FB: Liberty League

[Machiavelli]

So it was the end of the 2nd quarter, RPI already has most of the reserves in with a 49-0 lead. Dean goes for it on 4th and 2 from their own 34 or so. RPI stuffs them, then goes down in 3-4 plays and scores a TD. The RPI radio announcers start acting like RPI is running around kicking and stealing puppies from everyone. 'I would have just taken a knee.' 'I don't think that is going to go over well.' What f'ing planet am I on? It's the 2nd quarter, there are reserves in getting valuable 2-minute drill reps they deserve and will benefit from, and Dean just decided to go for it on 4th and not punt. Should RPI just start kneeling in Q2 for the rest of the game? What soft world am I living in? Are they afraid of hurt feelings? If a team is doing this in the 4th quarter, different story. But really....Give. Me. A. Break.

[unionpalooza]

So it was the end of the 2nd quarter, RPI already has most of the reserves in with a 49-0 lead. Dean goes for it on 4th and 2 from their own 34 or so. RPI stuffs them, then goes down in 3-4 plays and scores a TD. The RPI radio announcers start acting like RPI is running around kicking and stealing puppies from everyone. 'I would have just taken a knee.' 'I don't think that is going to go over well.' What f'ing planet am I on? It's the 2nd quarter, there are reserves in getting valuable 2-minute drill reps they deserve and will benefit from, and Dean just decided to go for it on 4th and not punt. Should RPI just start kneeling in Q2 for the rest of the game? What soft world am I living in? Are they afraid of hurt feelings? If a team is doing this in the 4th quarter, different story. But really....Give. Me. A. Break.

Union ran into this problem the first two games, and when the teams are really miss matched, there's only just so much you can do.  You put in the reserves, you run the ball, but you really can't start kneeling it out until late in the fourth quarter.  Nothing wrong with this at all, and if I'm the other team, kneeling it out in scoring position in the second quarter would feel way more disrespectful than being scored on again.

[Bartman]

    Keystone has a very athletic QB that took his team for two scoring drives(TD and FG) on the fist two possessions that caught the Hobart Defense flat after the bye week. The Hobart D settled down and shut out Keystone for the rest of the game. The Hobart Offense finally showed that Colombi can pass as he threw for 3 TD passes after his receivers dropped some easy ones in the first Quarter. Hobart scored on every possession in the first 3 Quarters to finish out a 43-10  win. It was a good win in the end, but if they start the game next week against Ithaca the way they started tonight , it could be over early.
     The good news is that Hobart has some very nice Freshman talent with RB  E.J. Taylor  running for 99 yards and a TD and QB Tru Styles completing his first pass attempt for 10 yards and the defense saw some solid contributions from the Freshmen in the fourth quarter.
      The pre-season is over now, let the real season begin next Saturday at Butterfield .

[Ice Bear]

Yesterday was certainly a nice day for the Liberty League. Rochester continues to work and grow. SLU even surprised me pitching a shutout (even against the likes of Castleton). It was nice to see RPI throttle Dean and Hobart go on a scoring tirade against Keystone. Proud of the LL.

Union played pretty well against a decent Montclair squad. I really liked Montclair's QB. He is definitely a leader and made some very pinpoint throws in the first half. Union absolutely squashed the run which put him in a very difficult position in the second half playing from behind. Union matched the Red Hawks physicality and one upped them with their speed and athleticism. I do think Union will be able to compete with the other three LL big dogs. Even at 4-0 I still don't have enough to confidently place them above or possibly even with the other three. The exciting part is that those answers will only come from one place, on the field results.

One thing that did concern me a bit yesterday was that Union did leave a lot of points on the field. Paccatte, who I really like, was inconsistent with his accuracy at times. Jonathan Anderson, my favorite Garnet Charger, showed some vulnerability regarding holding onto the football, two extra points were missed (both snap/hold related), and a poorly executed (and possibly called) second quarter onside kick cost the U 7 points. So, some great results but certainly some areas for improvement. To win this league you've got to dot your i's and cross your t's. I do believe Union is capable of doing this but they have work to do.

Regarding Mach's post, I am in full agreement with his thoughts. Aside from the end of the fourth quarter, if you want to grow as a program game experience is something that even practice can't exactly replicate. To have your 2nd and 3rd team players in, who work their tails off during practice all week, and ask them to not score, to not play, to not try to execute the best they can is really a poor practice. Sometimes getting your backside handed to you is just part of the game, part of life. Play hard to the end and then when you get there, that's where you can shut it down a bit.

[UfanBill]

Not This Time...I can only imagine what was going through Union QB Donovan Picatte's head at halftime yesterday. The Garnet had carved out a 20-7 lead over Montclair St., much like how they had a 24-7 lead at halftime over Utica last season. The big difference was that last year Picatte was undergoing treatment for a late 2nd quarter injury that would keep him out of what turned out to be a disastrous 2nd half loss to the Pioneers. That had to be on his mind right?

Yesterday Montclair received the post break kickoff and the Union D quickly stuffed them to a 3 and out. Pacatte entered the game with the ball at his own 33 and went to work. He masterfully led the Garnet on a no huddle hurry up 12 play drive which culminated in a Union TD that essentially sealed the deal. Completing 5 of 5 passes and running a QB draw that nearly broke for a score himself, before handing off to touchdown maker Michael Fiore to finish. Pacatte is a leader. Things were different this time.       

[IC798891]

RPI did what was expected.

So did Union. But I will say, much like I've said about Cortland on the E8 boards...you never really know about a team until they get punched in the mouth by a good team. That's what Union (and Cortland) ran into last season, and, lest everyone thinks I'm being biased, Ithaca did in 2019.

It's always fun when you're playing teams you're just better than and you're blowing them out. But for most of us in this region, we don't have the luxury of being that much better than everyone on the schedule. This isn't a comment on the value of scheduling practices, it's just a belief I have.

I wonder if Rochester is improved enough to give Union that test

[Machiavelli]

So it was the end of the 2nd quarter, RPI already has most of the reserves in with a 49-0 lead. Dean goes for it on 4th and 2 from their own 34 or so. RPI stuffs them, then goes down in 3-4 plays and scores a TD. The RPI radio announcers start acting like RPI is running around kicking and stealing puppies from everyone. 'I would have just taken a knee.' 'I don't think that is going to go over well.' What f'ing planet am I on? It's the 2nd quarter, there are reserves in getting valuable 2-minute drill reps they deserve and will benefit from, and Dean just decided to go for it on 4th and not punt. Should RPI just start kneeling in Q2 for the rest of the game? What soft world am I living in? Are they afraid of hurt feelings? If a team is doing this in the 4th quarter, different story. But really....Give. Me. A. Break.

Union ran into this problem the first two games, and when the teams are really miss matched, there's only just so much you can do.  You put in the reserves, you run the ball, but you really can't start kneeling it out until late in the fourth quarter.  Nothing wrong with this at all, and if I'm the other team, kneeling it out in scoring position in the second quarter would feel way more disrespectful than being scored on again.

Such a great point. As a competitor, would you rather have a team running plays in the second quarter or kneeling on it, confirming how badly you suck, with intent, right in your face? This day and age, questionably, it could be the latter. But I'd like to think not.

[Jersey42]

RPI got the expected win against their patsie.  Every LL team but Ithaca has at least one team on their schedule they should beat easily, and so far that has happened.

RPI played mostly their first or second team offense in the first half. But that last 20 second drive of the first half was lead by their third string QB.  Overall RPI played 5 quarterbacks. 6 running backs got two or more carries and 13 receivers caught a pass.    The defense started substituting early with several players not on the two deep seeing action in the first quarter.  In the second half, most of the first teamers on both sides of the ball did not play at all.  Most of the second teamers that played were freshmen.  A big portion of their roster saw some action with constant substitutions. Even with all of the RPI substitutions, Dean never crossed midfield until their last drive aided by a 50+ yard pass from deep in their own territory. 

Next week things begin for real.  Ithaca has the toughest start with Hobart, RPI (on the road) and Union. We will see if their tough OOC schedule has prepared them well.

[Ice Bear]

My updated LL rankings:

1.) Ithaca
2.) RPI
3.) Hobart
4.) Union
5.) Rochester
6.) SLU
7.) Buffalo State

[unionpalooza]

Yesterday was certainly a nice day for the Liberty League. Rochester continues to work and grow. SLU even surprised me pitching a shutout (even against the likes of Castleton). It was nice to see RPI throttle Dean and Hobart go on a scoring tirade against Keystone. Proud of the LL.

Union played pretty well against a decent Montclair squad. I really liked Montclair's QB. He is definitely a leader and made some very pinpoint throws in the first half. Union absolutely squashed the run which put him in a very difficult position in the second half playing from behind. Union matched the Red Hawks physicality and one upped them with their speed and athleticism. I do think Union will be able to compete with the other three LL big dogs. Even at 4-0 I still don't have enough to confidently place them above or possibly even with the other three. The exciting part is that those answers will only come from one place, on the field results.

One thing that did concern me a bit yesterday was that Union did leave a lot of points on the field. Paccatte, who I really like, was inconsistent with his accuracy at times. Jonathan Anderson, my favorite Garnet Charger, showed some vulnerability regarding holding onto the football, two extra points were missed (both snap/hold related), and a poorly executed (and possibly called) second quarter onside kick cost the U 7 points. So, some great results but certainly some areas for improvement. To win this league you've got to dot your i's and cross your t's. I do believe Union is capable of doing this but they have work to do.

Regarding Mach's post, I am in full agreement with his thoughts. Aside from the end of the fourth quarter, if you want to grow as a program game experience is something that even practice can't exactly replicate. To have your 2nd and 3rd team players in, who work their tails off during practice all week, and ask them to not score, to not play, to not try to execute the best they can is really a poor practice. Sometimes getting your backside handed to you is just part of the game, part of life. Play hard to the end and then when you get there, that's where you can shut it down a bit.

Union certainly left points on the field, but I don't think Pacatte was inconsistent at all.  22 of 35 for 273 and 2 TDS and no INTs works just fine.  Almost all of those incompletions were drops or WR miscommunications; he was throwing darts all day.

[Ice Bear]

I agree he had a good game, but I disagree that he was on target all day. Obviously I'm picking low hanging fruit here and admittedly maybe being a bit too critical. With that said, he missed some throws, as does every QB. I love the kid but his accuracy is inconsistent at times IMHO and if I'm being critical and looking at small flaws that could cost Union against the likes of the other three, his accuracy, at times, is one of them IMHO.

[Bartman]

Today's D3football National poll has Ithaca moving up to #17 ahead of Hardin Simmons and Endicott coming in at #21, and Union getting a few points and RPI getting a point. Sad little Hobart has no points , but then, didn't expect any. So based on all of this input , my new LL ranking is:

1. Ithaca
2. RPI
3. Union
4.Hobart
5.U of R
6.SLU
7.Buffalo State

I do think that any of the top four is capable of beating another top 4 this season, and the Yellowjackets will sting one of them this year. Don't look at statistics to make comparisons at this point in the season....the only statistics that count will be the LL conference statistics. My biggest hope is that the Hobart-U of R game at the Boz is relevant for the LL title in 7 weeks.

[Ice Bear]

Today's D3football National poll has Ithaca moving up to #17 ahead of Hardin Simmons and Endicott coming in at #21, and Union getting a few points and RPI getting a point. Sad little Hobart has no points , but then, didn't expect any. So based on all of this input , my new LL ranking is:

1. Ithaca
2. RPI
3. Union
4.Hobart
5.U of R
6.SLU
7.Buffalo State

I do think that any of the top four is capable of beating another top 4 this season, and the Yellowjackets will sting one of them this year. Don't look at statistics to make comparisons at this point in the season....the only statistics that count will be the LL conference statistics. My biggest hope is that the Hobart-U of R game at the Boz is relevant for the LL title in 7 weeks.

Nice Bartman. Certainly fair to put Union ahead of Hobart. I think at this point those two may be the most interchangeable. For some reason I can't let go of last seasons dismal ending for the Dutchmen at the hands of Hobart, IC and RPI. I guess I've got to see the Dutch defeat one of them before I believe they are above the 4 spot.

I also like your thought on Rochester taking out one of the four. It may be possible but I just don't think the Yellowjackets are there yet. We shall see. Love the LL play!

[Jonny Utah]

So I watched some Wabash/Butler highlights on youtube from their game on 9/16.  Butler is FCS and averages about 3K fans a game or so and had 6,200 for the Wabash game.  Butler is no powerhouse but did go to Montana (ranked #15 in FCS) for the first game and played them tough. 

Anyway I was wondering what kind of crowd you would get if Ithaca or Hobart played at Cornell.  I bet you would have a lot of alumni come up to watch that game.  Oddly enough, Ithaca/Hobart football games get 5x-10x the amount of fans that Cornell/Hobart Lax games get (at either venue).  A quick glance on their site it appears that Hobart football does better with attendance than Hobart lax does.

We could substitute these games with Union at Colgate (or IC/RPI/Hobart) at Colgate too.  I dunno.  I think it would be cool to see a d3/FCS matchup in upstate. 

[Bartman]

So I watched some Wabash/Butler highlights on youtube from their game on 9/16.  Butler is FCS and averages about 3K fans a game or so and had 6,200 for the Wabash game.  Butler is no powerhouse but did go to Montana (ranked #15 in FCS) for the first game and played them tough. 

Anyway I was wondering what kind of crowd you would get if Ithaca or Hobart played at Cornell.  I bet you would have a lot of alumni come up to watch that game.  Oddly enough, Ithaca/Hobart football games get 5x-10x the amount of fans that Cornell/Hobart Lax games get (at either venue).  A quick glance on their site it appears that Hobart football does better with attendance than Hobart lax does.

We could substitute these games with Union at Colgate (or IC/RPI/Hobart) at Colgate too.  I dunno.  I think it would be cool to see a d3/FCS matchup in upstate.

Interesting topic. I noticed that when Hobart last played Ithaca at Butterfield there were 3800 in attendance .....beware of rounded number which are often the SID "guesses" as to attendance at D3 games. I don't think Hobart fan attendance would increase at Shoelkolpf Field......but if you said the Syracuse Dome, I think that could attract a crowd of Hobart alumni for a promoted Bomber game. Now, Ithaca has about three times the alumni base, so I think it would favor the Bombers on attendance , but Hobart Alums might go for quite a few luxury suites if offered as part of the promotion. A Colgate game vs. Hobart at Syracuse could get a crowd, but I doubt Colgate would agree.
  You are right that football gets more attendance than D1 lacrosse in general at Hobart with the exception of the Syracuse game.  In the 1970's  Hobart packed the old Boswell Bowl for football, especially against rival Alfred with 5k++ crowds , and Hobart Lax spilled over with 10k plus against Syracuse, Cornell or Cortland at the old Boswell Bowl in the center of campus. For Cornell lax games even a few freshly caught trophy sized Lake Trout from Seneca Lake  watched the game from the Cornell bench
   Unfortunately, attendance in general in the Northeast has plummeted over the years. My first college football game was going with my Father to the Princeton-Rutgers game(first game played in 1869) in 1964 at old Palmer Stadium to an almost sold out crowd of 40,000....of course Princeton was nationally ranked(#10 , I think) and recruited sons of coal miners from Pennsylvania instead of sons of investment bankers from New Canaan. Princeton now is lucky to get over 5000 as an FCS team.