FB: Liberty League

[wally_wabash]

9-1 doesn't guarantee one home game.  There's zero percent chance Cortland mails it in in a rivalry game with a lot to play for beyond the Jug.

So if Ithaca wins, both teams end season at 9-1.  If either RPI or Union wins, the winner will be 9-1.  So winner of E8 (Cortland), winner of LL will be 9-1.  No home game for either?

It depends on how the bracket is drawn.  Some 9-1 teams get home games, some don't.  My only point there was that 9-1 puts any team in a spot to travel in Round 1. 

Cortland, if they were to mail it in and lose badly to Ithaca, could certainly plant themselves down to 3-4 in Region 2.  You've got 9-1 Salisbury over there.  10-0 DelVal.  10-0 Mount Union if things shift that way.  There's plenty of teams in Cortland's probable opponent sphere that could get home games if Cortland wipes out on Saturday. 

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear says he appreciates the post Mach and it's good to see you throwing out more thoughts like back in the Lew days. Also, as the Doids that he and Father Ice Bear are and will always be, Ice certainly has no issue with your description of the uppity U clientele. Ice Bear's clientele has always been closer to GhostFace's Supreme Clientele, which has never matched up well with the average Unionite.

Ice Bear would believe the Union of two seasons ago would have the potential to mop up the Engineers, but after what he's witnessed against the likes of the Pumpkins and B-52's, he just doesn't see it happening oline. The offensive play calling has been conservative at best. This is not the ****ing beloved Onion of two years ago. Ice ****ing loves his Onion, but this season has proven to be a different Onion altogether. We've spoken of the many reasons why, questions with Bellamy's health, his lack of accuracy since game #1, Onion's sole dependance upon Ike, Bellamy returning instead of moving on after last seasons no season, so he stays in for loyalty reasons, and possibly there being no confidence in the back up (which may or may not be valid). Either way this game is very hard to call. Ice has been watching this match-up since pissing himself in diapers and pissing himself without diapers, and he believes this year will be just as intense and unpredictable as many in the past. Ice will break out a prediction later in the week. For now, Ice is just so perplexed at the recent lack of passing by Union, the running no matter what, and trying to figure out if we will see the same team this week during a rivalry game as we've seen the last two weeks.

Ice Bear says BTW, please don't take Ice's recent critique and/or confusion of Union's play calling as a smite on Hobart and IC. Ice has a huge respect for both teams/programs and realizes how much of a step up in competition they both have been for the Dutchmen. Ice's confusion isn't so much based on results as it is based on the feel of the team and the direction of the offense. Ice still believes Hobart deserved to win the game in Schdy and there is no question as to the validity of IC's win last week. ****, even the grass looked tighter than Ice has ever seen it.

Ice Bear also believes there will most certainly not be a pool C awarded to the 2nd place LL team this season. 2nd place LL = ECAC's (if they are even being played) or ****ing donzo...

[UfanBill]

I would think that Cortica is more important to Cortland (and Ithica) than playoff seeding, may in fact be more important than the playoffs.

And 10-2 Union (or any LL team) doesn't get a ticket to the dance.

My fault, I meant an 11-1 Union

Based on Bracket projections on the General Football pages...  Unofficial DIII Bracketology - Cost Effective Edition, https://officepoolstop.com/Brackets/35913 it's unlikely the LL and E8 champ Cortland will meet in the 2nd Round but.   The LL runner up could be 9-1 Ithaca or 9-1 Union (and it would be 10-1 Union in the 2nd round) which would both have very respectable SOS numbers after this week with potentially 2 RR wins, so I do not agree that they are out of consideration for Pool C. 

[Ice Bear]

I would think that Cortica is more important to Cortland (and Ithica) than playoff seeding, may in fact be more important than the playoffs.

And 10-2 Union (or any LL team) doesn't get a ticket to the dance.

My fault, I meant an 11-1 Union

Based on Bracket projections on the General Football pages...  Unofficial DIII Bracketology - Cost Effective Edition, https://officepoolstop.com/Brackets/35913 it's unlikely the LL and E8 champ Cortland will meet in the 2nd Round but.   The LL runner up could be 9-1 Ithaca or 9-1 Union (and it would be 10-1 Union in the 2nd round) which would both have very respectable SOS numbers after this week with potentially 2 RR wins, so I do not agree that they are out of consideration for Pool C.

Ice Bear always appreciates your knowledge and knows to trust your perspective on all of this. Ice Bears says this is good news and maybe some added motivation for our beloved Dutch. Ice would love to see two LL teams get in.

Ice thinks IC is going to have a tough time with Cortland. Ice just has a feeling that this Cortland team may be the one and really take it to the Bombers. Ice Bear just sharing a feeling here and again, he certainly could be wrong...he often is.

[Bartman]

I'm feeling an ugly RPI win at Bailey which gives an Engineer team ,that no one was picking mid season, to win the LL. I also think Cortland has not been tested and Ithaca IS battle tested , Ithaca will rattle Brees S which will throw the dragons off their game. Projected scores to come later in the week. This will give the LL two teams in the NCAA tourney.

HISTORY ALERT:
  Bartman wants to point out that when the Union-RPI rivalry began in 1886, Hobart men took about ten years to challenge and beat Union 4-2 in their first contest,  and then stole all of the Dutchman shoes after the game.....for some reason this pissed off the Dutchmen and they told their little Troy boys not to play the Statesmen....so the first Hobart-RPI game was not until 1910 and  Hobart won that inaugural series game as well, 6-5. 

[IC798891]

With the new regional rankings out, I think it's very clear IC will be a strong Pool C contender should they win and Union lose.

Cortland being #1 means they almost assuredly survive a loss. RPI would be, #3 most likely. And Hobart sneaking in at 8 probably stays in if they win. I'd have to think they'd jump Union, who is 7, even with the H2H loss. The win over RPI and a better showing vs. IC probably the difference. But a 2-1 record vs. regionally ranked opponents, to go along with a huge SOS bodes well.

[Pat Coleman]

I think Carnegie Mellon makes a stronger case if it beats Case.

[UfanBill]

With the new regional rankings out, I think it's very clear IC will be a strong Pool C contender should they win and Union lose.

Cortland being #1 means they almost assuredly survive a loss. RPI would be, #3 most likely. And Hobart sneaking in at 8 probably stays in if they win. I'd have to think they'd jump Union, who is 7, even with the H2H loss. The win over RPI and a better showing vs. IC probably the difference. But a 2-1 record vs. regionally ranked opponents, to go along with a huge SOS bodes well.

Cortland survive a loss? What's to survive since Cortland has already clinched the E8 title and will be in the tournament. Their seed would obviously be altered with a loss to Ithaca though.

These are important words written at the bottom of the Regional Rankings page. How to use regional rankings: If you are an at-large candidate, you want to be sure you are the top at-large candidate in your region. That will ensure you get discussed by the national committee and have a chance to be put in the field. The prospects of a LL team, Ithaca or Union, being 9-1 and also the top at-large candidate in Region 2 are good. The committee is under no obligation to name a Pool C from Region 2 however. 

[UfanBill]

I think Carnegie Mellon makes a stronger case if it beats Case.

Stronger case for what? I assume Regional Ranking. Why is the PAC not already represented in the RR?...and doesn't CMU have the PAC AQ tiebreaker? I agree, CMU and Westminster should be RR'd ahead of Hobart. 

[Bartman]

I think Carnegie Mellon makes a stronger case if it beats Case.

Stronger case for what? I assume Regional Ranking. Why is the PAC not already represented in the RR?...and doesn't CMU have the PAC AQ tiebreaker? I agree, CMU and Westminster should be RR'd ahead of Hobart.

UFan, agree that I'm not sure what Pat was thinking with the Carnegie Mellon  comment? I don't agree with your last comment that  2 loss CMU and Westminster should both be ranked above Hobart in the RR .I think Hobart is the best 2 loss team in the region with a win over a RR RPI , an away OT loss to Union and an away loss to Ithaca that went down to the last play(if there is such a thing as "good" losses, Hobart has 2 of them against RR teams).  I think the RR voters made the right call here(hey, I'm kinda sensitive  ).  As far as the best team for a potential Pool C, I think Johns Hopkins has a leg up unless RPI wins shoes for the LL and Ithaca beats Cortland , where I think Ithaca edges out Hopkins with a super high SOS. If Union wins the Shoes and the Bombers lose, I think it will be a close call between Union and Hopkins for a Pool C  as strong one loss teams.

[Jonny Utah]

Random thought here that just hit me.  Covid has given every player an extra year of eligibility, so this would mean most players we have seen this year would have an extra year correct?  Thinking about Ithaca's quarterback.  His freshman year was 2019, where he didn't play and also didn't play in 2020 because of covid.  He is now a "junior" but could play two more years after this if he wanted to correct? 

I noticed on Ithaca's roster there are several "graduate students" which I get at those who would have been seniors in 2020 but missed because of Covid.  I assume anyone else not a "graduate student" would have a no questions asked extra year. 

I know a d1 College Hockey coach who has told me the covid extra year thing has been difficult to manage from a recruiting and team standpoint.  He has had to tell players who are seniors or even juniors who want to stay an extra year that they can't, as that impacts recruiting for future teams. 

Anyway probably an off season topic but made me think this is going to be a larger issue all over d3 I would think?

[Oline89]

I think Carnegie Mellon makes a stronger case if it beats Case.

Stronger case for what? I assume Regional Ranking. Why is the PAC not already represented in the RR?...and doesn't CMU have the PAC AQ tiebreaker? I agree, CMU and Westminster should be RR'd ahead of Hobart.

Head scratching comment here.  Westmister was blown out by Mount Union (expected) and soundly pounded by the best team in the PAC (Carnegie Mellon).  CMU has 2 close losses, to unranked teams.  Not sure how that resume is better than Hobart's 2 losses to top 25 teams, by less than one score.

[Jonny Utah]

I think Carnegie Mellon makes a stronger case if it beats Case.

Stronger case for what? I assume Regional Ranking. Why is the PAC not already represented in the RR?...and doesn't CMU have the PAC AQ tiebreaker? I agree, CMU and Westminster should be RR'd ahead of Hobart.

Head scratching comment here.  Westmister was blown out by Mount Union (expected) and soundly pounded by the best team in the PAC (Carnegie Mellon).  CMU has 2 close losses, to unranked teams.  Not sure how that resume is better than Hobart's 2 losses to top 25 teams, by less than one score.

I think that is Pat stroking his poll again (sorry had to say it). 

Hobart is behind CM in that poll so their win (Carnegie Mellon beating Case) would be better than Hobart's win in his mind.  Just guessing here.

[Oline89]

Random thought here that just hit me.  Covid has given every player an extra year of eligibility, so this would mean most players we have seen this year would have an extra year correct?  Thinking about Ithaca's quarterback.  His freshman year was 2019, where he didn't play and also didn't play in 2020 because of covid.  He is now a "junior" but could play two more years after this if he wanted to correct? 

I noticed on Ithaca's roster there are several "graduate students" which I get at those who would have been seniors in 2020 but missed because of Covid.  I assume anyone else not a "graduate student" would have a no questions asked extra year. 

I know a d1 College Hockey coach who has told me the covid extra year thing has been difficult to manage from a recruiting and team standpoint.  He has had to tell players who are seniors or even juniors who want to stay an extra year that they can't, as that impacts recruiting for future teams. 

Anyway probably an off season topic but made me think this is going to be a larger issue all over d3 I would think?

I have a few nephews applying to college this year, and the lack of available "slots" has definetly been an issue.  Especially noticed with some of the Ivy's in football and lacrosse.  Hobart started a MSM grad program last year, so most of the 5th year seniors are grad students.  I know at least one current senior has already announced he is coming back for a 5th year. 

[IC798891]

With the new regional rankings out, I think it's very clear IC will be a strong Pool C contender should they win and Union lose.

Cortland being #1 means they almost assuredly survive a loss. RPI would be, #3 most likely. And Hobart sneaking in at 8 probably stays in if they win. I'd have to think they'd jump Union, who is 7, even with the H2H loss. The win over RPI and a better showing vs. IC probably the difference. But a 2-1 record vs. regionally ranked opponents, to go along with a huge SOS bodes well.

Cortland survive a loss? What's to survive since Cortland has already clinched the E8 title and will be in the tournament. Their seed would obviously be altered with a loss to Ithaca though.

These are important words written at the bottom of the Regional Rankings page. How to use regional rankings: If you are an at-large candidate, you want to be sure you are the top at-large candidate in your region. That will ensure you get discussed by the national committee and have a chance to be put in the field. The prospects of a LL team, Ithaca or Union, being 9-1 and also the top at-large candidate in Region 2 are good. The committee is under no obligation to name a Pool C from Region 2 however.

Survive as in remain regionally ranked, which would then give Ithaca another win over a regionally ranked opponent.

A 9-1 Ithaca is going to be the top at-large team in the region. RPI losing would drop them below IC, as would Muhlenberg losing. Hopkins has no hope of jumping a 9-1 IC.

As for whether or not the committee would select a 9-1 Ithaca, they are obviously not required to, but IC's massive SOS number (which is only going to grow once Cortland is factored in) is already better than anyone from regions 1-5.

Additionally, IC would likely be 2-1 vs regionally ranked opponents. I've already discussed that I think Cortland will survive in the rankings despite a loss. The RPI will remain ranked after beating Union. And Hobart will likely remain ranked with a win over Rochester — I don't know who else the committee might be considering at the #8 spot, but it seems likely, especially if Union, right in front of them, loses.

A 2-1 record vs. RR opponents with a super high SOS makes me feel very confident that Ithaca will be in the tournament if they go 9-1 and fall into Pool C.

But who knows? They could lose Cortaca. They could get left out even at 9-1. Or Union could beat RPI and render the entire debate pointless.