to be as chippy as some of the old Union-Hobart games..... this leaves a bad taste and selective memories.
        Good luck Ithaca ,the rest of the way, you only have a handful of games left to enjoy the  Germ to Gladney combo and their teammates special season as long as it lasts. We will see the Bombers at the Boz next year for a battle of football mortals.

To add to this, it might be safe to say that Hobart has the best defense in the league.  In terms of the chippy play, I think Hobart had to do something different than what they did in the 1st quarter of that Union game.  The coaching staff needed to get them fired up and they were fired up.  The only real dirty play I saw was the Hobart DL adding that clear extra shove when the IC player was out of bounds on the ground on the IC bench.  And even that wasn't a play that would have risked injury for anyone, it was more of a frustration type play.

I'll give you an interesting fact:  I coached against Ike Irabor and Emmett Forde when they played in High School.  I am shocked (I guess I shouldn't be I was in the same boat) that both of these guys have done so well where they are.  Ike was a solid back but I never thought he would start at a top notch d3 program as a freshman.  Forde played with a few D1 linebackers at Catholic Memorial and I don't even remember him unless I go back and look at the old scouting reports.  Both of those players are potential All Americans.  (Edit: Union starters Colin Lama and Daniel Gioioso also Xaverian products with Ike).  I actually remember Gioioso being a stud NG/DT who could not be moved.  Needed a double team every play.

On a related note the Catholic Conference schools in MA have shifted (in a good way talent wise a and in regards to academics) and you will see more talent there being dragged away from your standard ISL schools like Roxbury Latin, Nobles, Belmont Hill and St. Sebs.  Dexter has started a decent program, but seeing Hobart and Union take out two all american type players from the Catholic Conference and a jump in D1 talent (with a new coach at CM who is getting paid 75K) expect LL coaches to grab more of these players in the future.  Hobart has an Academic All American from CM as well on their roster I see.

[Oline89]

Alright, I came back. I admittedly threw a virtual hissy-fit, took my ball and went home. But, saner heads eventually prevailed. K+'s will be distributed when I get to 200 posts

Anyway, onto the football. Regarding IC-Hobart, I have several thoughts:

1. That was an incredibly close 34-0 game. No snark at all. If IC doesn't convert that 3rd and 10 at the end of the 1st half deep in their own end, we could be looking at a totally different game. (more on this in a second)
2. Complaining about the referees is sometimes justified, but complaining about holding is pretty much just always sour grapes. As we've seen in the NFL, if referees actually called all the holds they saw, everyone would hate it. Frankly, I thought the officials weren't great on PI, and IC benefited from some plays I'd let go. But holding? That stuff is just silly.

I didn't get a good view of the targeting call, so I have no idea if it was justified or not.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/24/20881497/offensive-holding-penalties-increase

3. As it relates to point #1, by a "totally different" game, I mean a 17-6 type game, not an actual Hobart win. All season long, we've seen Ithaca's pass defense struggle, but Hobart could not get a thing going in the passing game. They simply could not connect on throws. I don't see, at all, how they could hang 41 on RPI

4. I was disappointed in the extracurricular stuff. A staggering amount of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct calls.

Former Bombers,
      +k for coming back, Pat should give you full rights and privileges as you have always been a sane and valued contributor .
Thanks for saying Hobart is not as bad as the 34-0 score, but we usually come out strong in the second half and that did not happen. We executed poorly in the second half, made the IC defense look like the Patriots  and Hobart,the least penalized team in the LL ,played out of character at times . Bottom line, IC is the better team this year especially with  Germinerio. Hobart frustrated Joe on the first 2 series(fumble), and we ran the ball well for a few first downs, but could not sustain the effort and certainly not the execution.
      As far as holding calls, it was obvious at times,IMO, but if the refs let you get away with it, then that sets the standard for the game. Butterfield gives the visitors a close view of the action and when the jerseys of the DE and NT are pulled tight you know the OLineman know how to grab just the right way to keep it out of the  view of the refs, but some were very obvious. It did not change the final outcome but it did contribute to the frustration.
       The chippy play was evident on both sides . You know its bad when Hobart's #15 argued an unsportsmanlike call and got a second flag, was tossed and quite a few of the IC team on the sidelines warmly waived good-bye( a team unsportsmanlike that was not called , but the game was over anyway ). I wouldn't want future Hobart-Ithaca games to be as chippy as some of the old Union-Hobart games..... this leaves a bad taste and selective memories.
        Good luck Ithaca ,the rest of the way, you only have a handful of games left to enjoy the  Germ to Gladney combo and their teammates special season as long as it lasts. We will see the Bombers at the Boz next year for a battle of football mortals.

To add to this, it might be safe to say that Hobart has the best defense in the league.  In terms of the chippy play, I think Hobart had to do something different than what they did in the 1st quarter of that Union game.  The coaching staff needed to get them fired up and they were fired up.  The only real dirty play I saw was the Hobart DL adding that clear extra shove when the IC player was out of bounds on the ground on the IC bench.  And even that wasn't a play that would have risked injury for anyone, it was more of a frustration type play.

I'll give you an interesting fact:  I coached against Ike Irabor and Emmett Forde when they played in High School.  I am shocked (I guess I shouldn't be I was in the same boat) that both of these guys have done so well where they are.  Ike was a solid back but I never thought he would start at a top notch d3 program as a freshman.  Forde played with a few D1 linebackers at Catholic Memorial and I don't even remember him unless I go back and look at the old scouting reports.  Both of those players are potential All Americans.  (Edit: Union starters Colin Lama and Daniel Gioioso also Xaverian products with Ike).  I actually remember Gioioso being a stud NG/DT who could not be moved.  Needed a double team every play.

On a related note the Catholic Conference schools in MA have shifted (in a good way talent wise a and in regards to academics) and you will see more talent there being dragged away from your standard ISL schools like Roxbury Latin, Nobles, Belmont Hill and St. Sebs.  Dexter has started a decent program, but seeing Hobart and Union take out two all american type players from the Catholic Conference and a jump in D1 talent (with a new coach at CM who is getting paid 75K) expect LL coaches to grab more of these players in the future.  Hobart has an Academic All American from CM as well on their roster I see.

Honestly, I have never looked at the high school that the Hobart players attended.  Now that you brought up Catholic Memorial, I see that the other Hobart player is Giacobbe.  That kid has the best hands on the team (he has been receiving punts since his freshman year), and will certainly receive some all league looks this year.  Forde may not have turned heads in high school, but OLB at Hobart is  position built for him----the DL covers the big guys up front, so he can use his speed and tackling ability to track down QB/RB's.  Hopefully the coaching staff keeps the Catholic Conference to Hobart pipeline wide open.