FB: Liberty League

[Ice Bear]

Congrats to the Bombers for moving up to #14. This should be a great week for comments on the board as CORTACA and "SHOES" games loom large as relevant to post season shuffles. Hobart has a long time traditional opponent in the Yellowjackets that will factor into any chance that the Statesmen play for one more week. SLU and Buff State should have a great contest to round out the week. The "picks" this week are going to be very interesting as there are no easy ones, not even Hobart as the Yellowjackets will be looking to turn the tide. Should be a great weekend for the LL.

I am so damn excited for this year's cortaca jug. First home cortaca for the Bombers since 2017 I believe ('18 cortland, '19 MetLife, '20 Covid, '21 Cortland, '22 Yankee Stadium). This is another year where the story will be the Cortland offense versus the Ithaca Defense, more often than note in the post Welch era the Bombers defense has prevailed.

Obviously, with a first year QB for Ithaca the Dragons defense will be chomping at the bit and probably would be the reason why the Red Dragons might be favored in this game by 2 or 3. I really think the Bombers have been able to put together incredible game plans the last few years for Cortland and this is not the first high powered offense Ithaca has faced this season. On offense for Ithaca, I really like the arm strength of Schumm. I think this gives the opportunity for Ithaca to lull Cortland to sleep with their run game and take a few shots over the course of the game and hopefully convert on 1 or 2 of them.

This is such a special week for everyone involved and despite my 0-4 record in this game brings back so many amazing memories and truly embodies why D3 football is so great. As I get further and further away from my playing days now the only time I think about how much I wish I could put on the Ithaca Helmet and where it across my chest is against Cortland.  I can't wait to talk more about this game as the week goes.

"WHAT DO WE LOVE, WHAT DO WE EAT, DRAGON MEAT DRAGON MEAT!!!"

Love this 16, love it. +k

[UfanBill]

So back in September the talk was about how weak Union's OOC schedule was with Hilbert, Worcester St., Springfield and Montclair St... Granted 0-9 Hilbert and soon to be 1-9 Worcester St. are two of the worst teams in D3 but Springfield has rolled since losing to Union 34-7 and will probably be NEWMAC champ and a top seed in Region 1 and don't look now but Montclair St.(who Union beat 43-7) is now 5-4 and just upset NJAC leader Christopher Newport. If Union gets a Pool C it will be because of their high SOS buoyed by the play of the Pride and the Red Hawks. Not so weak sisters.

[unionpalooza]

So back in September the talk was about how weak Union's OOC schedule was with Hilbert, Worcester St., Springfield and Montclair St... Granted 0-9 Hilbert and soon to be 1-9 Worcester St. are two of the worst teams in D3 but Springfield has rolled since losing to Union 34-7 and will probably be NEWMAC champ and a top seed in Region 1 and don't look now but Montclair St.(who Union beat 43-7) is now 5-4 and just upset NJAC leader Christopher Newport. If Union gets a Pool C it will be because of their high SOS buoyed by the play of the Pride and the Red Hawks. Not so weak sisters.

these have certainly helped, though so has the overall way that LL members dominated out of conference.  That said, if Union had played a couple of 3-7/4-6 teams, they'd be a Pool C lock with a win at RPI.  Here's to hoping we get some better OOC scheduling next year.   

[Bartman]

Hobart has declared for the ECAC Bowls. W&J, Carnegie Mellon and Brockport all look like competition for a home game, so far.

[IC798891]

So back in September the talk was about how weak Union's OOC schedule was with Hilbert, Worcester St., Springfield and Montclair St... Granted 0-9 Hilbert and soon to be 1-9 Worcester St. are two of the worst teams in D3 but Springfield has rolled since losing to Union 34-7 and will probably be NEWMAC champ and a top seed in Region 1 and don't look now but Montclair St.(who Union beat 43-7) is now 5-4 and just upset NJAC leader Christopher Newport. If Union gets a Pool C it will be because of their high SOS buoyed by the play of the Pride and the Red Hawks. Not so weak sisters.

The Springfield win looks better and better every week. Ultimately, the LL is arguably the best conference in D3 in the context of "Conferences that don't contain a team that gets to the Final 4", and it means you're going to get quality opponents several weeks of the year.

Ultimately, what I've learned this year, is that most scheduling debates wind up being useless. For every IC who you could say that their brutal OOC prepared them to win their difficulty conference games and prep them for the playoffs, there's typically a UMHB who was probably telling themselves the same thing before Simmons got them.

Union should be the favorite this week in the Shoes game. Call it 27-17 Chargers.

[IC798891]

Hats off to Hobart for bouncing back after a touch start and flat out whooping RPI on the second half.  A great gritty effort on senior day.

One more LL war to play next week.

Meanwhile, Buff St. not content to let Union kneel it out with 30 seconds left, calling timeouts down 43-17.  I'm hoping Poppe runs play action.

So...I don't mind this.

They'd just been stoned at the two yard line by Union. To me, the easiest thing in the world would be to just mope about it, let Union do kneel and be done with it. Instead, they gave their defense the opportunity to make a play and possibly get a safety, which then gives their special teams and offense a chance to have another drive.

This is how bad programs get better. Not so much in the context of getting in those few extra plays, but in the context of changing the mentality surrounding the program by saying "We're going to compete for 60 minutes. That's the expectation we have for our team."

It's not going to turn them into LL contenders. But it's the kind of thing that turns bad programs into the teams that you still beat, but you can't just show up and do whatever you want. After losing to a first-year QB 62-0 in a game which literally any play IC called worked, I suspect they were highly motivated to put forth that sort of 60-minute effort. Good coaching move on their part.

[Bartman]

Hats off to Hobart for bouncing back after a touch start and flat out whooping RPI on the second half.  A great gritty effort on senior day.

One more LL war to play next week.

Meanwhile, Buff St. not content to let Union kneel it out with 30 seconds left, calling timeouts down 43-17.  I'm hoping Poppe runs play action.

So...I don't mind this.

They'd just been stoned at the two yard line by Union. To me, the easiest thing in the world would be to just mope about it, let Union do kneel and be done with it. Instead, they gave their defense the opportunity to make a play and possibly get a safety, which then gives their special teams and offense a chance to have another drive.

This is how bad programs get better. Not so much in the context of getting in those few extra plays, but in the context of changing the mentality surrounding the program by saying "We're going to compete for 60 minutes. That's the expectation we have for our team."

It's not going to turn them into LL contenders. But it's the kind of thing that turns bad programs into the teams that you still beat, but you can't just show up and do whatever you want. After losing to a first-year QB 62-0 in a game which literally any play IC called worked, I suspect they were highly motivated to put forth that sort of 60-minute effort. Good coaching move on their part.

I agree with IC7 on this. Buffalo State has some  good athletes, but not enough to win against a good program. The coach is telling them- you might not win the game, but win your matchup, win that play, win the series. I will be interested to see which team wants it more on Saturday between SLU and Buffalo State. I think SLU should win it, but I think Buffalo State might want it more....we'll see.

[Ice Bear]

So back in September the talk was about how weak Union's OOC schedule was with Hilbert, Worcester St., Springfield and Montclair St... Granted 0-9 Hilbert and soon to be 1-9 Worcester St. are two of the worst teams in D3 but Springfield has rolled since losing to Union 34-7 and will probably be NEWMAC champ and a top seed in Region 1 and don't look now but Montclair St.(who Union beat 43-7) is now 5-4 and just upset NJAC leader Christopher Newport. If Union gets a Pool C it will be because of their high SOS buoyed by the play of the Pride and the Red Hawks. Not so weak sisters.

The Springfield win looks better and better every week. Ultimately, the LL is arguably the best conference in D3 in the context of "Conferences that don't contain a team that gets to the Final 4", and it means you're going to get quality opponents several weeks of the year.

Ultimately, what I've learned this year, is that most scheduling debates wind up being useless. For every IC who you could say that their brutal OOC prepared them to win their difficulty conference games and prep them for the playoffs, there's typically a UMHB who was probably telling themselves the same thing before Simmons got them.

Union should be the favorite this week in the Shoes game. Call it 27-17 Chargers.

I have been a closet Springfield fan for two decades now, as I fell in love with their triple option offense. I would guess that if many teams ran it my opinion of it would not be close to as favorable as it is. I really find it entertaining, almost a type of treat to see once a year and also to watch how other teams fare against it. I have really appreciated the Pride's success this year. They are an athletic football team that squeezes as much as they possibly can out of that offense. I will also say that in today's college game I'd be beyond shocked if any team won a national championship with it. I believe there is a ceiling with that O and I think that has been proven over the last couple of decades. I look for Springfield to tie things up this weekend with a win over SUNY Maritime, although we all know in this game nothing is for certain.

I certainly appreciate the confidence in your Shoes pick IC. I've got a lot to think about with this game and at this point I admittedly don't know where my prediction will fall. I know Union can win this game and really, at this point, based on results,  I'd have to rank RPI 4th in the LL. There is something that doesn't sit well with me doing that though as I think the Engineers have a good enough team to be in the top two. I believe the top four are all quite close. Plus, like I've eluded to over the weekend, when Union or RPI can come in playing spoiler it really puts the other (at least their fan base) on edge.

By the way, I think Cortaca is going to be an absolute battle. I'm a HUGE IC fan this week!

[Bartman]

So back in September the talk was about how weak Union's OOC schedule was with Hilbert, Worcester St., Springfield and Montclair St... Granted 0-9 Hilbert and soon to be 1-9 Worcester St. are two of the worst teams in D3 but Springfield has rolled since losing to Union 34-7 and will probably be NEWMAC champ and a top seed in Region 1 and don't look now but Montclair St.(who Union beat 43-7) is now 5-4 and just upset NJAC leader Christopher Newport. If Union gets a Pool C it will be because of their high SOS buoyed by the play of the Pride and the Red Hawks. Not so weak sisters.

The Springfield win looks better and better every week. Ultimately, the LL is arguably the best conference in D3 in the context of "Conferences that don't contain a team that gets to the Final 4", and it means you're going to get quality opponents several weeks of the year.

Ultimately, what I've learned this year, is that most scheduling debates wind up being useless. For every IC who you could say that their brutal OOC prepared them to win their difficulty conference games and prep them for the playoffs, there's typically a UMHB who was probably telling themselves the same thing before Simmons got them.

Union should be the favorite this week in the Shoes game. Call it 27-17 Chargers.

I have been a closet Springfield fan for two decades now, as I fell in love with their triple option offense. I would guess that if many teams ran it my opinion of it would not be close to as favorable as it is. I really find it entertaining, almost a type of treat to see once a year and also to watch how other teams fare against it. I have really appreciated the Pride's success this year. They are an athletic football team that squeezes as much as they possibly can out of that offense. I will also say that in today's college game I'd be beyond shocked if any team won a national championship with it. I believe there is a ceiling with that O and I think that has been proven over the last couple of decades. I look for Springfield to tie things up this weekend with a win over SUNY Maritime, although we all know in this game nothing is for certain.

I certainly appreciate the confidence in your Shoes pick IC. I've got a lot to think about with this game and at this point I admittedly don't know where my prediction will fall. I know Union can win this game and really, at this point, based on results,  I'd have to rank RPI 4th in the LL. There is something that doesn't sit well with me doing that though as I think the Engineers have a good enough team to be in the top two. I believe the top four are all quite close. Plus, like I've eluded to over the weekend, when Union or RPI can come in playing spoiler it really puts the other (at least their fan base) on edge.

By the way, I think Cortaca is going to be an absolute battle. I'm a HUGE IC fan this week!

As far as RPI-Union(By the way since there are no more Dutchmen...why the shoes ), I think RPI will be totally playing for pride after Hobart bashed them around in the second half last Saturday. Hobart was motivated because they were the wounded animal after getting clocked in the second half of the Union game, and I think RPI is way to good to lay down for Union. This is a pride game for them which is a great motivator for a team that knows they are" better than that". Heck, this is the same RPI team that shoulda/coulda beat Ithaca, they put the biggest scare into the Bombers by going to OT. I don't think whether Kazanowsky plays or the Freshman it will matter, the RPI Oline should be pissed at themselves( a billion sacks and 18 total rushing yards) and they should take it out on the Chargers from the outset. The Chargers have everything to play for beyond just the game itself, they have a chance to get a Pool C slot , with a decisive win. The game is at Union which is good news for Union but it is also a motivator for RPI to come into their house and silence the "used to be Dutchmen"by kicking them out of the tournament.....if we can't make it in, neither can you....a very sweet feeling. So, I'm actually leaning towards the Sliderulers this week which will make another statement on how competitive the LL is. If Union wins, I'm cool with that if it gets Union a Pool C slot. Good luck to both teams, it should be totally nasty

[UfanBill]

Motivation?...2 short years ago all Union had to do was cover an RPI onsides kick attempt and the Shoes Trophy and a potential Pool C were theirs. Instead RPI was awarded the ball (more about that in a minute) and seconds later a soccer player,who wasn't even on the team at the beginning of the week, kicks a game winning field goal. It was shocking and sickening for the then Dutchmen. I'm certain they have not forgotten....Back to that onsides kick. A Union player initially fell on the ball and from my perspective (it happened right in front of me) since he was down with possession the play should have been dead right there BUT the referee didn't blow it dead instead allowing the 3 RPI players who jumped on top of him to wrestle the ball away and gain possession for the Engineers. A missed call? To me yes but credit RPI. Union had the game won and then they didn't. All the motivation they should need for this time.

[unionpalooza]

Motivation?...2 short years ago all Union had to do was cover an RPI onsides kick attempt and the Shoes Trophy and a potential Pool C were theirs. Instead RPI was awarded the ball (more about that in a minute) and seconds later a soccer player,who wasn't even on the team at the beginning of the week, kicks a game winning field goal. It was shocking and sickening for the then Dutchmen. I'm certain they have not forgotten....Back to that onsides kick. A Union player initially fell on the ball and from my perspective (it happened right in front of me) since he was down with possession the play should have been dead right there BUT the referee didn't blow it dead instead allowing the 3 RPI players who jumped on top of him to wrestle the ball away and gain possession for the Engineers. A missed call? To me yes but credit RPI. Union had the game won and then they didn't. All the motivation they should need for this time.

Yeah, I'm not sure a Union squad has been this motivated in a long time. In addition to 2021, I think they all carry the sour taste of last year's game, where they just handed over the game early through lack or focus, discipline and execution. I have every confidence that Poppe will have these guys focused and ready to be their best.

[IC798891]

Like you all, I don't think well coached teams are ever more motivated, because that would imply they are sometimes less motivated, and well-coached teams don't show up to games less motivated.

Union's going to be 100% ready to go, like they are every week. I also think they are more talented, and at home. 27-13 Chargers

[unionpalooza]

Thoughts heading into the best week of the year.

Ithaca / Cortland - I feel like IC should be the underdog, given they lost their stud QB, but I still feel IC pulls off the win at home.  I think Ithaca is going to be able to run the ball, not ask to much of the freshman QB, and the defense is experienced and well-rounded enough to play a bend but don't break style.  And I just think Ithaca is more battle tested - although Cortland's SOS numbers are also stellar, a lot of that is a product of teams that have good records (Del Valley, Utica, Brockport) against mostly poor competition, as opposed to IC, who has played 5 teams I think are better than anyone on Cortland's schedule save Susq.  I'm taking Ithaca 26-21.

RPI / Union - Just a hunch, but I think we're going to get Union's best effort of the year.  These are otherwise two teams that I think are pretty evenly matched, but I think Union's got the better defense, and is playing at home, and that will make the difference.  Union 27-17.

Hobart / Rochester - The Bees seem to be reverting to the mean as the season goes on.  I think Hobart will come in with a lot of confidence and knock the Bees in the mouth early, and cruise to a 31-10 victory. 

SLU/Buff St. - Buff St.'s offense has some weapons, and certainly has played more competitively against the better LL teams.  Bengals win 31-20.

Finally, on Pool C, I think I've seen enough data and believe Union "should" snag the third or fourth Pool C bid with a win on Saturday, after UWW and St.Johns snag the first two..  A 9-1 record, decent SOS that should finish around .560ish, and a win against regionally-ranked Springfield should be, on paper, superior to several other 9-1 teams with lower SOS and/or non RRWs (Muhlenberg, Berry, Linfield/Whitworth loser) and a cluster of 8-2 teams.  The downsides risks are (i) one or more bids to Wheaton or Coe, who will be 9-1, have a lower SOS, and maybe 1 RRW (depending on whether Augustana falls out when they lose to North Central), or (ii) an 8-2 Hope, who has a better SOS (.634) and a regionally ranked win at Mt. St. Joseph (assuming they don't lose to Rose Hulman). 

I don't see any way you can pick a 9-1 Wheaton (or Coe) over a 9-1 Union based on the actual criteria, but they may ignore that on the basis of reputation and perception.  Hope is a tougher call because it's a question of how much weight you put on winning percentage v. SOS.

I'm also assuming that regionally ranked wins really count for something.  If we see R2 rank Muhlenberg ahead of Union this week (both teams will be 8-1, Muhlenberg will have a higher SOS by .008, but does NOT have a RRW), that would spell major trouble for Union's prospects.

Of course, all irrelevant unless Union takes cares of business Saturday.  Beating RPI remains job 1, 2, and 3.

EDIT:  If you cut the data today and send DelVal to someone in the south, you get an awesome bracket:

Endicott (8) @ JHU (1)
Union (5) @ Cortland (4)
Grove City (6) @ Ithaca (3)
Springfield (7) @ Susquehanna (2)

[Ice Bear]

Motivation?...2 short years ago all Union had to do was cover an RPI onsides kick attempt and the Shoes Trophy and a potential Pool C were theirs. Instead RPI was awarded the ball (more about that in a minute) and seconds later a soccer player,who wasn't even on the team at the beginning of the week, kicks a game winning field goal. It was shocking and sickening for the then Dutchmen. I'm certain they have not forgotten....Back to that onsides kick. A Union player initially fell on the ball and from my perspective (it happened right in front of me) since he was down with possession the play should have been dead right there BUT the referee didn't blow it dead instead allowing the 3 RPI players who jumped on top of him to wrestle the ball away and gain possession for the Engineers. A missed call? To me yes but credit RPI. Union had the game won and then they didn't. All the motivation they should need for this time.

Yeah, I'm not sure a Union squad has been this motivated in a long time. In addition to 2021, I think they all carry the sour taste of last year's game, where they just handed over the game early through lack or focus, discipline and execution. I have every confidence that Poppe will have these guys focused and ready to be their best.

Palooza, last year's game, for me, was one of the hardest Shoes games in recent memory to accept. Moments of that game reminded me of the 0-10 season and seemed quite out of character for a Behrman coached team (for the most part). There was a listlessness there that bothered me. Now, I can certainly be a bit dramatic and maybe my fuzzy memory is making more out of this than there really is, but man, I feel we have some making up to do for last year on top of all we have to play for this year.

I think Union really has to just focus on executing their game plan on Saturday on both sides of the ball. RPI is going to do what RPI does, compete hard. Like always I think much of Union's success will sit on the broad shoulders of 5th year QB Donovan Pacatte. IMHO we don't have to throw the ball far down the field on every set of downs. I loved the short passing game that I saw two weeks ago against Hobart. I thought Pacatte was on as he was completing passes with consistency, not to mention putting the ball in the hands of some pretty talented receivers within 10 yards of the LOS, which really allowed our running game to get going. When that one two combination of Fiore and Anderson is rolling and the O-line is pushing, it puts so much pressure on the secondary to creep and guess. If Union can do this on Saturday I believe they will win.

[unionpalooza]

Motivation?...2 short years ago all Union had to do was cover an RPI onsides kick attempt and the Shoes Trophy and a potential Pool C were theirs. Instead RPI was awarded the ball (more about that in a minute) and seconds later a soccer player,who wasn't even on the team at the beginning of the week, kicks a game winning field goal. It was shocking and sickening for the then Dutchmen. I'm certain they have not forgotten....Back to that onsides kick. A Union player initially fell on the ball and from my perspective (it happened right in front of me) since he was down with possession the play should have been dead right there BUT the referee didn't blow it dead instead allowing the 3 RPI players who jumped on top of him to wrestle the ball away and gain possession for the Engineers. A missed call? To me yes but credit RPI. Union had the game won and then they didn't. All the motivation they should need for this time.

Yeah, I'm not sure a Union squad has been this motivated in a long time. In addition to 2021, I think they all carry the sour taste of last year's game, where they just handed over the game early through lack or focus, discipline and execution. I have every confidence that Poppe will have these guys focused and ready to be their best.

Palooza, last year's game, for me, was one of the hardest Shoes games in recent memory to accept. Moments of that game reminded me of the 0-10 season and seemed quite out of character for a Behrman coached team (for the most part). There was a listlessness there that bothered me. Now, I can certainly be a bit dramatic and maybe my fuzzy memory is making more out of this than there really is, but man, I feel we have some making up to do for last year on top of all we have to play for this year.

I think Union really has to just focus on executing their game plan on Saturday on both sides of the ball. RPI is going to do what RPI does, compete hard. Like always I think much of Union's success will sit on the broad shoulders of 5th year QB Donovan Pacatte. IMHO we don't have to throw the ball far down the field on every set of downs. I loved the short passing game that I saw two weeks ago against Hobart. I thought Pacatte was on as he was completing passes with consistency, not to mention putting the ball in the hands of some pretty talented receivers within 10 yards of the LOS, which really allowed our running game to get going. When that one two combination of Fiore and Anderson is rolling and the O-line is pushing, it puts so much pressure on the secondary to creep and guess. If Union can do this on Saturday I believe they will win.

Ice Bear, totally agree.  As ugly as the 2021 loss was, you could accept that because they played hard and just got some terrible bounces at the end.  They just didn't show up last year in a way you can only real chalk up to coaching; my hunch was and remains that Behrman's attention and focus was already out the door.  They will not have that problem with Poppe, who has understood from Day 1 that the Shoes is everything.