FB: Liberty League

[labart96]

The Rev is glad to see his boys make it to the NCAA tournement.

The Rev also originally wrote a longer message than this, but has since re-considered.

Suffice it to say that Hobart will play well, but Rowan is simply the bigger, better team.

Rowan will win next weekend's game by at least 14 despite Hobart stepping up and playing as tough as they can.

Tough draw for Bart.  TGP is afraid that Rowan is putting things together a little late like last year.  Have to hope that we can at least show up and give them a good game.  Either way, the reward for winning is a match up vs. Wilkes.  Yikes.

[Jonny Utah]

You can take Ithaca out of the discussion.  No interest in playing in the ECAC's this year.

Yet another reason RT hates Ithaca more than any team in D3 (except maybe Rowan and Union)...bunch of arrogant, pompus posers. RT was there in the snow in 2003 when RPI knocked off the Bombers to get to the final 4. The Ithaca fans would not stop complaining about the snow....like it favored RPI or something? So the ECAC's aren't good enough for the men in blue? Probably a good idea to not risk another loss in 2006 anyway IC.....

RT, I dont think Tecmobowler is speaking for the Ithaca football program.  All he was saying was that Ithaca did not put its team into consideration this year as I believe theyve done once or twice before.  I pointed out on another board that there is not team in the east that is more proud of being in the ECAC than Ithaca.  Before every homegame, Ithaca puts up several ECAC banners in the stadium.  Theyve played in numerous ecac football games and the athletic department has hosted and played in dozens of other ecac championship sports.

In terms of the snowgame,  you can put me at the top of the list of Ithaca ballbusters on that one, but it was just ballbusting at that.  I still think games that are played in those condtions take away a little from the game though.  But as Ive pointed out before, RPI might have won 48-7 if it didnt snow.

I still believe Ithaca had been shafted in the past of home playoff games and the playoffs themselves once or twice.

[Upstate NY FAN]

Hey Rev,

I may agree with your predictions.  However,  I hope to see some more positive posts in the upcoming week.   I have a deep conviction that Coach Craig will exploit Rowan's weakness.    Let's go LL in NCAA in 2006.

DG

[labart96]

Hey Rev,

I may agree with your predictions.  However,  I hope to see some more positive posts in the upcoming week.   I have a deep conviction that Coach Craig will exploit Rowan's weakness.    Let's go LL in NCAA in 2006.

DG

Man, you know it's a tough draw when DG has to tell the Rt Rev to keep the faith!!!!

[Senor RedTackle]

You can take Ithaca out of the discussion.  No interest in playing in the ECAC's this year.

Yet another reason RT hates Ithaca more than any team in D3 (except maybe Rowan and Union)...bunch of arrogant, pompus posers. RT was there in the snow in 2003 when RPI knocked off the Bombers to get to the final 4. The Ithaca fans would not stop complaining about the snow....like it favored RPI or something? So the ECAC's aren't good enough for the men in blue? Probably a good idea to not risk another loss in 2006 anyway IC.....

RT, I dont think Tecmobowler is speaking for the Ithaca football program.  All he was saying was that Ithaca did not put its team into consideration this year as I believe theyve done once or twice before.  I pointed out on another board that there is not team in the east that is more proud of being in the ECAC than Ithaca.  Before every homegame, Ithaca puts up several ECAC banners in the stadium.  Theyve played in numerous ecac football games and the athletic department has hosted and played in dozens of other ecac championship sports.

In terms of the snowgame,  you can put me at the top of the list of Ithaca ballbusters on that one, but it was just ballbusting at that.  I still think games that are played in those condtions take away a little from the game though.  But as Ive pointed out before, RPI might have won 48-7 if it didnt snow.

I still believe Ithaca had been shafted in the past of home playoff games and the playoffs themselves once or twice.

JU...good feedback. RT welcomes posters from other boards...he just doesn't like ever feeling anything resembling a "too good for you" attitude. That's what RT thought he was hearing when it sounded like IC 'isn't interested in the ECAC's"....that comes across as an insult to the teams that accept the bid.

[Jonny Utah]

RT you are right.  That did sound pretty pompus the way it was worded....

[Senor RedTackle]

Hence the hypothetical portion of the exercise.

Chris, having seen Williams this season I would rank them in the No. 15-20 range. Easily able to compete with the best in the Liberty League. Maybe not in the Cortland State/Rowan ballpark, two teams I saw this year. Definitely not as good as UW-Whitewater and Mary Hardin-Baylor, whom I also saw play this year.

..this was on the East Region Playoff Board

Pat....gotta disagree with you on this one. Williams 'easily' competes with Union/Hobart?? RPI should be in that discussion because they still have the talent to put them to top of the LL.  And then you identify Cortland & Rowan as the cream of the crop that Williams has no chance with in the East? Didn't Cortland just get left out of the playoffs? Williams is a decent team but more like a UR, StL, or USMMA....these are the teams with some talent and promise in the LL but not ready to grab the top spot yet.

[lewdogg11]

Hence the hypothetical portion of the exercise.

Chris, having seen Williams this season I would rank them in the No. 15-20 range. Easily able to compete with the best in the Liberty League. Maybe not in the Cortland State/Rowan ballpark, two teams I saw this year. Definitely not as good as UW-Whitewater and Mary Hardin-Baylor, whom I also saw play this year.

..this was on the East Region Playoff Board

Pat....gotta disagree with you on this one. Williams 'easily' competes with Union/Hobart (RPI...because they still have the talent to put them to top of LL) And then you identify Cortland & Rowan as the cream of the crop that Williams has no chance with? Didn't Cortland just get left out of the playoffs? Williams is a decent team but more like a UR, StL, or USMMA....these are the teams with some talent and promise in the LL but not ready to grab the top spot yet.

I just don't know how you can really make an assessment.  Curry looks like a legit team playing Coast guard or Endicott.  Williams looks like a legit team playing Trinity and Amherst.  What's the difference?  Curry has played in the postseason and out of their conference, so you are able to gauge it better. 

Rutgers and Louisville looked as good as any D1 teams i've seen play, the other night, but that was against each other.  Louisville also looked very good against West Virginia.  Based on seeing them play one another, you could make the argument that they could compete vs. Ohio State.  The bottom line is, you don't quite know until they actually play one another.  I was hoping Louisville won so they COULD get that chance.  Now it will be a ho-hum Ohio St. vs. your typical USC type, which we've seen before. 

I think the same could be said with this argument.  Williams COULD be as good or even better than Rowan and the other top d3 contenders.  They could also be a LL or E8 competitor, but not powerhouse, much like Curry would probably do relatively well in the E8 or LL.  I think it's just too difficult to gauge when you're debating apples and oranges.

[The Truth 00]

first time poster on this board but lets not touch the williams thing. once the nescac allows football to play postseason games like the rest of their sports, then we can include them in discussions. but for now, they can't compete with the LL or E8 because we don't play them and we may never get that opportunity to put a hurtin' on them.

[Pat Coleman]

Hence the hypothetical portion of the exercise.

Chris, having seen Williams this season I would rank them in the No. 15-20 range. Easily able to compete with the best in the Liberty League. Maybe not in the Cortland State/Rowan ballpark, two teams I saw this year. Definitely not as good as UW-Whitewater and Mary Hardin-Baylor, whom I also saw play this year.

..this was on the East Region Playoff Board

Pat....gotta disagree with you on this one. Williams 'easily' competes with Union/Hobart?? RPI should be in that discussion because they still have the talent to put them to top of the LL.  And then you identify Cortland & Rowan as the cream of the crop that Williams has no chance with in the East? Didn't Cortland just get left out of the playoffs? Williams is a decent team but more like a UR, StL, or USMMA....these are the teams with some talent and promise in the LL but not ready to grab the top spot yet.

Is someone not allowed to be the cream of the crop merely because the NCAA's criteria leaves them out? That's not a logical assessment. You're using the NCAA selections to judge who's the best teams and that's just not what they mean.

I believe you agreed with me in Week 4 when I said the Williams team we both saw would compete with the top three of the LL. When did that change to include the LL's sixth-place team?

[Reno Hightower]

Hence the hypothetical portion of the exercise.

Chris, having seen Williams this season I would rank them in the No. 15-20 range. Easily able to compete with the best in the Liberty League. Maybe not in the Cortland State/Rowan ballpark, two teams I saw this year. Definitely not as good as UW-Whitewater and Mary Hardin-Baylor, whom I also saw play this year.

..this was on the East Region Playoff Board

Pat....gotta disagree with you on this one. Williams 'easily' competes with Union/Hobart?? RPI should be in that discussion because they still have the talent to put them to top of the LL.  And then you identify Cortland & Rowan as the cream of the crop that Williams has no chance with in the East? Didn't Cortland just get left out of the playoffs? Williams is a decent team but more like a UR, StL, or USMMA....these are the teams with some talent and promise in the LL but not ready to grab the top spot yet.

Is someone not allowed to be the cream of the crop merely because the NCAA's criteria leaves them out? That's not a logical assessment. You're using the NCAA selections to judge who's the best teams and that's just not what they mean.

I believe you agreed with me in Week 4 when I said the Williams team we both saw would compete with the top three of the LL. When did that change to include the LL's sixth-place team?

Cortland must have been left out for a reason Pat. Their SOS wasnt very impressive is what it looks like. And please keep in mind that Cortland did lose to Hobart in the Playoffs last year. You say that Williams may not be in the "same ballpark" as Rowan and Cortland yet in head to head play Union and Hobart showed that they are definetly in the "same ballpark" as those 2 teams.

I have not seen Williams play. To me, this is a different subject. I do not know how good they are.

I am simply saying that you seem to be both placing Cortland and Rowan on a pedestal and underestimating Union and Hobart. If Cortland had beaten Hobart head-to-head and Rowan had blown out Union, I would not be posting this.

Of course, that was 2005 and this is 2006. So we shall see.....

[Pat Coleman]

That was indeed 2005. And I saw Cortland with its No. 1 quarterback. That's what I'm basing on.

[zachattack22]

ZA has had no time at all to review posts or posts his own....Congrats to RPI for a well fought win....ZA doesn't care to hear about the conditions on the field as both teams have to play in the same slop....Oh well, that's the way it goes.

Let's be very honest here...This was a very good RPI team, better than their record...But...it WAS NOT a GREAT RPI TEAM...NOR IS THIS A GREAT UNION TEAM..., but a very good union team.  That's just the way ZA sees it.  

Two very good (but not great teams) battling it out....with one team more focused, more desiring of victory.  Once again leaving us to wonder...are these high powered offenses or rediculously weak defenses....Guess we'll never know for sure....

This will really piss U-fans off, but ZA has to say it....RPI continues to make better adjustments than Union....They adapt better to what is occurring at "ground zero" and RPI's defense at least attempts to pressure the QB and looks like they absolutely know that Union is fairly predictable on both sides of the ball, especially on defense.  Union's 3-4  defense should be either a thing of the past or coached with some sort of creativity....Let's be real...The U played two games all year on defense....St. Lawrence and Hobart....Two out of nine...That's bulls__t! They let every other team back in the game when those teams were begging to be KNOCKED OUT! BEGGING!!!

RPI played well on defense at times, but most of the year, their defense played like Unions...Inconsistent.

This is probably ZA's last post as ZA has watched Union under achieve and under perform for several years when they had great talent and experience.  Yet has watched other teams over-achieve with less because some other teams did not forget that football is NOT just about talent, stats, who runs the fastest 40, etc....but instead focuses on being in great shape, being tremendously prepared for each and every game, is prepared to "manufacture" wins through coaching decisions when their team is not playing their best or has suffered some bad luck scenerios, and have the mental will to win the game, even if out matched by physical size and strength.

ZA doesn't care about records of success and winning percentages over the years.
IF Union's goal is not just to win the LL...not just to win the shoes, but to go DEEP into the playoffs....then they need to please stop being so predictable on both sides of the ball (especially defense) and stop acting like they're going to win simply because their "X's" are better than the other teams "O's".... (We're going to win because hey, we're Union"....Give me a break!!!

To those U-fans that will dislike this post...ZA says....he doens't really give a s__t!

What's the goal...Is the goal 7 and 2, 6 and 3, 8 and 1....or is the goal to go deep into the playoffs?

IF the goal is NOT to go deep into the playoffs, but to simply "represent" well each year...then ZA has NO complaints...Zero, nada...NONE!!!  Because Union is stating its football goal and achieving it.  If that's the goal, so be it...Then state it! And ZA will shut up!

But IF the goal IS to go deep into the NCAA playoffs...then you don't just wait for the talent to suddenly show up all at the same time...you USE your talent to win!  AND you COACH to WIN...And you play players that might have LESS talent, but MORE desire!!! And you STOP running a HIGH SCHOOL 3-4 defense....You run a COLLEGE or PRO 3-4 defense...AND coaches, IF you don't know what ZA means by this, then you should NOT be coaching....It's EMBARRASSING!!!! Stop thinking you're going to win JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE UNION!!!  YOU HAVE TO EARN IT!!!

Feel free to "trounce" ZA....It's ZA's last and final post....

[cstate19]

look i know that this means nothing...........but if you look at the stats cortland physically beat up on hobart last year.........a couple of lucky breaks......i know a win is a win and i greatly respect the hobart program but you guys are talking about the game like hobart won by 30.......regardless good luck to hobart in the playoffs

[Reno Hightower]

ZA has had no time at all to review posts or posts his own....Congrats to RPI for a well fought win....ZA doesn't care to hear about the conditions on the field as both teams have to play in the same slop....Oh well, that's the way it goes.

Let's be very honest here...This was a very good RPI team, better than their record...But...it WAS NOT a GREAT RPI TEAM...NOR IS THIS A GREAT UNION TEAM..., but a very good union team.  That's just the way ZA sees it.  

Two very good (but not great teams) battling it out....with one team more focused, more desiring of victory.  Once again leaving us to wonder...are these high powered offenses or rediculously weak defenses....Guess we'll never know for sure....

This will really piss U-fans off, but ZA has to say it....RPI continues to make better adjustments than Union....They adapt better to what is occurring at "ground zero" and RPI's defense at least attempts to pressure the QB and looks like they absolutely know that Union is fairly predictable on both sides of the ball, especially on defense.  Union's 3-4  defense should be either a thing of the past or coached with some sort of creativity....Let's be real...The U played two games all year on defense....St. Lawrence and Hobart....Two out of nine...That's bulls__t! They let every other team back in the game when those teams were begging to be KNOCKED OUT! BEGGING!!!

RPI played well on defense at times, but most of the year, their defense played like Unions...Inconsistent.

This is probably ZA's last post as ZA has watched Union under achieve and under perform for several years when they had great talent and experience.  Yet has watched other teams over-achieve with less because some other teams did not forget that football is NOT just about talent, stats, who runs the fastest 40, etc....but instead focuses on being in great shape, being tremendously prepared for each and every game, is prepared to "manufacture" wins through coaching decisions when their team is not playing their best or has suffered some bad luck scenerios, and have the mental will to win the game, even if out matched by physical size and strength.

ZA doesn't care about records of success and winning percentages over the years.
IF Union's goal is not just to win the LL...not just to win the shoes, but to go DEEP into the playoffs....then they need to please stop being so predictable on both sides of the ball (especially defense) and stop acting like they're going to win simply because their "X's" are better than the other teams "O's".... (We're going to win because hey, we're Union"....Give me a break!!!

To those U-fans that will dislike this post...ZA says....he doens't really give a s__t!

What's the goal...Is the goal 7 and 2, 6 and 3, 8 and 1....or is the goal to go deep into the playoffs?

IF the goal is NOT to go deep into the playoffs, but to simply "represent" well each year...then ZA has NO complaints...Zero, nada...NONE!!!  Because Union is stating its football goal and achieving it.  If that's the goal, so be it...Then state it! And ZA will shut up!

But IF the goal IS to go deep into the NCAA playoffs...then you don't just wait for the talent to suddenly show up all at the same time...you USE your talent to win!  AND you COACH to WIN...And you play players that might have LESS talent, but MORE desire!!! And you STOP running a HIGH SCHOOL 3-4 defense....You run a COLLEGE or PRO 3-4 defense...AND coaches, IF you don't know what ZA means by this, then you should NOT be coaching....It's EMBARRASSING!!!! Stop thinking you're going to win JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE UNION!!!  YOU HAVE TO EARN IT!!!

Feel free to "trounce" ZA....It's ZA's last and final post....

ZA that is a terrible attitude, one that many of Union's players seem to have.
I was at the game. Union had Jon Brance triple covered on a 3rd and 8 and Branche came down with it. Now, Im not a coach.....but I have to guess that scheming a team up whereas you have 3 of your players on the 1 player that the opponent is trying to get the ball to is probably a good scheme and would be considered good coaching. Players play the game. And the Union defensive scheme that you are complaining about also held the vaunted RPI Offense to 7 points in the 2nd half.
The thing that stood out to me the most was the enthusiasm that RPI showed for the game where the Union team just did not. RPI wanted to play that game more than Union did. After every good RPI play, their sidelines erupted. Union would make some great plays also and their sideline was like a funeral. Union had a big INT late in the game and there was literally ZERO reaction by their sideline.
This past Saturday was not about X's and O's. It was not about one team having better players than another team. This past Saturday was about RPI being excited and fired up to play Union and Union not feeling the same way about the game. When 1 team is excited and the other team is not, I can tell you who is going to win. How you cannot be excited for a rivalry game is beyond me. Shoot, I played, I was excited to practice nevermind a game. I hate to say this as much as you hated to say what you wrote but I just dont think that this Union team has a whole lot of heart.
I guess I just saw the game different that you did. People, on all levels of football, are too quick to blame coaches these days.