FB: Liberty League

[unionpalooza]

And it appears the NCAA D3 Management Council has approved both a 40-team tourney and a new Pairwise-ish selection criteria starting this fall.  (Pat can confirm, but I think this means it is basically a done deal, subject to some further rubber stamping.)

Fans of NY football should understand that this is pretty transformative for our teams and leagues. The combination of the two changes means that both the LL and the E8 can probably reliably count on 2 bids a year, and 3 in years where the have a strong 8-2 team as a third place finisher.  (Had the criteria been used last year, all of Ithaca, Union, Hobart, Cortland, Brockport and Utica would have been in the 40-team field.). I'm sure many west of us will complain that the new criteria does not appropriately reward R4/5/6 teams that everyone "knows" are better than R1/2 teams with the equivalent W-L and SOS number.  I don't really have a view on that, other than to say I'll be very happy to see more R1/2 teams in the playoffs and hosting games.

The new criteria is also likely to create more incentive for teams to shift away from 9- or 10-team leagues where SOS can never nudge above .500.  (Leagues like the E8 and LL do well under the new criteria because they a 7-team leagues with 3-4 strong teams in the top half, and room to schedule 4 OOC games with an OOC over .500.  In the new world, that's the kind of league you want to be in.)

[Pat Coleman]

The Presidents Council can decide to overturn it, but it is super rare. I agree that it is basically rubber stamping.

[unionpalooza]

The Presidents Council can decide to overturn it, but it is super rare. I agree that it is basically rubber stamping.

I'm curious, Pat, do you have a view on the new criteria?  A pairwise approach seems pretty unstable given how few games are played and how little overlap there is among schedules across regions, but it doesn't seem any worse than the current approach, which has exactly the same problems. In the end I think we're better off with a single formula that determines everything than a purported criteria that is has discretion built in that applied differently year to year in ways no one can anticipate, which is what it seems we have had.

[Pat Coleman]

The Presidents Council can decide to overturn it, but it is super rare. I agree that it is basically rubber stamping.

I'm curious, Pat, do you have a view on the new criteria?  A pairwise approach seems pretty unstable given how few games are played and how little overlap there is among schedules across regions, but it doesn't seem any worse than the current approach, which has exactly the same problems. In the end I think we're better off with a single formula that determines everything than a purported criteria that is has discretion built in that applied differently year to year in ways no one can anticipate, which is what it seems we have had.

I don't think it will be great for football but with the expansion to 40 teams and eight extra at-large bids, even the worst committee couldn't screw it up too badly. At least we will never leave the national champ out of the field.

[IC798891]

Look, I get it. Access trumps pretty much everything, and this puts the access ratio in lines with other sports. And none of this is done for spectators.

But a 10-game regular season and a 6-game postseason? It just feels so odd to me that the playoffs are this long relative to the regular season.

I don't know if I think it'll change much of the whining we see when teams aren't selected for Pool C. Before, it felt like the general breakdown was "weaker 9-1 schedule vs stronger 8-2" and now I think we're just going to have a bunch of indistinguishable two loss teams. But I could be wrong

[unionpalooza]

Look, I get it. Access trumps pretty much everything, and this puts the access ratio in lines with other sports. And none of this is done for spectators.

But a 10-game regular season and a 6-game postseason? It just feels so odd to me that the playoffs are this long relative to the regular season.

I don't know if I think it'll change much of the whining we see when teams aren't selected for Pool C. Before, it felt like the general breakdown was "weaker 9-1 schedule vs stronger 8-2" and now I think we're just going to have a bunch of indistinguishable two loss teams. But I could be wrong

Yeah, I'd go to a 9-game regular season and then lots of bowl games so that any non-tourney teams over .500 hit ten. The reality is that there are too many teams in the division for a one-game-a-week sport like FB, but time will handle that, as many of the struggling schools that rely on football to fill beds will be the same schools that disappear in the demographic reckoning to come. 

[Oline89]

I think it's fantastic.  FCS teams all play an 11 game regular season.  And in reality only 8 teams in D3 will ever play more than 14 games. Today's teams rarely have any contact durring practices anymore, so the injury risk is negligible.  More games = happy players, fans, schools and parents

[Bartman]

I think it's fantastic.  FCS teams all play an 11 game regular season.  And in reality only 8 teams in D3 will ever play more than 14 games. Today's teams rarely have any contact durring practices anymore, so the injury risk is negligible.  More games = happy players, fans, schools and parents

Agree, looking forward to the possible opportunity to play in the NCAAs, which is now more likely under this format.

[Bartman]

Less than four months before the season starts following a year where a NY State team is the reigning Champion....congrats to Cortland again. I love that Hobart scheduled Randolph Macon in week 2....looking forward to the challenge. 

[Jersey42]

All of the LL teams with exception of Buffalo St. have posted their 2024 schedules.  Many of the non conference opponents have been mentioned in previous posts, but I tried to summarize below noting final 2023 d3football.com poll rankings.

A few comments:

• St. Lawrence only shows 3 non conference opponents.  Are they still actively looking for a fourth?
• Endicott plays three LL teams.  By the way, they are also traveling to Texas for a rematch with Hardin-Simmons.
• Ithaca continues to maintain a very tough OOC schedule with three top 15 opponents including #1.
• RPI has two top 15 opponents including #4. Hobart has #7 and St. Lawrence has #15. 
• As pointed out by others, the LL should have a reasonable chance at being a two and maybe three bid conference. A lot depends on how the teams do against their non conference opponents,

Ithaca #18
Johns Hopkins #8
Endicott #15
@ Curry
@ Cortland #1

Union #21
@ Utica
SUNY Maritime
@ Springfield
@ Montclair State

Hobart
Alfred
@ Randolph Macon #7
Moravian
@ Keystone

RPI
UW- La Crosse #4
@ Wilkes
WPI
@ Endicott #15

Rochester
@ Olivet
@ Alfred State
Salve Regina
University of New England

St. Lawrence
Endicott #15
@ Norwich
Western New England

Buffalo State - added opponents from following post by Pat Coleman
@ Brockport   
Hilbert   
Alfred State   
@ Mercyhurst

[Pat Coleman]

We have the Buff State schedule:
https://d3football.com/teams/Buffalo_State/2024/index

[Jersey42]

We have the Buff State schedule:
https://d3football.com/teams/Buffalo_State/2024/index

Thanks!  I updated my post.

[The Third Division]

Anyone reckon when the next big stadium cortaca is gonna be?

[Pat Coleman]

Anyone reckon when the next big stadium cortaca is gonna be?

Great question -- I remember about 15 years ago everyone was hot to do it in the Carrier Dome in Syracuse, but I am glad they went immediately to something bigger.

Seems like it would have to be in the NYC metro to be that big of a draw -- there are just more people there.

[IC798891]

So, the Cortaca game is in NYC because about 1/3 of IC's alums live in the Tri-State area.

The thing to remember is, these were really Ithaca's show. They were kind of the ones running point on the logistics and planning. Cortland was a partner and all, but this was Ithaca's idea. Really, it came from a lot of work put in by an alumnus and former football player. Mark Hudak. He was the chair of the NYC Chapter of the NFF, and that's how the MetLife invite happened.

It's why Ithaca gave up back to back home games (Though Cortland was gracious enough to give Ithaca the home game in 2023).

The other thing I can tell you, is, you have no idea how much work goes into it. Like, you're all mostly focused on the game, but Ithaca (I can't speak to Cortland's efforts) essentially built a weekend out of it. Tons of alumni events, tons of experiential learning opportunities, a year-long communication roll out both times

IF you're curious about them, you can search
Countdown to Cortaca: Road to Metlife
Countdown to Cortaca: Bombers in the Bronx

It really takes a lot of people a lot of time and work to make it happen, and allow the college to truly leverage everything. And of course, everyone doing that work still has to do their regular, non-Cortaca related jobs.

It also, honestly, was something that, along with COVID, took Cortaca off of IC's campus from 2018-2022, and for some students, meant that they never got to experience Cortaca at Butterfield. I think it's one of the reasons there was an ask for IC to host in 2023, because it had been so long since the Bombers had hosted one on-campus.

It's funny too, because for MetLife in particular, for all the "once-in-a-lifetime" marketing, we had some players who had already played in Metlife, because NJ high school football state titles games are held there frequently. So we had some players who we interviewed for stories and they were like "Yeah I played there in HS haha"

None of this is to say it won't happen again. But it requires buy-in from a lot of stakeholders well beyond football deciding "Yeah, let's play a game in New York City".