FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

One factor I think the Bombers have on their side is Wingfield. He just seems to be a winner and maximizes his given talents and looks like a leader on the field(I have no idea whether he really is, but he looks like it). As an opponent , I  wish he were on my side. Technically Germinerio had better skills, but when it came to crunch time he could not lead the Bombers past Union or RPI for the LL title.  Nabi(also had Jersey No.6) gave me that same feeling when he led the Bombers to two LL Co-Championships. I wonder what Nabi could have done in his senior year without the Germinerio trade (oops, I mean transfer).

I went back and re watched some of the post game interviews that coach terp and Wingfield did with Frank Rossi and two things were abundantly clear - one is that they definitely believe that RPI is their toughest in conference opponent and getting a win in Troy meant a tremendous amount of to the program. Two is that Wingfield is the unquestioned leader of that team and they really feed off of him and his composure, that was very clear during that drive at the end of the 4th quarter to take the 3 point lead. I think now they have to rely on that experience and leadership to not have a let down against Union after an incredibly emotional physical game (they both essentially said that this was the most physical game of the year and that RPI always brings it). They need to be able to close the door on a somewhat historic win and get ready for a hungry little brother.

ICAlum, I just gave you a +k , to see if it registered( and you deserve it in general) , because I noticed your post # never seems to change from 22. Hmmm, sure you're not a bot for the IC Athletic Dept??

Haha, thank you, Bartman, +k for you as well. Not sure why the number of posts doesn't increase maybe it reads off of quote replies versus regulars posts. Either way, I can assure you I am not an IC athletic department plant, just a passionate alum who has either been involved in (on sideline as a back up or actually contributing on field) or watched essentially every single IC game since my freshman year on the South Hill in the fall of 2012.

I just try to be as objective as possible and trust my eyes while managing my love for the team and the school that did mean and still does mean a lot to me.

Thanks for your background and support for your Bombers.......your post # went up to 23, so I guess you're legit, but it won't make me feel a bit sad for you when Union wins on Saturday and the LL race is thrown into chaos.With that, since you started it , my picks follow:


Bombers.          24.        l_Z_l             21.          I'm rooting for Union, but I have to stay ahead of IB on total picks

Buff State.        10.        SlideRulers.   49.          RPI wins in front of 0 fans again( hey, that's what they reported last week,
                                                                       and we know Engineers are good at numbers!)

Bert the Hawk    10.        Pumpkins.      52.         Hilbert bettors ecstatic as they beat the point spread

Yellow fever        35.      SLUmen.        21.          The top of the bottom is solidified           

The race for second place and an ECAC game starts.

[Pat Coleman]

One factor I think the Bombers have on their side is Wingfield. He just seems to be a winner and maximizes his given talents and looks like a leader on the field(I have no idea whether he really is, but he looks like it). As an opponent , I  wish he were on my side. Technically Germinerio had better skills, but when it came to crunch time he could not lead the Bombers past Union or RPI for the LL title.  Nabi(also had Jersey No.6) gave me that same feeling when he led the Bombers to two LL Co-Championships. I wonder what Nabi could have done in his senior year without the Germinerio trade (oops, I mean transfer).

I went back and re watched some of the post game interviews that coach terp and Wingfield did with Frank Rossi and two things were abundantly clear - one is that they definitely believe that RPI is their toughest in conference opponent and getting a win in Troy meant a tremendous amount of to the program. Two is that Wingfield is the unquestioned leader of that team and they really feed off of him and his composure, that was very clear during that drive at the end of the 4th quarter to take the 3 point lead. I think now they have to rely on that experience and leadership to not have a let down against Union after an incredibly emotional physical game (they both essentially said that this was the most physical game of the year and that RPI always brings it). They need to be able to close the door on a somewhat historic win and get ready for a hungry little brother.

ICAlum, I just gave you a +k , to see if it registered( and you deserve it in general) , because I noticed your post # never seems to change from 22. Hmmm, sure you're not a bot for the IC Athletic Dept??

You would see the same 23 on all 23 of his posts. Then once they make post No. 24, you'd see 24 on all 24 of their posts.

[Ice Bear]

+k to ICAlum and Bartman for the great discussion/predictions/etc.

Honestly fellas I am just hoping for Union to give IC a game. Last season was really tough (obviously grateful we are not in the 0-10 days, but tough relative to what it was) starting out so promising against some inferior opponents, having a devastating comeback loss to Utica, and then really falling flat against the big three. I can't help but worry about a similar series of events happening again here in 2023. I do believe we are better than last year but I have no clue how much better. There just isn't that data against high quality opponents to dismiss my fears no matter what I've seen on the field thus far. On top of that this past weekend really concerns me. Who knows maybe I'm off base. I'm proud of what these players have done thus far for the most part and do believe they can beat IC. I just don't think more than half of me believes it is all. Maybe something like 35/65.

IC has come through all but once this season, against tough competition, finding ways to win football games. They have a pedigree and a great homefield advantage. Union is going to have to be as close to perfect as possible to walk out of Butterfield with a W. I'd love for my Garnet to prove me wrong here.

Regardless, this is once again another very exciting point in the LL season. I love this league.

[Jonny Utah]

You're probably right about some of these pickers, but I suspect that most of them take the same approach that I do. I check each of the teams to see who and where they played, whether they won or lost and by how much, and where the game in question is being played. I admit to not checking offensive or defensive stats, or TOP, but I get an idea about those because I check in here pretty frequently (and the E8, because you guys cross-reference a lot) to see what all of you think and what you might know that I wouldn't. Then I mash it all together and make my pick. In this case I picked Ithaca, but it was my third-least confident pick because there's a part of me that believed RPI might win.
   Anyway, that's a wordy way of saying that there are a lot of us out here that pay attention to more than our "home" board and have a pretty fair handle on what's going on in the D3 world.

Does Pat really let people vote in the top 25 poll without even looking at TOP?  Do better HSCTiger74!

[HSCTiger74]

You're probably right about some of these pickers, but I suspect that most of them take the same approach that I do. I check each of the teams to see who and where they played, whether they won or lost and by how much, and where the game in question is being played. I admit to not checking offensive or defensive stats, or TOP, but I get an idea about those because I check in here pretty frequently (and the E8, because you guys cross-reference a lot) to see what all of you think and what you might know that I wouldn't. Then I mash it all together and make my pick. In this case I picked Ithaca, but it was my third-least confident pick because there's a part of me that believed RPI might win.
   Anyway, that's a wordy way of saying that there are a lot of us out here that pay attention to more than our "home" board and have a pretty fair handle on what's going on in the D3 world.

Does Pat really let people vote in the top 25 poll without even looking at TOP?  Do better HSCTiger74!

   I was actually thinking about all those LL discussions when I threw that part in Utah, but I can't claim to be a Top 25 voter. That response was in reference to my picks in the National Confidence pick-'ems. Pat would bust a gut laughing if anyone suggested I should be allowed to vote in the official Top 25.

[Jonny Utah]

You're probably right about some of these pickers, but I suspect that most of them take the same approach that I do. I check each of the teams to see who and where they played, whether they won or lost and by how much, and where the game in question is being played. I admit to not checking offensive or defensive stats, or TOP, but I get an idea about those because I check in here pretty frequently (and the E8, because you guys cross-reference a lot) to see what all of you think and what you might know that I wouldn't. Then I mash it all together and make my pick. In this case I picked Ithaca, but it was my third-least confident pick because there's a part of me that believed RPI might win.
   Anyway, that's a wordy way of saying that there are a lot of us out here that pay attention to more than our "home" board and have a pretty fair handle on what's going on in the D3 world.

Does Pat really let people vote in the top 25 poll without even looking at TOP?  Do better HSCTiger74!

   I was actually thinking about all those LL discussions when I threw that part in Utah, but I can't claim to be a Top 25 voter. That response was in reference to my picks in the National Confidence pick-'ems. Pat would bust a gut laughing if anyone suggested I should be allowed to vote in the official Top 25.

Haha ok you are in the clear.  I'll put you on the TOP email list then.

[Bartman]

For what it's worth,  versusports has Ithaca ranked #4 and Union ranked #12. I'm doing a deep dive on the results for each offense in each game. What happened to the Ithaca running game against Alfred( IC only gained 3.0 per run? Although the Saxons are scrappy,  I thought the Ithaca Oline would roll in that game , but not so. I think this might portend well for the Union defense. In the RPI game , the Engineers had 7.9 per pass and sure moved the ball passing on the last regulation drive, but had an average 3.9 per run(fixed previous post) . This could be a good sign for the Union passing game. While I still think Ithaca has the edge, if the Chargers are fully charged, my hopeful chaos scenario is still very possible for the rest of the LL season.

[Jonny Utah]

For what it's worth,  versusports has Ithaca ranked #4 and Union ranked #12. I'm doing a deep dive on the results for each offense in each game. What happened to the Ithaca running game against Alfred? Although the Saxons are scrappy,  I thought the Ithaca Oline would roll in that game , but not so. I think this might portend well for the Union defense. In the RPI game , the Engineers had a 7+yards  per run against the Bombers and sure moved the ball passing on the last regulation drive. This could be a good sign for the Union passing game. While I still think Ithaca has the edge, if the Chargers are fully charged, my hopeful chaos scenario is still very possible for the rest of the LL season.

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game.  In 2022 Williams finished 3rd in rushing yards in the LL and 7th in YPG.  He is an inside zone runner that has some power.  He isn't a speed guy, but my thoughts on the last few games is that Ithaca had to figure out how to incorporate two other great runners (Hines and Jalen-Osborne) into their base offense.  I can't say for sure it has hurt them, but it has to be a small factor getting those other two guys up to speed.  Ithaca ends up having 218 and 219 yards rushing vs. Hobart and RPI respectively.  Those are Ithaca's two top rushing games of the season as well. 

Wingfields rushing stats vary a little, as his best game was vs RPI last week.  Here are his rushing stats this season

(Carries and Yards)

JHU 10-53
END 8-30
ALF 4-6
HOB 10-29
RPI 15- 101

The team stats are still tough to take a serious look at because of some non league games, but the LL has TOP stats on their webpage so shoutout to them:

1   St. Lawrence   5   168:47   33:45
2   RPI                   5   159:54   31:58
3   Union           6   191:51   31:58
4   Hobart           5   157:12   31:26
5   Ithaca           5   153:03   30:36
6   Buffalo State   5   146:09   29:13
7   Rochester           6   166:40   27:46

[Bartman]

For what it's worth,  versusports has Ithaca ranked #4 and Union ranked #12. I'm doing a deep dive on the results for each offense in each game. What happened to the Ithaca running game against Alfred? Although the Saxons are scrappy,  I thought the Ithaca Oline would roll in that game , but not so. I think this might portend well for the Union defense. In the RPI game , the Engineers had a 7+yards  per run against the Bombers and sure moved the ball passing on the last regulation drive. This could be a good sign for the Union passing game. While I still think Ithaca has the edge, if the Chargers are fully charged, my hopeful chaos scenario is still very possible for the rest of the LL season.

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game.  In 2022 Williams finished 3rd in rushing yards in the LL and 7th in YPG.  He is an inside zone runner that has some power.  He isn't a speed guy, but my thoughts on the last few games is that Ithaca had to figure out how to incorporate two other great runners (Hines and Jalen-Osborne) into their base offense.  I can't say for sure it has hurt them, but it has to be a small factor getting those other two guys up to speed.  Ithaca ends up having 218 and 219 yards rushing vs. Hobart and RPI respectively.  Those are Ithaca's two top rushing games of the season as well. 

Wingfields rushing stats vary a little, as his best game was vs RPI last week.  Here are his rushing stats this season

(Carries and Yards)

JHU 10-53
END 8-30
ALF 4-6
HOB 10-29
RPI 15- 101

The team stats are still tough to take a serious look at because of some non league games, but the LL has TOP stats on their webpage so shoutout to them:

1   St. Lawrence   5   168:47   33:45
2   RPI                   5   159:54   31:58
3   Union           6   191:51   31:58
4   Hobart           5   157:12   31:26
5   Ithaca           5   153:03   30:36
6   Buffalo State   5   146:09   29:13
7   Rochester           6   166:40   27:46

It looks to me that Wingfield stepped up in the biggest game of the year(to that point) against RPI. He is a winner and he will beat you if you let him. Hobart's Defense had a plan to contain him, since he's killed us in the past(one of our ILB keyed on him all day). Hobart blew it on one play giving up a 79 yard TD, otherwise Coach Green , our DC, had a pretty good game plan( Special teams let us down) I think containing Wingfield will be key for Union. I think Union can run on the Bombers . It's a cliche , but it will come down to turnovers at critical points in the game. Ithaca has a +.8 TO Margin against tougher competition and Union has a + 1.17, so they both are decent at protecting the ball, it comes down to a critical point where a TO results in a score.....Hobart found that out.

[Machiavelli]

Saw a little of the RPI game from my phone this weekend. RPI should have won the game. Pretty brutal ending and they gave it away. Ithaca played tough and pulled off the magic though and didn't choke it away. RPI losing it's sole Top 25 vote is laughable after losing by 3 in OT to the 15th ranked team in a game they gave away. But it is what it is. Clearly the voters have been reading our boards though since Endicott finally hopped over HSU. Anyway, as horrible as it sounds, I'm hoping for a Union win this week to make things interesting, although I think Ithaca handles them.

Very under the weather and lacking any motivation and/or wit, so I'll just drop a few qick amazingly sexy predictions for this week:

Ithaca - 24
Union - 10
Union's struggles last week were a surprise, so maybe they were looking a little overrated early. Will find out Saterday.

RPI - 49
Buff State - 6
I have to assume RPI is pissed about choking last week and Buff State gets the repercussions.

Rochester - 35
St. Lawrence - 17
Rochester continues to impress. St. Lawrence continues to stink.

Hobart - 112
Dilbert - 0
So sick of these matchups.

We stink.

Also wanted to call out my Cortland/Utica prediction from last week. Just makes me laugh regarding the Top 25 voter hype about Utica. I just don't get it. But I digress.

Piece.

[UfanBill]

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game. 

Unfortunately injuries are are part of sports, especially football. I want all these student athletes to be healthy enough to play the sport they love so I'd like to see Williams on the field Saturday.

Union also has had significant injuries. Mostly on offense. The defense has remained largely injury free.(hope I didn't jinx it)... 5th year senior 2 time captain and 2 time all LL #51 Stan Koss has missed all of this season so far though there is hope he can play, maybe this week, as he is back to practice and actually suited up against Rochester. He has been a rock at RT for Union in the past and he'd be welcomed back. In his stead #66 Kyle Webster has played very well. The Union O-line has taken other injury hits. Starting center #77 Nick Olivola has missed time but #70 Jake Rubin has stepped in nicely and at left guard #76 Luke Rader has missed the last couple of games. He's replaced by #57 Dan Haramis , so that's 3 starters down....WR #3 Landers Green who had just become the Union go to guy didn't play last week and it showed though #88 Owen Corrigan shined in his place. Next man up. Green is hopeful to play Saturday. And the Union backfield took an early season hit when RB John Rust, coming off an 85 yd/1 TD performance in the opener abruptly was not on the roster week#2      No excuses. Union has recruited well, built depth and practiced hard to cope with these unfortunate scenarios. 

[unionpalooza]

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game. 

Unfortunately injuries are are part of sports, especially football. I want all these student athletes to be healthy enough to play the sport they love so I'd like to see Williams on the field Saturday.

Union also has had significant injuries. Mostly on offense. The defense has remained largely injury free.(hope I didn't jinx it)... 5th year senior 2 time captain and 2 time all LL #51 Stan Koss has missed all of this season so far though there is hope he can play, maybe this week, as he is back to practice and actually suited up against Rochester. He has been a rock at RT for Union in the past and he'd be welcomed back. In his stead #66 Kyle Webster has played very well. The Union O-line has taken other injury hits. Starting center #77 Nick Olivola has missed time but #70 Jake Rubin has stepped in nicely and at left guard #76 Luke Rader has missed the last couple of games. He's replaced by #57 Dan Haramis , so that's 3 starters down....WR #3 Landers Green who had just become the Union go to guy didn't play last week and it showed though #88 Owen Corrigan shined in his place. Next man up. Green is hopeful to play Saturday. And the Union backfield took an early season hit when RB John Rust, coming off an 85 yd/1 TD performance in the opener abruptly was not on the roster week#2      No excuses. Union has recruited well, built depth and practiced hard to cope with these unfortunate scenarios.

I agree Union has embraced the next man up philosophy nicely.  That said, I'm not sure you help the team by publicly suggesting who will/won't suit up this weekend (or any weekend).  For those close to a program, there can and should be a difference between what you learn and what you share publicly.

[Jonny Utah]

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game. 

Unfortunately injuries are are part of sports, especially football. I want all these student athletes to be healthy enough to play the sport they love so I'd like to see Williams on the field Saturday.

Union also has had significant injuries. Mostly on offense. The defense has remained largely injury free.(hope I didn't jinx it)... 5th year senior 2 time captain and 2 time all LL #51 Stan Koss has missed all of this season so far though there is hope he can play, maybe this week, as he is back to practice and actually suited up against Rochester. He has been a rock at RT for Union in the past and he'd be welcomed back. In his stead #66 Kyle Webster has played very well. The Union O-line has taken other injury hits. Starting center #77 Nick Olivola has missed time but #70 Jake Rubin has stepped in nicely and at left guard #76 Luke Rader has missed the last couple of games. He's replaced by #57 Dan Haramis , so that's 3 starters down....WR #3 Landers Green who had just become the Union go to guy didn't play last week and it showed though #88 Owen Corrigan shined in his place. Next man up. Green is hopeful to play Saturday. And the Union backfield took an early season hit when RB John Rust, coming off an 85 yd/1 TD performance in the opener abruptly was not on the roster week#2      No excuses. Union has recruited well, built depth and practiced hard to cope with these unfortunate scenarios.

Yea I was not trying to make excuses, only addressing Bartman's question on Ithaca's running game vs. Alfred.  If you look at the numbers, Ithaca may be better with a Hines/Jalen-Osborne rotation.

[Bartman]

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game. 

Unfortunately injuries are are part of sports, especially football. I want all these student athletes to be healthy enough to play the sport they love so I'd like to see Williams on the field Saturday.

Union also has had significant injuries. Mostly on offense. The defense has remained largely injury free.(hope I didn't jinx it)... 5th year senior 2 time captain and 2 time all LL #51 Stan Koss has missed all of this season so far though there is hope he can play, maybe this week, as he is back to practice and actually suited up against Rochester. He has been a rock at RT for Union in the past and he'd be welcomed back. In his stead #66 Kyle Webster has played very well. The Union O-line has taken other injury hits. Starting center #77 Nick Olivola has missed time but #70 Jake Rubin has stepped in nicely and at left guard #76 Luke Rader has missed the last couple of games. He's replaced by #57 Dan Haramis , so that's 3 starters down....WR #3 Landers Green who had just become the Union go to guy didn't play last week and it showed though #88 Owen Corrigan shined in his place. Next man up. Green is hopeful to play Saturday. And the Union backfield took an early season hit when RB John Rust, coming off an 85 yd/1 TD performance in the opener abruptly was not on the roster week#2      No excuses. Union has recruited well, built depth and practiced hard to cope with these unfortunate scenarios.

Yea I was not trying to make excuses, only addressing Bartman's question on Ithaca's running game vs. Alfred.  If you look at the numbers, Ithaca may be better with a Hines/Jalen-Osborne rotation.

Jonny U, Thanks for your insights, it looks like Ithaca has adjusted quite nicely to the current tandem. What's the status of Jake Williams?

[Jonny Utah]

So Jake Williams (Ithaca's #1 RB) gets hurt in the 4th quarter of the Endicott game. 

Unfortunately injuries are are part of sports, especially football. I want all these student athletes to be healthy enough to play the sport they love so I'd like to see Williams on the field Saturday.

Union also has had significant injuries. Mostly on offense. The defense has remained largely injury free.(hope I didn't jinx it)... 5th year senior 2 time captain and 2 time all LL #51 Stan Koss has missed all of this season so far though there is hope he can play, maybe this week, as he is back to practice and actually suited up against Rochester. He has been a rock at RT for Union in the past and he'd be welcomed back. In his stead #66 Kyle Webster has played very well. The Union O-line has taken other injury hits. Starting center #77 Nick Olivola has missed time but #70 Jake Rubin has stepped in nicely and at left guard #76 Luke Rader has missed the last couple of games. He's replaced by #57 Dan Haramis , so that's 3 starters down....WR #3 Landers Green who had just become the Union go to guy didn't play last week and it showed though #88 Owen Corrigan shined in his place. Next man up. Green is hopeful to play Saturday. And the Union backfield took an early season hit when RB John Rust, coming off an 85 yd/1 TD performance in the opener abruptly was not on the roster week#2      No excuses. Union has recruited well, built depth and practiced hard to cope with these unfortunate scenarios.

Yea I was not trying to make excuses, only addressing Bartman's question on Ithaca's running game vs. Alfred.  If you look at the numbers, Ithaca may be better with a Hines/Jalen-Osborne rotation.

Jonny U, Thanks for your insights, it looks like Ithaca has adjusted quite nicely to the current tandem. What's the status of Jake Williams?

I am not sure.