FB: Liberty League

[Tags]

RT had a situation today that he felt compelled to post about to get the perspective of LLPP, Inc.

RT is sitting in the doctor's office for a routine visit. Sitting across from RT is a suspect looking couple bordering on trailer trash. They have a couple of kids with them...an infant and a toddler. The kids are there to get some shots. The mother takes the infant in first and leaves poppa trash with the toddler in the waiting room w/ RT and some other patients. The toddler is screaming up a storm b/c she just came out of the office after getting shots. Toddler did not like said shots. RT is cool w/ that...hell, he didn't like nasty needles either when he was 3.

So toddler is still crying and poppa trash starts getting angry and begins handling the toddler a little too rough for RT's taste. He is berating her loudly then pushing her forcefully into the chair. He then forces her across his lap and pins her down w/ one leg to try to get her to stop crying. RT is sitting w/ the Mrs and we're both incredulous. The girl tries to wiggle out of the leg hold and the guy slams the 3 yr old into the chair...he pushes her too hard and makes her head hit off the wall. The waiting room is full of elderly patients, RT and MRT, and everyone is stunned but don't know what to say.

Now RT is not married (yet) and has no kids...but he has nieces & nephews and is a friend to little ones. After the last manhandle which RT though was abuse, RT kind of snapped and got up and jumped over in front of the guy and basically threatend to beat the s*#t out of the dude if he manhandled his daughter again. RT suggested that if 40 year old trailer trash was so full of energy, RT would be happy to oblige him in the office right here.  For the first time in his relationship, RT's lady did not take umbrance with an aggressive RT confronting another person.

So the question....is RT out of line intervening in a public place in between a father and his toddler, who was clearly being handled in a way which crossed the line to potential abuse? This is sensitive for RT because RT recalls being spanked as a kid here and there when he deserved it (and probably deserved more than he got) and don't feel he ever needed someone to step in. Also, RT doesn't want some clown trying to poke in RT's business some day w/ his own kids when he has them....you had to be there to appreciate it but it just didn't sit well with RT the way this dude was pushing around his 3 year old who didn't like being in a doctor's office getting a needle stuck in her. When her head hit the wall b/c of this guy, RT snapped......

Tough call RT - Tags can see where it would boarder on butting into someone elses business (similar to what you said you did not want to experience). However sounds like said trailer tenant took it a little far when the child's head hit the wall. Tags was raised with a father who was very strict & would discipline w/ a swift spanking etc... But Tags never felt it wasn't warranted. Tags thinks RT did the correct thing in letting the trailer tenant know that there is a difference between discipline & abuse.

For what it's worth, Tags stands behind your decision.

[superman57]

SUperman stands behind your decision too...It takes a lot to step up and if you felt the need to step up and say something then it was definatly the right thing to do....while I have no issue with spanking a child if they deserve it NEVER EVER SHOULD IT HAPPEN IN PUBLIC. take the child to the car

[The Truth 00]

there was no need to intervene...you should have dropped him!

[zachattack22]

RT, the deciding factor is what is reasonable for the circumstances. Now, that's kind of subjective because everyone has a different idea of reasonalbe. However, from a legal point of view, the details of your description would weigh in on the parent's reaction being unreasonable as you describe it.

Forgetting legal, there then is also what's moral and ethical in that situation....Suppose the next step was to slam the kid even harder and this time the kid head hit the wall or the floor and caused damage to the child....Big difference from a quick spanking or something of that nature. This person, if acting that way in front of others, will be HOW much worse in private with no one watching.

You did the right thing. Failing to act is just as dangerous as acting sometimes.  Of course, if the guy took RT up on it and RT DT'd the dude, then we're into another discussion on what is reasonable.

But to step in like you did...to ZA, was necessary.....

[mattvsmith]

From today's Times Union


Highest paid leaders of private universities-- 2004-2005

Audrey Doberstein, Wilmington College, $2,746,241

Donald Ross, Lynn University, $1,313,255

Gordon Gee, Vanderbilt University, $1,171,211

Roger Hull, Union College, $1,024,652

Jeffrey Lehman, Cornell University, $1,004,034

Shirley Ann Jackson, Rensselaer Polytechnic, $ 983,365

Aram Chobanian, Boston University, $945,654

Harold Raveche Stevens, Inst. of Tech., $917,538

Constantine Papadakis, Drexel University, $886,279

Benjamin Ladner, American University, $881,696

The Rev thinks he should get into the business of running a small northeastern school.

The Rev's contract shall call for seven-figures and a large percetage of female asian students.

[Tags]

And Tags would like to be the first in line to be the Rev's assistant 8)

[mattvsmith]

The Rev is not entirely against slapping chldren.
In his youth, The Rev was slapped many, many, many times, yet cannot think of a single time he did not deserve it due to his misbehavior combined with generous and ample warnings prior to slaps.  Sometimes slaps were the only thing that would slow "Li'l Rev" down.  Rev's mom used them sparingly.  And, contrary to popular belief, The Rev was never hit by nuns thorughout his 9 years at St. Paul's School.  His (non-nun) 4th grade teacher did slap him one time after she said, "Young man, you will wipe that smirk off your face or else I will wipe it off for you."  Li'l Rev got a sh*t-eating grin from ear to ear and was subsequently smacked but good.  To this day, The Rev respects that teacher more than just about anyone.

However! The Rev was never subjected to leg-locks, throw downs, or slams.  These are far beyond reasonable force with a child.  In this situation as described by you, RT, it is especially uncalled for.

The toddler was crying because of pain caused by the shots.  The father's proper response is to console, not to body-check.

Father acted way out of bounds, and worse yet, did so in public.  The Rev is of the mindset when people bring their business out in public for all to see, they are fair game for public criticism and rebuke.  The Rev is sick and tired of lack of moral standards within the public sphere.  "Who are you to judge me?" they ask.  I'm another human being, that's who! 

So, RT, The Rev thinks you did the right thing.  This guy was clearly acting in an immoral manner in public.  RT publicly rebuked him.  Perhaps that father will consider what you said and improve his child-rearing skills.  Either that or he will bear a grudge and take out his anger and frustration further on the children.  Keep an eye on the nightly news for this creep.

[Knightstalker]

KS thinks RT did the right thing, KS is a father and has said things to people in public before.  KS gets a lot of dirty looks.

[Frank Rossi]

Speaking of people needing a good talking to...This thing came full circle tonight on Letterman.  This was perhaps as surreal as it gets...

http://vidclick.blogspot.com/2006/11/seinfeld-star-apologizes-on-letterman.html

[Stlarry]

Hey LLPP, check out d3.com front page.  TA has been named one of the 10 Gagliardi finalists.  RT, Stlarry believes you did the right thing.  It takes some brass cojones to stand up to someone for mistreating their kid.  There is a huge difference between being firm with a kid when they are acting out, and just being an overbearing git that takes their frustration out on their kids.  Sounds like the white-trash father was in the latter category.

p.s.-anybody else in the south getting hit by this nor'easter?  It's pretty nasty in Charleston, sleet, hail, the works.  Stlarry moved south to get AWAY from this crap.

[Naked Nott Run]

Saint... NNR is experiencing 45-60 degree weather... NNR is a Union Alum and got as use to -50 wind chill as humanly possible.. NNR is wearing sandles and loving it... NNR notices everyone looking at him like he is insane... Nothing like watching 80 year old ex-New Yorkers wearing parka's and down jackets... NNR is bold enough to say the following...

Florida athletes= Tough as nails
Florida seniors citizens= girly men...and woman

P.S. NNR thinks he is comming down with frostbite

[Stlarry]

Saint... NNR is experiencing 45-60 degree weather... NNR is a Union Alum and got as use to -50 wind chill as humanly possible.. NNR is wearing sandles and loving it... NNR notices everyone looking at him like he is insane... Nothing like watching 80 year old ex-New Yorkers wearing parka's and down jackets... NNR is bold enough to say the following...

Florida athletes= Tough as nails
Florida seniors citizens= girly men...and woman

P.S. NNR thinks he is comming down with frostbite

NNR, agree about the dealing with the cold thing.  Stlarry has no problem with the temp, but the sleet especially is wreaking havoc with the traffic since you can't go anywhere in this town without driving over some major bridge, especially since half the people down here are elderly people from ny/nj that have relocated and think they can drive in this.  Nothing better than trying to get somewhere on time and getting stuck behind grandpa jones going 2mph in his crown vic.

update-there is now a decent amount of snow coming down in the mixture...hell has apparently frozen over.  Garuntee there will be no bread, milk, or tp left in the grocery stores.

[PBR...]

time to move further south to key west and open up a hammock bar....

[Regulator]

RT-
i was never a fan of the threatening tough guy....Put the ball in his court by telling him "please do not do that"  If he puffs up after that, get in his grill and throw some bows.

That must have been uncomfortable!!

[PBR...]

attn: llpp'rs....pbr expects everyones full participation.....

SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 20 (UPI) -- A Southern California houseboat-dwelling couple has suggested world peace might be achieved if everyone in the world had an orgasm on Dec. 22.
Anti-war activists Donna Sheehan, 76, and her partner, Paul Reffel, 55, are
veterans at generating attention for peace, as they did in 2002 before the Iraq invasion, when they and dozens of friends stripped naked and laid down in a Marin County field to spell out the word "peace," the San Francisco Chronicle reported.
Sheehan is calling the venture the Global Orgasm for Peace event and said it doesn't matter what time of day the event occurs and nor does it matter if
people don't have partners, the report said.
The couple said the way to show others of your participation is the global "OK" sign and a wink.
Whether the positive vibrations have any effect on hostilities remains to be
seen, but U.S. Geological Survey spokeswoman Stephanie Hanna said there was no chance the energy would register seismically either, the newspaper said.
"The filters we have screen out any man-made activity, like a truck rolling
past, or, uh, the activity you described," Hanna said.