FB: Liberty League

[IC798891]

Philosophical question:

If a team receives second place votes from every voter in the poll, but through some weird coincidence, still winds up as the #1 team due to having the most points (which is technically possible) would you consider that team to be the #1 team in the country?

Yes.  It sounds like you are talking about pollsters all voting the team #2 at #2, but the #1 team and #3 team are splitting votes at #1 and #3?

Like if there were 100 voters.  50 voters had Georgia at #1, 50 voters had Washington at #1, and all 100 voters had Michigan at #2, with the same 50/50 split having Georgia and Washington at #3?

I think it'd mathematically be:

Team A gets all the #2 votes
Teams B and C spilt #1 and #4 votes
Team D gets all the #3 votes

But yes.

Similar question:

If your wrestling teams wins all 10 individual championships at the NCAAs but finishes 2nd overall in points, do they have a rightful claim as the best wrestling team in the country?

[Jonny Utah]

For fun, I looked at the most recent times IC had to make a midseason QB switch, for any reason. Not a "We've got two QBs and no one has won the job", but a permanent switch.

2017:
Out: Adam Fron
In: Wahid Nabi

Nabi game in during the second game of the season and helped provide a spark to IC's offense, with a school-record six TD passes against Cortland.

2013
Out: Phil Neumann
In: Tom Dempsey

Neumann, a senior, had thrown for 4 TD and 4 INT with a 56% completion rate when Tom Dempsey stepped in — I believe due to an injury. Dempsey finished the year with a 14/8 TD/INT rate and a 61% completion percentage, guiding the Bombers to their first playoff win in a decade

2008:
Out: Dan Juvan
In: Brian Grastorf

Also a senior, Juvan was injured in the second to last game of the season. In stepped Grastorf, who helped finish off Alfred, and hung 5 TDs on Cortland. The Bombers would lose in the opening round of the NCAAS

2002:
Out: Ryan Steenberg
In: Josh Felicetti

The GOAT QB1 in Ithaca history came off the bench as a freshman in Week 2 and sparked a comeback win over Hartwick. Briefly injured midseason, when he returned, he kept the job for good, and re-wrote IC's record book.

2001:
Out: Brian Young
In: Greg Sheeler

Probably the closest to what they are dealing with today. Young, who had been QB1 for nearly three years, was injured in Ithaca's opening round playoff game. Greg Sheeler, a senior who had started zero games in his career, stepped in, and finished off Montclair. He then guided the Bombers to what I still consider Mike Welch's greatest game ever. With Sheeler making his first ever start, on the road, against an undefeated RPI, Sheeler throws for an IC-playoff record 268 yards, IC wins the the TOP battle by having the ball for 22 minutes in the second half

Yea I guess we will find out.  Ithaca I'm guessing is going with the freshman Colin Schumm.  He is a big guy who Ithaca has had run in the limited time he has had this year (which tells me he isn't a "pro style QB" at the very least.  I have zero clue what else he has. 

[Bartman]

I am glad the board was down after the game or else I would have had so much harsher words to use to describe that game. All I am going to say is that is why Union is little brother and will always be little brother. The game was not nearly as close as the score indicated. Both teams were plagued by the weather and great teams (Bombers) capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents. Both teams had sloppy penalties and obviously Osbourne let it get to him on his TD run that was called back for taunting.

You could tell by the reactions of players like Wingfield during the game that Union was doing some less than brotherly things in the pile and I am not saying that is what lead to the Wingfield injury but I do think their style of play towards the end of that game absolutely played a factor. Watching that game brought back a lot of great memories of beating Union and reminding them why they will never have a program like Ithaca.

I am so excited to continue to beat them year after year after year after year. Let's go win the LL next week.

Congrats on the win, but less the brotherly?  Total bullsh*t.  I have never seen a team whine after each play as much as IC. They did the same at RPI. But sure, they're special saints. 

And no, neither Union nor RPI will ever have a program like Ithaca, because neither will ever have a 73% acceptance rate.  It is what it is.

Geez, I didn't realize the Union fans on the board were so sensitive. The acceptance rate comment is saying like my dad can beat up your dad. Ice Bear where did your comment go? We're playing football here guys with two historic rivals. Of course a chippy game is going to bring out some trash talk. This is a football forum fulll of passionate and biased fans, not a PTA meeting. I stand by what I said when it comes to the Union football team and wouldn't take back a thing. The reason I never had this kind of vitriol for RPI is because they are a clean program and won games with class and lost with class. Plus you never saw IC take cheap shots as RPI or Hopkins or NCC were kneeling the ball out to end the game. Things like that separate good from great.

With that I move on and focus on what is going to be a tough test with Rochester. I really don't know much about the YellowJackets but I am sure Coach Toerp will make sure that they are not being overlooked or taken lightly. This is where having an experienced and battled tested team really shows what they are all about... Union should take notes. Ok fine, I couldn't help myself from taking one more shot at the Garnett Chargers.

While I prefer to keep the board focused on the football aspects of the LL, I'll jump in here. Any of us who played knows that there are assholes that play this physical , violent and sometimes dangerous game. No schools are totally clean of the "bad boys" over the many years this game has been played. Some schools have a reputation that has been earned based on incidents over the years. Just share some beers at alumni events to hear these stories that have often become tall tales.
   My short story occurred during my second game(many years ago) playing Freshman football against Ithaca. When snapping the ball for a punt, the IC lineman threw dirt in my eyes, blinding me for a few seconds while his teammate leveled me laughing the whole time . The good news was my big brother on the line was an All NJ Private school beast from Delbarton who made that IC lineman his "little brother " the rest of the game. I hated Ithaca for years until I met a beautiful Alto trained singer(I'm a much better tenor than a center) from IC who impressed me with the academic quality of her IC experience. Since then I prefer to remember the Alto instead of the asshole when I think of Ithaca.
   Now on the academic/acceptance front , EVERY private college in the Northeast has had significant struggles to maintain quality as the pool of students dwindles. Focusing on this should lead you to the NESCAC board, where a bunch of Union grads think they should be.
     BTW.....Uof R is the most selective school in the LL with a 39% acceptance rate(rates for Union and RPI are much higher than the past), and somehow the Yellowjackets are fielding a pretty good team......maybe even good enough to throw the LL into chaos. 

[Ice Bear]

I am glad the board was down after the game or else I would have had so much harsher words to use to describe that game. All I am going to say is that is why Union is little brother and will always be little brother. The game was not nearly as close as the score indicated. Both teams were plagued by the weather and great teams (Bombers) capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents. Both teams had sloppy penalties and obviously Osbourne let it get to him on his TD run that was called back for taunting.

You could tell by the reactions of players like Wingfield during the game that Union was doing some less than brotherly things in the pile and I am not saying that is what lead to the Wingfield injury but I do think their style of play towards the end of that game absolutely played a factor. Watching that game brought back a lot of great memories of beating Union and reminding them why they will never have a program like Ithaca.

I am so excited to continue to beat them year after year after year after year. Let's go win the LL next week.

Congrats on the win, but less the brotherly?  Total bullsh*t.  I have never seen a team whine after each play as much as IC. They did the same at RPI. But sure, they're special saints. 

And no, neither Union nor RPI will ever have a program like Ithaca, because neither will ever have a 73% acceptance rate.  It is what it is.

Geez, I didn't realize the Union fans on the board were so sensitive. The acceptance rate comment is saying like my dad can beat up your dad. Ice Bear where did your comment go? We're playing football here guys with two historic rivals. Of course a chippy game is going to bring out some trash talk. This is a football forum fulll of passionate and biased fans, not a PTA meeting. I stand by what I said when it comes to the Union football team and wouldn't take back a thing. The reason I never had this kind of vitriol for RPI is because they are a clean program and won games with class and lost with class. Plus you never saw IC take cheap shots as RPI or Hopkins or NCC were kneeling the ball out to end the game. Things like that separate good from great.

With that I move on and focus on what is going to be a tough test with Rochester. I really don't know much about the YellowJackets but I am sure Coach Toerp will make sure that they are not being overlooked or taken lightly. This is where having an experienced and battled tested team really shows what they are all about... Union should take notes. Ok fine, I couldn't help myself from taking one more shot at the Garnett Chargers.

Took it down. Shouldn't have wasted my time biting. Not worth it man. All good. Do your thing.

[ICAlum16]

I am glad the board was down after the game or else I would have had so much harsher words to use to describe that game. All I am going to say is that is why Union is little brother and will always be little brother. The game was not nearly as close as the score indicated. Both teams were plagued by the weather and great teams (Bombers) capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents. Both teams had sloppy penalties and obviously Osbourne let it get to him on his TD run that was called back for taunting.

You could tell by the reactions of players like Wingfield during the game that Union was doing some less than brotherly things in the pile and I am not saying that is what lead to the Wingfield injury but I do think their style of play towards the end of that game absolutely played a factor. Watching that game brought back a lot of great memories of beating Union and reminding them why they will never have a program like Ithaca.

I am so excited to continue to beat them year after year after year after year. Let's go win the LL next week.

Congrats on the win, but less the brotherly?  Total bullsh*t.  I have never seen a team whine after each play as much as IC. They did the same at RPI. But sure, they're special saints. 

And no, neither Union nor RPI will ever have a program like Ithaca, because neither will ever have a 73% acceptance rate.  It is what it is.

Geez, I didn't realize the Union fans on the board were so sensitive. The acceptance rate comment is saying like my dad can beat up your dad. Ice Bear where did your comment go? We're playing football here guys with two historic rivals. Of course a chippy game is going to bring out some trash talk. This is a football forum fulll of passionate and biased fans, not a PTA meeting. I stand by what I said when it comes to the Union football team and wouldn't take back a thing. The reason I never had this kind of vitriol for RPI is because they are a clean program and won games with class and lost with class. Plus you never saw IC take cheap shots as RPI or Hopkins or NCC were kneeling the ball out to end the game. Things like that separate good from great.

With that I move on and focus on what is going to be a tough test with Rochester. I really don't know much about the YellowJackets but I am sure Coach Toerp will make sure that they are not being overlooked or taken lightly. This is where having an experienced and battled tested team really shows what they are all about... Union should take notes. Ok fine, I couldn't help myself from taking one more shot at the Garnett Chargers.

While I prefer to keep the board focused on the football aspects of the LL, I'll jump in here. Any of us who played knows that there are assholes that play this physical , violent and sometimes dangerous game. No schools are totally clean of the "bad boys" over the many years this game has been played. Some schools have a reputation that has been earned based on incidents over the years. Just share some beers at alumni events to hear these stories that have often become tall tales.
   My short story occurred during my second game(many years ago) playing Freshman football against Ithaca. When snapping the ball for a punt, the IC lineman threw dirt in my eyes, blinding me for a few seconds while his teammate leveled me laughing the whole time . The good news was my big brother on the line was an All NJ Private school beast from Delbarton who made that IC lineman his "little brother " the rest of the game. I hated Ithaca for years until I met a beautiful Alto trained singer(I'm a much better tenor than a center) from IC who impressed me with the academic quality of her IC experience. Since then I prefer to remember the Alto instead of the asshole when I think of Ithaca.
   Now on the academic/acceptance front , EVERY private college in the Northeast has had significant struggles to maintain quality as the pool of students dwindles. Focusing on this should lead you to the NESCAC board, where a bunch of Union grads think they should be.
     BTW.....Uof R is the most selective school in the LL with a 39% acceptance rate(rates for Union and RPI are much higher than the past), and somehow the Yellowjackets are fielding a pretty good team......maybe even good enough to throw the LL into chaos.

I did not think this was going to be such a big deal and trigger everyone. Again, this is a football board we are allowed to get passionate and talk crap about our rivals. Had Union won (which probably won't happen for sometime) I would expect the same exact thing. I respect all the teams and everyone on the board but when you win a game like that you celebrate. I will note during my time playing for the Bombers the dirtiest team to play against was absolutely Utica but that is a discussion for a different day.

Anyway we can all go back to singing campfire songs now. It is time to focus on the Ithac QB situation and how we matchup against Rochester.

[Ice Bear]

In the past I've bought into the "acceptance rate" deal. Now my feeling is that I personally don't think it really has a place here, JMHO. Win, get better, no excuses. Every school has its challenges and advantages. IC owns us on the football field. That won't change until...Union changes it.

[ICAlum16]

For fun, I looked at the most recent times IC had to make a midseason QB switch, for any reason. Not a "We've got two QBs and no one has won the job", but a permanent switch.

2017:
Out: Adam Fron
In: Wahid Nabi

Nabi game in during the second game of the season and helped provide a spark to IC's offense, with a school-record six TD passes against Cortland.

2013
Out: Phil Neumann
In: Tom Dempsey

Neumann, a senior, had thrown for 4 TD and 4 INT with a 56% completion rate when Tom Dempsey stepped in — I believe due to an injury. Dempsey finished the year with a 14/8 TD/INT rate and a 61% completion percentage, guiding the Bombers to their first playoff win in a decade

2008:
Out: Dan Juvan
In: Brian Grastorf

Also a senior, Juvan was injured in the second to last game of the season. In stepped Grastorf, who helped finish off Alfred, and hung 5 TDs on Cortland. The Bombers would lose in the opening round of the NCAAS

2002:
Out: Ryan Steenberg
In: Josh Felicetti

The GOAT QB1 in Ithaca history came off the bench as a freshman in Week 2 and sparked a comeback win over Hartwick. Briefly injured midseason, when he returned, he kept the job for good, and re-wrote IC's record book.

2001:
Out: Brian Young
In: Greg Sheeler

Probably the closest to what they are dealing with today. Young, who had been QB1 for nearly three years, was injured in Ithaca's opening round playoff game. Greg Sheeler, a senior who had started zero games in his career, stepped in, and finished off Montclair. He then guided the Bombers to what I still consider Mike Welch's greatest game ever. With Sheeler making his first ever start, on the road, against an undefeated RPI, Sheeler throws for an IC-playoff record 268 yards, IC wins the the TOP battle by having the ball for 22 minutes in the second half

Thanks for posting this IC79 this is super interesting. I was on the team during the Neumann and Dempsey switch and that was purely injury based during the Hartwick game of 2013 (Hartwick won that game and went 6-4 that year). Neumann definitely fit the mold of your traditional Welch QB, especially at that time in Coach Welch's career but Dempsey's stronger arm and ability to create a little bit more really sparked us that year to our first conference title and second round playoff appearance.

Also just anecdotally, while I never got to see Dan Juvan play, I think Coach Welch would reference him at least once every other week. I am sure he was a hell of a player.

Does anyone have any insight into the seriousness of Wingfield at this time? Did I miss a post that verified how long he would be out? Hopefully we are all just speculating here and will be pleasantly surprised either this Saturday or the following Saturday with who lines up under center. I know I have been critical of Wingfield this year but he is a winner and the unquestioned leader of this team. He has a very calming presence when he is under center and really earned everyones respect this season. Hope he is ok.

[IC798891]

For fun, I looked at the most recent times IC had to make a midseason QB switch, for any reason. Not a "We've got two QBs and no one has won the job", but a permanent switch.

2017:
Out: Adam Fron
In: Wahid Nabi

Nabi game in during the second game of the season and helped provide a spark to IC's offense, with a school-record six TD passes against Cortland.

2013
Out: Phil Neumann
In: Tom Dempsey

Neumann, a senior, had thrown for 4 TD and 4 INT with a 56% completion rate when Tom Dempsey stepped in — I believe due to an injury. Dempsey finished the year with a 14/8 TD/INT rate and a 61% completion percentage, guiding the Bombers to their first playoff win in a decade

2008:
Out: Dan Juvan
In: Brian Grastorf

Also a senior, Juvan was injured in the second to last game of the season. In stepped Grastorf, who helped finish off Alfred, and hung 5 TDs on Cortland. The Bombers would lose in the opening round of the NCAAS

2002:
Out: Ryan Steenberg
In: Josh Felicetti

The GOAT QB1 in Ithaca history came off the bench as a freshman in Week 2 and sparked a comeback win over Hartwick. Briefly injured midseason, when he returned, he kept the job for good, and re-wrote IC's record book.

2001:
Out: Brian Young
In: Greg Sheeler

Probably the closest to what they are dealing with today. Young, who had been QB1 for nearly three years, was injured in Ithaca's opening round playoff game. Greg Sheeler, a senior who had started zero games in his career, stepped in, and finished off Montclair. He then guided the Bombers to what I still consider Mike Welch's greatest game ever. With Sheeler making his first ever start, on the road, against an undefeated RPI, Sheeler throws for an IC-playoff record 268 yards, IC wins the the TOP battle by having the ball for 22 minutes in the second half

Thanks for posting this IC79 this is super interesting. I was on the team during the Neumann and Dempsey switch and that was purely injury based during the Hartwick game of 2013 (Hartwick won that game and went 6-4 that year). Neumann definitely fit the mold of your traditional Welch QB, especially at that time in Coach Welch's career but Dempsey's stronger arm and ability to create a little bit more really sparked us that year to our first conference title and second round playoff appearance.

Also just anecdotally, while I never got to see Dan Juvan play, I think Coach Welch would reference him at least once every other week. I am sure he was a hell of a player.

Does anyone have any insight into the seriousness of Wingfield at this time? Did I miss a post that verified how long he would be out? Hopefully we are all just speculating here and will be pleasantly surprised either this Saturday or the following Saturday with who lines up under center. I know I have been critical of Wingfield this year but he is a winner and the unquestioned leader of this team. He has a very calming presence when he is under center and really earned everyones respect this season. Hope he is ok.

The Neumann injury, while crappy like all injuries, ultimately probably provided an upgrade at QB.

Juvan was an amazing player.In 2007, Mount Union's first string defense had not allowed a single point all season. Juvan threw for three touchdowns against them. Elite talent

[unionpalooza]

I am glad the board was down after the game or else I would have had so much harsher words to use to describe that game. All I am going to say is that is why Union is little brother and will always be little brother. The game was not nearly as close as the score indicated. Both teams were plagued by the weather and great teams (Bombers) capitalize on the mistakes of their lesser opponents. Both teams had sloppy penalties and obviously Osbourne let it get to him on his TD run that was called back for taunting.

You could tell by the reactions of players like Wingfield during the game that Union was doing some less than brotherly things in the pile and I am not saying that is what lead to the Wingfield injury but I do think their style of play towards the end of that game absolutely played a factor. Watching that game brought back a lot of great memories of beating Union and reminding them why they will never have a program like Ithaca.

I am so excited to continue to beat them year after year after year after year. Let's go win the LL next week.

Congrats on the win, but less the brotherly?  Total bullsh*t.  I have never seen a team whine after each play as much as IC. They did the same at RPI. But sure, they're special saints. 

And no, neither Union nor RPI will ever have a program like Ithaca, because neither will ever have a 73% acceptance rate.  It is what it is.

Geez, I didn't realize the Union fans on the board were so sensitive. The acceptance rate comment is saying like my dad can beat up your dad. Ice Bear where did your comment go? We're playing football here guys with two historic rivals. Of course a chippy game is going to bring out some trash talk. This is a football forum fulll of passionate and biased fans, not a PTA meeting. I stand by what I said when it comes to the Union football team and wouldn't take back a thing. The reason I never had this kind of vitriol for RPI is because they are a clean program and won games with class and lost with class. Plus you never saw IC take cheap shots as RPI or Hopkins or NCC were kneeling the ball out to end the game. Things like that separate good from great.

With that I move on and focus on what is going to be a tough test with Rochester. I really don't know much about the YellowJackets but I am sure Coach Toerp will make sure that they are not being overlooked or taken lightly. This is where having an experienced and battled tested team really shows what they are all about... Union should take notes. Ok fine, I couldn't help myself from taking one more shot at the Garnett Chargers.

While I prefer to keep the board focused on the football aspects of the LL, I'll jump in here. Any of us who played knows that there are assholes that play this physical , violent and sometimes dangerous game. No schools are totally clean of the "bad boys" over the many years this game has been played. Some schools have a reputation that has been earned based on incidents over the years. Just share some beers at alumni events to hear these stories that have often become tall tales.
   My short story occurred during my second game(many years ago) playing Freshman football against Ithaca. When snapping the ball for a punt, the IC lineman threw dirt in my eyes, blinding me for a few seconds while his teammate leveled me laughing the whole time . The good news was my big brother on the line was an All NJ Private school beast from Delbarton who made that IC lineman his "little brother " the rest of the game. I hated Ithaca for years until I met a beautiful Alto trained singer(I'm a much better tenor than a center) from IC who impressed me with the academic quality of her IC experience. Since then I prefer to remember the Alto instead of the asshole when I think of Ithaca.
   Now on the academic/acceptance front , EVERY private college in the Northeast has had significant struggles to maintain quality as the pool of students dwindles. Focusing on this should lead you to the NESCAC board, where a bunch of Union grads think they should be.
     BTW.....Uof R is the most selective school in the LL with a 39% acceptance rate(rates for Union and RPI are much higher than the past), and somehow the Yellowjackets are fielding a pretty good team......maybe even good enough to throw the LL into chaos.

I did not think this was going to be such a big deal and trigger everyone. Again, this is a football board we are allowed to get passionate and talk crap about our rivals. Had Union won (which probably won't happen for sometime) I would expect the same exact thing. I respect all the teams and everyone on the board but when you win a game like that you celebrate. I will note during my time playing for the Bombers the dirtiest team to play against was absolutely Utica but that is a discussion for a different day.

Anyway we can all go back to singing campfire songs now. It is time to focus on the Ithac QB situation and how we matchup against Rochester.

You guys will have no problem against Roch.  When Union played them, even with Pacatte doing his best Zach Wilson impression and rendering Union one-dimensional, Union just ran over them.  Their offense has great skill guys but there is no world in which they put up more than 21 points on the IC D, which will not be enough.

The harder question is whether IC can handle Cortland if Wingfield can't play, and what kind of terrible first round matchup they'd get if they went into the tournament as a low seeded 7-3 team.  As hard as it is to believe, I'll be rooting for IC, because that will make the second place LL team (hopefully Union) a more viable Pool C candidate.

Speaking of, does anyone know enough about the playoff criteria to hazard a guess as to who has the better Pool C application among hypothetical 9-1 Union, RPI and Hobart teams? 

[unionpalooza]

Speaking of QBs, and maybe a question mostly for the Union folks, but is there a case you bench Pacatte and go with Patch Flanagan for a game or three?  His last two games, he is completing 45% of his passed for 150 yards per game with no TDS and 3 INTs.  Sure, he can run, but the offense has a low ceiling and is very one-dimensional when he's been up against a decent defense.  I kinda think Union might be better served going with Patch, who can also run (though more a Wingfield scrambler type) and (maybe?) can be accurate with his passes?

[Machiavelli]

Speaking of QBs, and maybe a question mostly for the Union folks, but is there a case you bench Pacatte and go with Patch Flanagan for a game or three?  His last two games, he is completing 45% of his passed for 150 yards per game with no TDS and 3 INTs.  Sure, he can run, but the offense has a low ceiling and is very one-dimensional when he's been up against a decent defense.  I kinda think Union might be better served going with Patch, who can also run (though more a Wingfield scrambler type) and (maybe?) can be accurate with his passes?

Union's next starting QB???

[Ice Bear]

Speaking of QBs, and maybe a question mostly for the Union folks, but is there a case you bench Pacatte and go with Patch Flanagan for a game or three?  His last two games, he is completing 45% of his passed for 150 yards per game with no TDS and 3 INTs.  Sure, he can run, but the offense has a low ceiling and is very one-dimensional when he's been up against a decent defense.  I kinda think Union might be better served going with Patch, who can also run (though more a Wingfield scrambler type) and (maybe?) can be accurate with his passes?

Great question Palooza. Since Rip has passed on and is no longer a viable option I think Patch should be considered if he has shown in practice (aside from his few moments last season) that he is able to provide a spark. Personally I was impressed by what I saw last season, but there obviously wasn't a large sample size there. Pacatte's accuracy issues have really hurt Union's offensive flow at times. We've got to throw the ball to be able to play with the big boys. I think at the very least, the coaching staff should take a look at that option.

[Caz Bombers]

Speaking of QBs, and maybe a question mostly for the Union folks, but is there a case you bench Pacatte and go with Patch Flanagan for a game or three?  His last two games, he is completing 45% of his passed for 150 yards per game with no TDS and 3 INTs.  Sure, he can run, but the offense has a low ceiling and is very one-dimensional when he's been up against a decent defense.  I kinda think Union might be better served going with Patch, who can also run (though more a Wingfield scrambler type) and (maybe?) can be accurate with his passes?

Great question Palooza. Since Rip has passed on and is no longer a viable option I think Patch should be considered if he has shown in practice (aside from his few moments last season) that he is able to provide a spark. Personally I was impressed by what I saw last season, but there obviously wasn't a large sample size there. Pacatte's accuracy issues have really hurt Union's offensive flow at times. We've got to throw the ball to be able to play with the big boys. I think at the very least, the coaching staff should take a look at that option.

Patch Flanagan? What kind of 1923 leather helmet ass name is that?

[Ice Bear]

Patch Flanagan is a nasty QB name IMHO...question is, is he a nasty QB?

[Jonny Utah]

Speaking of QBs, and maybe a question mostly for the Union folks, but is there a case you bench Pacatte and go with Patch Flanagan for a game or three?  His last two games, he is completing 45% of his passed for 150 yards per game with no TDS and 3 INTs.  Sure, he can run, but the offense has a low ceiling and is very one-dimensional when he's been up against a decent defense.  I kinda think Union might be better served going with Patch, who can also run (though more a Wingfield scrambler type) and (maybe?) can be accurate with his passes?

Great question Palooza. Since Rip has passed on and is no longer a viable option I think Patch should be considered if he has shown in practice (aside from his few moments last season) that he is able to provide a spark. Personally I was impressed by what I saw last season, but there obviously wasn't a large sample size there. Pacatte's accuracy issues have really hurt Union's offensive flow at times. We've got to throw the ball to be able to play with the big boys. I think at the very least, the coaching staff should take a look at that option.

I'm guessing Pacquette just had a few bad games and he has potential to be better.  I do think Union can adjust their run game.  most of their runs were inside zone, outside zone and a few GTs.  But one time Anderson lined up in what I recall was a pistol and Paquette opened up and Anderson took it hard up the field for a nice 8-10 yard run.  They did not seem to go back to that concept whatever it was and that was good for Ithaca.  then Union ran the QB GT which was big the first time they ran it, good the second time, then ok to bad the third and 4th time they ran it.  Maybe the offense just got into a play calling funk and that happens but I'm guessing they have the talent to mix it up at the end of the year and show that they are better than they were Saturday. 

Another okay I distinctly remember is Union inside the Ithaca 10 going right to left.  Union Wr ran a nice slant and Paquette just didn't want to zip it in there and he. Threw it high out of bounds.  I dunno they were just off and everyone her obviously could sense it as well.