FB: Liberty League

['gro]

You ever feel like there were 180 guys wearing various shades of red rooting for one of these bets to actually go through?  I have this feeling we have several RPI and Union players witnessing the more mature alumni making asses out of themselves.  Ain't America great?

That's the point. Gro wants to enjoy the game, see the fam, see the friends and and get "sofa king we tar did". Chances of gro making an ass out of himself without any bets... 65%. Don't need to end up in a dress and makeup.

[mattvsmith]

Rev -

Sorry to hear your trip to Geneva was somewhat a bust.  At least you got to catch up with the fam as well as see some old fellow Hobartians.

TGP has to disagree on one thing though - we can't dogg Cragg on the play calls since it is actually Coach DeWall's as the OC to call the offense.  Cragg, has been, and always will be more focused on defense.  Not sure if this year's club doesn't have the same calibre of playmakers, but it seems like DeWall has been going for the gusto as much as he did in previous years. 

TGP wonders if DeWall has gotten more conversative with age?  DeWall is still a pretty young kid - Bart class of 2000 - so maybe he was a little more ballsy/reckless since he "didn't know better" a few seasons back.  You can't deny the kid's talent, as we have seen 2 QBs pass for over 5000 yds in the last 4-5 seasons.

This season TGP thinks they have been too dependant on Blakowski, and since the OL hasn't really stepped up, Bart becomes one dimensional, and thus more conversative in tight games. 

Reasonable explanation.  This coincides with an observation The Rev made during the game.  When it was 4th and inches into the endzone, Bart chose to try to shove the ball up the middle.  Problem: Union had been stuffing it down Bart's throat all day.  Super-bad play call.  It seems like a simple enough play to score with, but the OL had been creating holes FOR Union and sending engraved invitations to cream poor Mizro and his backfield.  The OL might as well have set the table with the finest china, too.  Anyway, The Rev wishes they had called a sweep or a little pot pass, which seemed to work on the few times they tried it.

The Rev is worried a little that his criticism of Bart's game can be read as fair-weather fandom (i.e. I only like Hobart when they do well) or that my negative comments might be construed as to take away from Union's performance.  This is not the case, and The Rev will go on record as saying that Union can play ball. Period.

The Rev had a talk with his best friend and former teammate from the old Purple Tornado days.  Somedays you step on the field and it's like the whole team was born just for that moment...even the jumping jacks are synchronized and everything in the universe just clicks.  Other days, it seems like you can't even put your cup on straight or tie your shoes right, and no matter what you do to get pumped and get your teammates pumped, the Fates are against you and from the very first hit, you know you've lost and just have to survive the next 59 minutes to make sure that the only thing damaged is your pride.

God willing, Bart--having had its requisite bad day--will compose itself to play a good game against Rochester this weekend.  Rochester is good this year, and The Rev reckons that after playing so flat last weekend, Bart will have an up weekend and beat the Yellowjackets 34-18.

[mattvsmith]

By the way, fellas, I love the fact that someone took the time and care to make a Shoes wiki entry.

Awesome.

[Frank Rossi]

You ever feel like there were 180 guys wearing various shades of red rooting for one of these bets to actually go through?  I have this feeling we have several RPI and Union players witnessing the more mature alumni making asses out of themselves.  Ain't America great?

That's the point. Gro wants to enjoy the game, see the fam, see the friends and and get "sofa king we tar did". Chances of gro making an ass out of himself without any bets... 65%. Don't need to end up in a dress and makeup.

So bet some sort of tangible vs. the intangible.

[Pat Coleman]

Anyone else having trouble with the relative positioning of Rowan in the D3Football.com Top 25 Poll?  It's not like the Profs have had a stellar year right now:

12 Wilkes 9-0 362 13 Def Susquehanna 35-7 at King's (10.778)
13 Rowan 6-2 271 17 Def No. 15 Cortland State 14-7 vs. William Paterson (9.714)
14 Springfield 8-1 238 18 Def Hartwick 44-20 at Norwich (11.444)
15 Cortland State 8-1 233 12 Lost to No. 13 Rowan 14-7 vs. Ithaca (9.500)
16 Union 7-1 223 20 Def No. 22 Hobart 31-14 at RPI (10.875)
17 St. John Fisher 8-1 206 19 Open Date at Alfred (11.111)
22 Hobart 7-1 121 14 Lost to No. 16 Union 31-14 vs. Rochester (11.125)
25 Ithaca 7-2 55 16 Lost to Alfred 28-17 at Cortland State (9.250)

I included the QoW index at the end of each line.  I think that while the QoW index could be somewhat deceptive when comparing two teams and the index is +/- 1.000 or less between teams.   However, Rowan's QoW is almost 1.4 points below SJF, 1.7 points below Springfield, 1.1 points below Union and 1.4 points below Hobart.  That's pretty awkward, and the QoW will not be boosted by Rowan's game vs. William Patterson.  Why so high on the ballots?!

Perhaps the head-to-head win against Cortland has something to do with it. And perhaps it's because the D3football.com Top 25 doesn't only take REGIONAL games into account, Frank.

Just because the NCAA ignores the Christopher Newport game doesn't mean we will.

[Frank Rossi]

Anyone else having trouble with the relative positioning of Rowan in the D3Football.com Top 25 Poll?  It's not like the Profs have had a stellar year right now:

12 Wilkes 9-0 362 13 Def Susquehanna 35-7 at King's (10.778)
13 Rowan 6-2 271 17 Def No. 15 Cortland State 14-7 vs. William Paterson (9.714)
14 Springfield 8-1 238 18 Def Hartwick 44-20 at Norwich (11.444)
15 Cortland State 8-1 233 12 Lost to No. 13 Rowan 14-7 vs. Ithaca (9.500)
16 Union 7-1 223 20 Def No. 22 Hobart 31-14 at RPI (10.875)
17 St. John Fisher 8-1 206 19 Open Date at Alfred (11.111)
22 Hobart 7-1 121 14 Lost to No. 16 Union 31-14 vs. Rochester (11.125)
25 Ithaca 7-2 55 16 Lost to Alfred 28-17 at Cortland State (9.250)

I included the QoW index at the end of each line.  I think that while the QoW index could be somewhat deceptive when comparing two teams and the index is +/- 1.000 or less between teams.   However, Rowan's QoW is almost 1.4 points below SJF, 1.7 points below Springfield, 1.1 points below Union and 1.4 points below Hobart.  That's pretty awkward, and the QoW will not be boosted by Rowan's game vs. William Patterson.  Why so high on the ballots?!

Perhaps the head-to-head win against Cortland has something to do with it. And perhaps it's because the D3football.com Top 25 doesn't only take REGIONAL games into account, Frank.

Just because the NCAA ignores the Christopher Newport game doesn't mean we will.

Christopher Newport is in one of only eight conferences (since the NEFC technically doesn't fall into this category with a championship game) that does not have a team that has clinched the Pool A slot yet.  CNU isn't exactly the best case-maker for keeping Rowan so relatively high all season.  I think the game story from Cortland should also remind you that it was a FOURTH-STRING QB that Rowan had trouble beating.  Throw in Kean and New Jersey and Montclair...and I think we sort of get a better landscape for what Rowan has done this year.  Perhaps the QoW of the top two teams in the NJAC shows us that the NJAC at large has had an off season.  And yet, the Top 25 is ranking an off team in an off season above teams that appear to be quite game and upstart.  Rowan's been a point of contention all season for you, Pat, as you've admitted.  I just question how it's played out since much of that discussion pre-Montclair.

Out of curiosity, how would you seed the East Region -- assuming one South team rolls in?

[Pat Coleman]

You'll find out when we do our projections.

Perhaps CNU isn't a world-beater (try convincing Mary Hardin-Baylor of that, however), but the fact remains that the isn't accounted for in the QOWI. That's a 14-point game you just conveniently glossed over.

By the way, found a flaw in Rowan's QOWI with the Buff State game counted twice. Take that out and they are 9.833. Add CNU and they are ... ta da! ... 10.429. Not nearly as much of a statistical outlier once you start comparing apples to apples.

Because remember, the national poll takes everything into account, not just regional results.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not here to say I'm thrilled with Rowan at 13. But it seems kinda silly to use the QOW to bash the poll. The QOW is so bad the NCAA first had to change its name and now is replacing it for 2007 or 2008.

[Frank Rossi]

I'm not here to say I'm thrilled with Rowan at 13. But it seems kinda silly to use the QOW to bash the poll. The QOW is so bad the NCAA first had to change its name and now is replacing it for 2007 or 2008.

I've agreed it's bad, and I've stated here that the E8 and LL need to find better tiebreakers than using either the QoW or the LL's convoluted version of essentially the same premise.  However, I think it does allow comparisons of teams that play somewhat even schedules.  I think Rowan's schedule is somewhat on par with the E8 and LL leaders this year.  So, that gives us some basis to use it as a rational comparison when looking at the middle of the Top 25.  It's not like Rowan, Ithaca, Hobart, SJF, Springfield, Union or Alfred were playing Endicott or Becker in their non-conference in-region games this year.  I think Ithaca's and Cortland's QoW numbers really do show a down year in the NJAC overall. 

Also, the QoW lends evidence -- it's not what I'm using to "bash" the poll.  Common sense is what gives me the urge to say, "Ummmm, has any voter actually looked at the Rowan results this season?"  Better yet, "Ummmm, has any voter actually looked at the other conferences and their respective teams in the East Region to see how well certain of them have done in their out-of-conference, in-region games -- and overall in their league?"  You can preach about Linfield all you want (as you have in the past), since the whole in-region, out-of-region issue is very vexing.  Here, though, we have real comparisons and with the momentum issue combined, there's really a question here as to who or what is leading to the Rowan levitation.

[Pat Coleman]

I would hope that the voters do indeed look at other teams. We do provide that information for them.

This is what the voters get on Union, for example:

Union (7-1):
Sep 09   AWAY   Springfield (8-1)   L   38-30
Sep 16   HOME   Muhlenberg (4-5)   W   34-7
Sep 23   HOME   Rochester (7-2)   W   27-24
Sep 30   HOME   Merchant Marine (3-6)   W   28-20
Oct 07   AWAY   Worcester Polytech (3-5)   W   27-28
Oct 14   HOME   Franklin and Marshall (3-6)   W   28-21
Oct 28   HOME   St. Lawrence (4-4)   W   42-7
Nov 04   AWAY   Hobart (7-1)   W   14-31
Nov 11   AWAY   RPI (5-3)      -

They also get it on 40-some other teams. It's a fairly comprehensive list, which is why I think our voters react to strength of schedule more than the AFCA does. My understanding is the AFCA voter packet is much less detailed. (In the past I've been told it's a copy of the D-III standings and the week's scores.)

[dewcrew88]

You ever feel like there were 180 guys wearing various shades of red rooting for one of these bets to actually go through?  I have this feeling we have several RPI and Union players witnessing the more mature alumni making asses out of themselves.  Ain't America great?

That's the point. Gro wants to enjoy the game, see the fam, see the friends and and get "sofa king we tar did". Chances of gro making an ass out of himself without any bets... 65%. Don't need to end up in a dress and makeup.

Gro, Reg and the rest:

BC08 is making the 45-minute trek to Troy for the game this Saturday, and as BC08 is not that familiar with the setup, he would like to see when and where you guys are tailgating. He's also writing a story for the newspaper about the atmosphere of my first Shoes contest.

Thanks for the help, either on the board or PM me. Thanks.

Actually, for the story I would use your names, so if you guys want to talk for the story, tell me in a PM. Thanks.

[Frank Rossi]

You ever feel like there were 180 guys wearing various shades of red rooting for one of these bets to actually go through?  I have this feeling we have several RPI and Union players witnessing the more mature alumni making asses out of themselves.  Ain't America great?

That's the point. Gro wants to enjoy the game, see the fam, see the friends and and get "sofa king we tar did". Chances of gro making an ass out of himself without any bets... 65%. Don't need to end up in a dress and makeup.

Gro, Reg and the rest:

BC08 is making the 45-minute trek to Troy for the game this Saturday, and as BC08 is not that familiar with the setup, he would like to see when and where you guys are tailgating. He's also writing a story for the newspaper about the atmosphere of my first Shoes contest.

Thanks for the help, either on the board or PM me. Thanks.

Actually, for the story I would use your names, so if you guys want to talk for the story, tell me in a PM. Thanks.

RT and I will be doing a live pregame broadcast from there starting at 12:15pm - When are you arriving BC?

['gro]

Good morning...

UNION SUCKS

['gro]

how's this for a wager... loser has to do the chicken noodle soup dance on the 50 yard line...


p.s. anyone who watched the Broncos/Steelers game on sunday, this was the dance Javon Walker did on one of his TD's... in case you were wondering if he was having a seizure.

[lewdogg11]

It's not like Rowan, Ithaca, Hobart, SJF, Springfield, Union or Alfred were playing Endicott or Becker in their non-conference in-region games this year. 

Watch it Frank.