FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

STANDINGS/with 3 weeks left....5 week minimum for % correct....prizes TBD


Participant                           Wins per week.                        Total.             Percentage

ICAlum(the instigator).      5/6/5/-/3/3/4/-#                            26/29*.           .896
UnionPalooza.                   7/5/-/4/2/3/4/4#                            29/32.             .906
Bartman.                          6/7/5/5/2/2/4/3#                           34/39.             .872
Ice Bear.                          6/6/4/5/2/3/4/3#                            33/39.             .846
Jersey 42.                        6/-/-/5 /-/-/-/4                                15/16.             .937
Machiavelli                       -/5/6/5/3/2/4/3 #                            30/34.             .882
Oline.                              -/4/-/-/2/- /4/3                                13/18.             .722
IC798891.                       -/-/5./-/-/0/-/-                                     5/7.             .714
UFAN.                              -/-/-/4/2/3/3/4 #                               16/19.             .842    .

Congratulations to those who picked the four winners this weekend(Jersey42, back and leading highest % contest)
# met 5 week minimum
* no selection for the first  Friday night  game was made

[unionpalooza]

I did not catch the IC game, but looking at the stats, why on earth did IC have a freshman QB making his first start throw 17 passes in the first half?  They then wised up, threw only two passes in the second half, and pulled away in the process, but that first half of play-calling sounds like malpractice. 

[Caz Bombers]

I did not catch the IC game, but looking at the stats, why on earth did IC have a freshman QB making his first start throw 17 passes in the first half?  They then wised up, threw only two passes in the second half, and pulled away in the process, but that first half of play-calling sounds like malpractice.

He's gotta throw some time, might as well see what you have against the Rochester and Buff States of the world before you have to do desperate sh** against Cortland and in the playoffs.

Besides, Schumm is now pretty much our QB1 through 2026, so learn by doing, kid.

[Jersey42]

I watched most of the RPI-SLU game.  Definitely a tale of two halves.  RPI's only first half touchdown was on a punt return by Sterling Walker-Sutton.  This was his second in two games and he almost had a third, but he was knocked out of bounds at the SLU 10.  Kazanowsky had two interceptions in the first quarter. The first was on the opening drive at the SLU 8.  He should have thrown it out of bounds on second down.  The second one was not his fault as the receiver fell down trying to make a cut.  RPI also had problems running the ball in the first half as SLU was able to contain both Buckley and White.

SLUs first half scoring drive was aided by three RPI penalties.  All were on third down - 2 pass interference and one offsides. I thought the SLU defense played well in the first half, especially holding the RPI running backs in check.  Score was 10-7 at the half and it looked like we were going to have a close game.

The second half was all RPI. No turnovers, no defensive penalties, no sacks, scored on 4 of 5 drives. Kazanowsky had three TD passes and several excellent throws including a couple to Faraday.  SLU got into RPI territory multiple times, but they could not convert any of their fourth down chances.  By the way, SLU played freshman QB Mark Rodeo for the entire fourth quarter.

[IC798891]

I did not catch the IC game, but looking at the stats, why on earth did IC have a freshman QB making his first start throw 17 passes in the first half?  They then wised up, threw only two passes in the second half, and pulled away in the process, but that first half of play-calling sounds like malpractice.

Seven of those passes game on the final drive of the first half, when Ithaca got the ball back with 1:14 to go and were in the 2-minute offense

Prior to that, here were the IC calls by drive:

1. 5 rush, 3 pass
2. 7 rush, 1 pass
3. 8 rush, 2 pass
4. 1 rush, 2 pass
5. 1 rush, 2 pass

Far from coaching malpractice, 20 of their first 26 plays were rushes.

In fact, I'd argue that Ithaca should spend these next two weeks having Schumm throw as much as possible. The defense is fantastic, the running game is there when you need it. Reps matter, and St. Lawrence and Buffalo State are the kinds of competition you need to do it against. You bring him along slowly, and then you're taking the training wheels off against Cortland, and playoff opponents.

[Bartman]

I have a very bad feeling about the UofR game. As long as they beat Buff State and SLU it doesn't really matter, but throwing a freshman QB out there on the road against a significantly improved BEEEEES team feels like a problem.

Caz, I really don't think this game is a problem for the Bombers if they stick to the ground game. Although ,if the defense has a few lapses, Rose and Pappy could make it a game. As you said, unless U of R runs the gauntlet, you just need 2 of 3 for the LL title. This gives your Freshman time to get some solid experience in before Cortaca No worries, be happy.....I'd love to be in your position. Also, although it sucks to lose Wingfield, this experience for your Frosh QB will help him grow up really fast which will help the 2024 season.

Ithaca has a perfect opportunity to get ready for Cortland the next 2 weeks
Bartman agrees.....run to win , but give the kid plenty of reps

[Oline89]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

[Ice Bear]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

It's funny you being this up Oline. UfanBill and I were commenting on this yesterday at the game, especially late when Union was running the ball really well. Hobart's 3 man front was also spread out on the LOS (I mean noticeably spread out) and Union's line seemed to be creating space with ease. It also seemed to me that with that spread out front Union's backs found themselves a yard or two past the LOS almost immediately. We were curious if Hobart would make an adjustment and it didn't appear that they did.

Now with that said I'm not going to pretend I'm anything close to an expert in this area and if teams have comfort switching from a 3 to 4 man front mid game. During Union's struggles years ago I always complained about the 3 man front they ran. Very rarely we're they able to get pressure on the opposing QB's and sat back in more of a pass protection defense that ended up getting carved up anyway. Maybe that front was based on personnel, etc along with scheme? I don't know. Maybe others here that are more knowledgeable can comment on this.

I look forward to hearing yours and others thoughts on this. Glad you brought it up.

[UfanBill]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

While I'm dismayed I didn't make your list of "great football minds of the LL board" I'll give you an opinion based on what I saw from the Hobart D against Union Saturday... IT DIDN'T WORK...Union is a running team and by playing a nose guard and the 2 other defensive tackles wide, on the outside shoulder of the Union offensive tackles, they opened up the middle for Fiore and Anderson to run off guard with double teams from the Union center and guards while also allowing good blocking angles for the Union tackles to move the DTs.to the outside. Often they were 3-4 yards into the second level before any contact. The linebackers were not filling the hole quickly enough to stop the Union run game as evidenced by the stats. Fiore 20/157 yards, 7.9 yd/play and Anderson 15/106, 7.1 yd/play. As I said in an earlier post I was very surprised Hobart never made any adjustments even when Union kept running inside repeatedly.

[Jonny Utah]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

Interesting I never thought about it but it is an odd defense that you don't see often.  I mean they are a good team and their defense has had some studs and to be honest I never thought much of the scheme they run.  I'm guessing they aren't able to recruit 275+ pound studs (or don't want to) so they have 6 linebacker type players instead?  I'd have to watch them more to give a better opinion but they do run that wide 3 man front versus the spread.  Not sure what they would do vs a team that runs 21/22 personnel groups.

[Oline89]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

Interesting I never thought about it but it is an odd defense that you don't see often.  I mean they are a good team and their defense has had some studs and to be honest I never thought much of the scheme they run.  I'm guessing they aren't able to recruit 275+ pound studs (or don't want to) so they have 6 linebacker type players instead?  I'd have to watch them more to give a better opinion but they do run that wide 3 man front versus the spread.  Not sure what they would do vs a team that runs 21/22 personnel groups.

Its all I have ever seen.  The Hobart LBs have amazing stats year after year. They conistently lead the team in sacks and TFLs.  The defense has had great seasons overall.  I have watched thousands of NCAA and NFL games over the years, I just cant remember a team that is so dedicated to the 3-4 look.  It seems that the B gap (if that what off guard is still called) is open for 2-3 yards every play, and then with a solid block on the LB it is 6 yards...every play.  I am certainly no Defensive guru, just an avid fan, and am perplexed  with this scheme week after week. 

[Jonny Utah]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

Interesting I never thought about it but it is an odd defense that you don't see often.  I mean they are a good team and their defense has had some studs and to be honest I never thought much of the scheme they run.  I'm guessing they aren't able to recruit 275+ pound studs (or don't want to) so they have 6 linebacker type players instead?  I'd have to watch them more to give a better opinion but they do run that wide 3 man front versus the spread.  Not sure what they would do vs a team that runs 21/22 personnel groups.

Its all I have ever seen.  The Hobart LBs have amazing stats year after year. They conistently lead the team in sacks and TFLs.  The defense has had great seasons overall.  I have watched thousands of NCAA and NFL games over the years, I just cant remember a team that is so dedicated to the 3-4 look.  It seems that the B gap (if that what off guard is still called) is open for 2-3 yards every play, and then with a solid block on the LB it is 6 yards...every play.  I am certainly no Defensive guru, just an avid fan, and am perplexed  with this scheme week after week.

Union and Ithaca are #8 and #40 in the county in rushing offense as of today.  Stopping those teams is not an easy task.  And Ithaca has played two top 25 teams as well. It did make me think a little how they may just do this versus spread (shotgun) teams.  Ithaca is shotgun 100% of the time.  Union appears the same.  Most NFL teams are probably 60/40 or 70/30 and d1 teams always seem to have a few more under center snaps than Union or Ithaca do.  Anyway that just made me think of why they are doing that.  If the QB is under center, Hobart is probably not running that defense. 

Edit: I mention this because the b gap is a much bigger threat from under center. Hobart has to account for every gap either way I'm just not well versed enough in how Hobart handles their run fits vs spread

[Ice Bear]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

Interesting I never thought about it but it is an odd defense that you don't see often.  I mean they are a good team and their defense has had some studs and to be honest I never thought much of the scheme they run.  I'm guessing they aren't able to recruit 275+ pound studs (or don't want to) so they have 6 linebacker type players instead?  I'd have to watch them more to give a better opinion but they do run that wide 3 man front versus the spread.  Not sure what they would do vs a team that runs 21/22 personnel groups.

Its all I have ever seen.  The Hobart LBs have amazing stats year after year. They conistently lead the team in sacks and TFLs.  The defense has had great seasons overall.  I have watched thousands of NCAA and NFL games over the years, I just cant remember a team that is so dedicated to the 3-4 look.  It seems that the B gap (if that what off guard is still called) is open for 2-3 yards every play, and then with a solid block on the LB it is 6 yards...every play.  I am certainly no Defensive guru, just an avid fan, and am perplexed  with this scheme week after week.

Union and Ithaca are #8 and #40 in the county in rushing offense as of today.  Stopping those teams is not an easy task.  And Ithaca has played two top 25 teams as well. It did make me think a little how they may just do this versus spread (shotgun) teams.  Ithaca is shotgun 100% of the time.  Union appears the same.  Most NFL teams are probably 60/40 or 70/30 and d1 teams always seem to have a few more under center snaps than Union or Ithaca do.  Anyway that just made me think of why they are doing that.  If the QB is under center, Hobart is probably not running that defense. 

Edit: I mention this because the b gap is a much bigger threat from under center. Hobart has to account for every gap either way I'm just not well versed enough in how Hobart handles their run fits vs spread

Great perspective Utah.

[Ice Bear]

This Week's LL Ranking

1.) Ithaca
2.) RPI
3.) Union
4.) Hobart
5.) Rochester
6.) SLU
7.) Buffalo State

[Bartman]

I am looking for an honest, objective answer from some of the great football minds of the LL board (looking at you Johnny U, Mach, BartM, IC 79...).  What is your opinion of the 3 man front that Hobart has trotted out for every game I have watched in the past 7 years? I will happily share my opinion after hearing from some of the more learned members of the group.

This is a great question. I noticed during the Union game that the spacing between the LOS and the linebackers was deeper than I've seen recently which seemed to allow for greater yardage from guard to guard runs by Union. I know Hobart  feels it looks for and develops great LBs. On the Line, they look for a NG stopper and athletic DE s. I've always felt they should mix up defensive alignments more to challenge the opposing Oline. I haven't seen that much in the last few years under DeWall and his DCs. The current DC , Coach Green, has maintained the 3-4 and he was an AA Center for Hobart that feels the 3-4 causes the bigger challenge to opposing OLines.But it is also seems to me to be a personnel issue.
    If Hobart keeps recruiting great LBs the 3-4 works.The ILBs must be both strong and athletic in the 3-4 alignment , allowing the faster and athletic OLBs and CBs to stunt and create havoc in concert with the DEs. It works in theory, but on Saturday the Union Oline was well prepared.
I hope Hobart can find future AA LBs like Emmett Ford(20+ TFLs and 10+sacks in one season) and DEs like Tyre Coleman( 30 TFLs and 17 sacks in one season) and the configuration won't matter.