FB: Liberty League

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear congratulates the Dutchmen on their hard fought victory today which took place an hour and a half west of Shocktown in a Shocktown of its own right, Springfield, Mass (the Bear always kind of sees Springfield like a Barry Bonds...Schenectady is Bonds on the Pirates and Springfield is Bonds on the Giants after using PED's).

Ice Bear says among the ****ing penalties that Union took (Ice believes the officials were very consistent and fair to both sides today as they were throwing the yellow around like ****ing leaves falling off the trees in November) and some of the Paccatte's passing accuracy issues the Union D decided to put a real stamp on this young 2022 season. The Bear salutes the Union D today for holding the Pride offense to 0 TD's, 2 FG's, and under 300 yards on the ground. Ice watched the Dutchmen D play physical disciplined defense consistently from start to finish. He was impressed.

As far as the offense goes Union did enough. A fresh Ike Irabor broke a big TD run when it counted in the fourth to solidify the W. Union used their four top backs in order of drives, Irabor, Fiore, Ferraira, and (Ice's favorite) Jonathan Anderson. Ice believes lthis rotation was used until late in the third quarter. Irabor carried the load for most of the fourth.

The Bear slid on ice as he watched Paccatte make some very accurate throws early and then struggle for that final 3 quarters. Ice Bear loves him some Paccatte and is always critical on the Union QB whomever it may be. Donovon must work on his accuracy (he under threw a ton of balls today) in order for the Union O to take advantage of the 3, yes 3 mostly unstoppable deep threats they have in Ross, Dunnemann, and Tolbert. All three, at times today, easily beat their coverage only to have to come back for a ball that if thrown on point, would have lead to an automatic TD. Ice knows this very easy for him to say and very HARD to do. All three gem receivers are very fast and the combination of timing and arm strength to continually make these deep throws is very rare. Most cubs who can do it play up in the next division. Ice knows Donovan will keep working hard to improve his distance and also keep being the competitor he is. Ice loves his running toughness and his deceptional speed. Ice believes playing QB at this level is not easy...at all.

Overall a good W over a solid opponent in the Pride. Next week the Pioneers of Utica bring their tomato pie (Utica has great tomato pie!) to Shocktown. To Ice, this will be another tough game. Maybe Union cracks the top 25 this week? Deserving...maybe/probably/possibly.

*Hats off to Pride QB Wells who fought very hard today and was really the lone bright spot for the vaunted Pride O. The kid took some very hard hits and kept fighting. Kid's a ****ing Bear.

[IC798891]

LL Power Rankings

1. Ithaca — The Bombers have the best win in the LL so far, with an impressive shutout of Brockport. I think the offensive upside against quality teams is somewhat limited (I don't expect 50, or even 40 point games when the tough LL slate starts), but the defense is excellent, and the Bombers have two return TDs this year already.

2. RPI — Speaking of excellent defenses, RPI's back here doing their thing. A dominant win over WPI breaks the trend where it seems like RPI plays to the level of their opponent. And the CM loss looks better every week. But RPI has yet to play on the road, and a good win is better than a good loss, if you're wondering why IC is ahead of them.

3. Union — Springfield is always a tricky game, so credit to Union's D for shutting them down. Will a plucky-looking 3-0 Utica team be another test?

4. Hobart — As tempting as it is to write off the Morrisville loss as meaningless since their starting QB wasn't playing, I'm a little more concerned with a ho-hum 17-0 win over Fisher. The defense pitched the shutout but allowed the Cardinals inside their 40 six times and allowed them to convert 7 of 14 3rd downs.

5. Rochester — If I had to pick an LL team to play spoiler, it's these guys

6. St. Lawrence — As I said elsewhere, that's three straight weeks with a worse result than 2021.

7. Buff State — Look, Cortland's going to go 10-0 and win the E8. The offense is a buzzsaw. But St. John Fisher hung 62 on them too. And that was one of the 4 teams that didn't beat the Bengals by at least 24 last year. I think they're going to go 0-10 again

[unionpalooza]

LL Power Rankings

1. Ithaca — The Bombers have the best win in the LL so far, with an impressive shutout of Brockport. I think the offensive upside against quality teams is somewhat limited (I don't expect 50, or even 40 point games when the tough LL slate starts), but the defense is excellent, and the Bombers have two return TDs this year already.

2. RPI — Speaking of excellent defenses, RPI's back here doing their thing. A dominant win over WPI breaks the trend where it seems like RPI plays to the level of their opponent. And the CM loss looks better every week. But RPI has yet to play on the road, and a good win is better than a good loss, if you're wondering why IC is ahead of them.

3. Union — Springfield is always a tricky game, so credit to Union's D for shutting them down. Will a plucky-looking 3-0 Utica team be another test?

4. Hobart — As tempting as it is to write off the Morrisville loss as meaningless since their starting QB wasn't playing, I'm a little more concerned with a ho-hum 17-0 win over Fisher. The defense pitched the shutout but allowed the Cardinals inside their 40 six times and allowed them to convert 7 of 14 3rd downs.

5. Rochester — If I had to pick an LL team to play spoiler, it's these guys

6. St. Lawrence — As I said elsewhere, that's three straight weeks with a worse result than 2021.

7. Buff State — Look, Cortland's going to go 10-0 and win the E8. The offense is a buzzsaw. But St. John Fisher hung 62 on them too. And that was one of the 4 teams that didn't beat the Bengals by at least 24 last year. I think they're going to go 0-10 again

This looks about right to me, though I might swap Union and RPI, simply because the Dutchmen seem much more balanced than RPI, who is going to need to rely on their defense all season.  Ithaca clearly well out ahead of the rest of the pack, at least for now. 

As for the Dutchmen, a defensive struggle with the Pride is the last thing I would have predicted, but alas, that was what we got.  Both teams played hard and physical, and the Union D gave up very little all day.  Many of us worried about a young, inexperienced front 7 going into this season, but they appear to be the strength of the unit; they stacked up the Springfield FBs and ran down the QB/RBs on the edge all game long.

But what seemed like it might be a rout early quickly evened up as the Springfield defense bent but did not break much, and Union committed a ton of drive-killing penalties on offense.  Pacatte made some nice plays but also missed a number of wide open receivers with underthrown balls - the offense is going need to improve on both of those points if they want to win against the LL big boys later this season.  But I think generally these are the kinds of weaknesses that can and do get better over the year; hopefully, the Dutchmen will be clicking on all cylinders come the final push.

Union gets another test next week, hosting a 3-0 Utica squad that will be much more balanced on offense.  Other than that, it looks like a light week in the LL - Ithaca is off, Hobart feasts on ECFC cupcake Keystone, and RPI gets SJF.  That last game will at least give us a H2H comparison relative to last week's SJF-Hobart result.   

[Ice Bear]

Ice Bear slides on his back and throws out some +k for the post palooza. Ice says this board has been dead as ****...

[Bartman]

+ks to IC and palooza for analysis . I think it is:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Union
    3. RPI
    4. Hobart
    5. foUR
    6. SLU
    7. Buff State

I still think, any of the top 4 are capable of winning the league , but Hobart has much to prove by first solidly beating Keystone and defending the Boz against the top team in the league, the Bombers. The Statesmen will be double digit underdogs on 10/1 , but they cannot look past any more opponents and need to show a very crisp Offense and continue to improve on Defense and Special teams this week. The LL is only 12-8 OOC so far, they need to get some wins this week.

[Jonny Utah]

+ks to IC and palooza for analysis . I think it is:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Union
    3. RPI
    4. Hobart
    5. foUR
    6. SLU
    7. Buff State

I still think, any of the top 4 are capable of winning the league , but Hobart has much to prove by first solidly beating Keystone and defending the Boz against the top team in the league, the Bombers. The Statesmen will be double digit underdogs on 10/1 , but they cannot look past any more opponents and need to show a very crisp Offense and continue to improve on Defense and Special teams this week. The LL is only 12-8 OOC so far, they need to get some wins this week.

Yea Ithaca and Union seem to always start off strong, don't lose games to teams they shouldn't and score 50+ a few times against teams that are outmatched.

Hobart's QB play has not been at the level of Union/Ithaca since Sweeney left.  Their defense keeps them in games but without a top QB they are at risk of not doing much post season.

RPI seems to just clog along and play either down or up to their competition.  They don't need to score 50+ against Alfred or SLU but will be prepared against Union or Ithaca when that big game comes. 

SLU is simply having a down year and looks like will battle with Rochester and Buffalo State for that 5th place spot.

[Ice Bear]

+ks to IC and palooza for analysis . I think it is:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Union
    3. RPI
    4. Hobart
    5. foUR
    6. SLU
    7. Buff State

I still think, any of the top 4 are capable of winning the league , but Hobart has much to prove by first solidly beating Keystone and defending the Boz against the top team in the league, the Bombers. The Statesmen will be double digit underdogs on 10/1 , but they cannot look past any more opponents and need to show a very crisp Offense and continue to improve on Defense and Special teams this week. The LL is only 12-8 OOC so far, they need to get some wins this week.

Yea Ithaca and Union seem to always start off strong, don't lose games to teams they shouldn't and score 50+ a few times against teams that are outmatched.

Hobart's QB play has not been at the level of Union/Ithaca since Sweeney left.  Their defense keeps them in games but without a top QB they are at risk of not doing much post season.

RPI seems to just clog along and play either down or up to their competition.  They don't need to score 50+ against Alfred or SLU but will be prepared against Union or Ithaca when that big game comes. 

SLU is simply having a down year and looks like will battle with Rochester and Buffalo State for that 5th place spot.

The Bear is in full agreement here but certainly isn't going to sleep on the Pumpkinheads. Ice believes we all feel that with Krewson taking the snaps the ceiling may be limited but with that being said Ice believes Krewson can and will cause some damage this year. Ice says again it's all about consistency with this kid. He is a great athlete and very capable. Ice Bear just hasn't seen him put it all together for more than a week or two. Ice fully expects the beast in Krewson and company to come gunning for his Dutchmen and wouldn't be shocked at a Pumpkin W against Union or any of the other three top four.

The Bear throws left over seal to the likes of Roch Cha Cha, SLU, and the ****ing miserable Bengals. IIBHO Roch Cha has made some gains, SLU is just ****ing down after losing it's O-line and the aforementioned Bengals are wishing they would play some teams on the other side of the lake instead of the facing full LL schedule.

[Jonny Utah]

+ks to IC and palooza for analysis . I think it is:
    1. Ithaca
    2. Union
    3. RPI
    4. Hobart
    5. foUR
    6. SLU
    7. Buff State

I still think, any of the top 4 are capable of winning the league , but Hobart has much to prove by first solidly beating Keystone and defending the Boz against the top team in the league, the Bombers. The Statesmen will be double digit underdogs on 10/1 , but they cannot look past any more opponents and need to show a very crisp Offense and continue to improve on Defense and Special teams this week. The LL is only 12-8 OOC so far, they need to get some wins this week.

Yea Ithaca and Union seem to always start off strong, don't lose games to teams they shouldn't and score 50+ a few times against teams that are outmatched.

Hobart's QB play has not been at the level of Union/Ithaca since Sweeney left.  Their defense keeps them in games but without a top QB they are at risk of not doing much post season.

RPI seems to just clog along and play either down or up to their competition.  They don't need to score 50+ against Alfred or SLU but will be prepared against Union or Ithaca when that big game comes. 

SLU is simply having a down year and looks like will battle with Rochester and Buffalo State for that 5th place spot.

The Bear is in full agreement here but certainly isn't going to sleep on the Pumpkinheads. Ice believes we all feel that with Krewson taking the snaps the ceiling may be limited but with that being said Ice believes Krewson can and will cause some damage this year. Ice says again it's all about consistency with this kid. He is a great athlete and very capable. Ice Bear just hasn't seen him put it all together for more than a week or two. Ice fully expects the beast in Krewson and company to come gunning for his Dutchmen and wouldn't be shocked at a Pumpkin W against Union or any of the other three top four.

The Bear throws left over seal to the likes of Roch Cha Cha, SLU, and the ****ing miserable Bengals. IIBHO Roch Cha has made some gains, SLU is just ****ing down after losing it's O-line and the aforementioned Bengals are wishing they would play some teams on the other side of the lake instead of the facing full LL schedule.

Yea and it may not all be on Krewson either.  It could just be their passing game in general in terms of skill guys or even scheme.  I'm not sure how many times I watched Hobart last year closely but they do a good job getting creative to get the football to Denham and Boswell and those two guys are imo possibly the two best players in the league.  But it comes to a point that they need to recognize that those guys are running backs and not receivers and you can only piecemeal so much in trying to get them into the offense as much as you can. 

[IC798891]

I think a lot of the LL offenses don't ask a lot from their QBs. Limit mistakes, lean on the run game and defense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or that it's a flaw of any player, even. I just think they're comfortable trying to win games (against good teams) 21-17. Most of the time it works.

[Ice Bear]

I think a lot of the LL offenses don't ask a lot from their QBs. Limit mistakes, lean on the run game and defense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or that it's a flaw of any player, even. I just think they're comfortable trying to win games (against good teams) 21-17. Most of the time it works.

Ice Bear concurrs IC, but IIBHO if a team has a QB and receiving core who are capable of doing a lot in the passing game, they would most certainly take advantage of that...and not choose to limit realistic opportunity. The may still lean on the defense at the same time, but if you've got it, you use it...as long as it can work. 

[Bartman]

I think a lot of the LL offenses don't ask a lot from their QBs. Limit mistakes, lean on the run game and defense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or that it's a flaw of any player, even. I just think they're comfortable trying to win games (against good teams) 21-17. Most of the time it works.

Ice Bear concurrs IC, but IIBHO if a team has a QB and receiving core who are capable of doing a lot in the passing game, they would most certainly take advantage of that...and not choose to limit realistic opportunity. The may still lean on the defense at the same time, but if you've got it, you use it...as long as it can work.

Gotta go with IB on his comments here. If you look at LL stats for Conference Only(gets the noise out from OOC games), passing is the preferred way to move the ball unless your RBs are special. Last year Hobart preferred the Denham /Boswell combo to letting Krewson pass, based on talent and a strong OL. Years past, Hobart was very pass oriented especially under Sweeney, despite having some decent rushers. I think the DBs in the league are often behind the talent of the strong WRs, and there is inconsistency of talent at DB that allows you to isolate on weaknesses. But you have to have a QB that is pretty accurate, and Krewson is inconsistent. Krewson has some new young deep threats now that makes it worth a heave-ho from time to time to stop teams from loading the box. Ithaca and Union look like they have good QBs  and WRs this year, and strong RBs, so that's why I have them #1,2 in the league. If Hobart backs are healthy they will go for the TOP for sure and look to grind out games like they did against RPI last year.
By the way, how did RPI win the LL last year, when they were negative net yards in LL play?? Stats of a Champion?? I guess the score is the only stat that counts, and with their D this year , they'l be in every game again .

[Jonny Utah]

I think a lot of the LL offenses don't ask a lot from their QBs. Limit mistakes, lean on the run game and defense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or that it's a flaw of any player, even. I just think they're comfortable trying to win games (against good teams) 21-17. Most of the time it works.

Ice Bear concurrs IC, but IIBHO if a team has a QB and receiving core who are capable of doing a lot in the passing game, they would most certainly take advantage of that...and not choose to limit realistic opportunity. The may still lean on the defense at the same time, but if you've got it, you use it...as long as it can work.

Gotta go with IB on his comments here. If you look at LL stats for Conference Only(gets the noise out from OOC games), passing is the preferred way to move the ball unless your RBs are special. Last year Hobart preferred the Denham /Boswell combo to letting Krewson pass, based on talent and a strong OL. Years past, Hobart was very pass oriented especially under Sweeney, despite having some decent rushers. I think the DBs in the league are often behind the talent of the strong WRs, and there is inconsistency of talent at DB that allows you to isolate on weaknesses. But you have to have a QB that is pretty accurate, and Krewson is inconsistent. Krewson has some new young deep threats now that makes it worth a heave-ho from time to time to stop teams from loading the box. Ithaca and Union look like they have good QBs  and WRs this year, and strong RBs, so that's why I have them #1,2 in the league. If Hobart backs are healthy they will go for the TOP for sure and look to grind out games like they did against RPI last year.
By the way, how did RPI win the LL last year, when they were negative net yards in LL play?? Stats of a Champion?? I guess the score is the only stat that counts, and with their D this year , they'l be in every game again .

I watched a little of the WPI/RPI game online and RPI looks like a big physical team up front.  Both the oline and dline seem like physical specimens. 

I think IC798891 may be talking more about how all of the LL teams (And maybe college teams in general) are throwing more WR screens and RPO passes that are only thrown when they are open.  There isn't a lot of 5 step drop/progression type of work for the QBs where they are trying to make long throws.  The QB is just a cog in the RPO machine in todays college offense. 

Im watching some of the Union/Worcester State game on Youtube.  First off Union has a new weapon at WR and returner #1 Nicholas Dunneman.  Second (and I know this has been talked about here or somewhere on the boards before),  Union has a starting cornerback wearing #1 and a starting WR wearing #1.   Why do they do this?  Wouldn't these guys want their own number?  Why did Ike Irabor switch from #1 to #0?  And how long has #0 been a viable number for football players?

Also for what it's worth, Union dismantled Worcester State much easier than Ithaca did to Bridgewater State.

[Pat Coleman]

I think 0 has been a legal number in college football for maybe three years.

[IC798891]

I think IC798891 may be talking more about how all of the LL teams (And maybe college teams in general) are throwing more WR screens and RPO passes that are only thrown when they are open.  There isn't a lot of 5 step drop/progression type of work for the QBs where they are trying to make long throws.  The QB is just a cog in the RPO machine in todays college offense. 

This. It's not really about the yardage per se. It's a type of low-risk pass that is the opposite of "Stand in the pocket, be aware of protection, go through a progression, fit a ball in a window."

It's "Catch the snap, turn your body, throw quickly."

These teams aren't airing it out down the field against each other.

[Bartman]

I think IC798891 may be talking more about how all of the LL teams (And maybe college teams in general) are throwing more WR screens and RPO passes that are only thrown when they are open.  There isn't a lot of 5 step drop/progression type of work for the QBs where they are trying to make long throws.  The QB is just a cog in the RPO machine in todays college offense. 

This. It's not really about the yardage per se. It's a type of low-risk pass that is the opposite of "Stand in the pocket, be aware of protection, go through a progression, fit a ball in a window."

It's "Catch the snap, turn your body, throw quickly."

These teams aren't airing it out down the field against each other.

Gotta love those bubble screens