FB: Liberty League

[Senor RedTackle]

RT is angry the guru edited his signature line

And I'm angry you posted risque material all over my message board, at the bottom of each of your thousands of posts.

Sorry..didnt realize carmen electra in a bikini on a pole was more risque than other pics of scantily clad girls or cheerleaders that guys have posted before. It's ok...your house, your rules.


Did you get my email? I never heard back.....

[union89]

OK Frank now let me say the last post irritated me..

Let me see if I can logically summarize

1) You say the rules favor RPI with the 1 loss tie breaker

2) You detest the fact that as you suggest RPI does not schedule the hardest OOC opponents.

3) You admit that this serves RPI well later in the season with the rules as they are.

4) You assert this will only prove to somehow hurt the program?

5) You reference a player who was attracted to the program because they were in the playoffs?

I believe 1, 2, and 3 don't equal #4. 

As for # 5, If I was a player coming out of HS and was evaluating my options ala D3, my preference would be in order to play for a winning program, play in a competitive league and play for a team that had a realistic shot at the NCAA's.  I would be less interested in whether our OOC schedule included Muhlenberg or Albright. 
Let's see the coach says "we've made the NCAA's 3 of the last 5 years" or "look at our tough schedule"

Your crusade seems to be misguided.  RPI plays a soft OOC schedule.. others do not... that is a given and not debated by anyone on the site.

Should RPI be penalized for following a strategy of building their teams confidence early in the season while at the same time putting themselves in a good situation come tiebreaker time as the rules currently exist?  No

Should the rules be changed?  Appears so. 

Is RPI ranking deserved.. maybe.. maybe not.  Can Union do something about RPI appearing in the playoffs.... sure. 

Think outside of the box for a second.  There are two ways a team can broaden its recruiting reach effectively:

1) Gain traction deep into the playoffs; or

2) Have exposure in areas where you have interest in kids who may not have considered the school before.

There are a lot of teams that finish 9-1 and 8-2 (or in RPI's case, 8-1 and 7-2) routinely, but it doesn't mean they've scored well in the recruiting game (see NEFC teams).  Pennsylvania is a hotbed of high school talent that seems to go untapped by RPI -- and what exposure does RPI have to Pennsylvania?  With the exception of Susquehanna now -- not much.  Same goes for New Jersey.  

With the current state of RPI's schedule, I find another 2003 very unlikely in RPI's future.  Joe King's comment about scheduling earlier this season spells a pretty ugly scenario for how he's going to be able to attract 2003-type attention in the future for his team.  This will not make it easy to recruit kids from other states that might read message boards like these and watch the bottom of ESPN's screen during the Division 3 playoffs -- kids in states like Louisiana, Florida and out west.

Now, I'm going to take a step back and say I like Joe King and his entire family.  His wife was my sixth grade teacher at St. Mary's in Ballston Spa, and I used to go to the track with his sons as they were schoolmates of mine growing up.  I always see his son Joey in church when I'm up there, and I consider them all friends still.  So, when I make these comments, realize that I'm not making them in the whole "RPI Sucks" mode (that's all in good fun with the Shoes Game coming up in less than two weeks) -- I'm making them in more of a "a strong RPI helps make a strong Liberty League in the future" mode.  I've said it before -- if every team in the LL adopted Joe's philosophy about scheduling, then the LL would be relegated to NEFC status.  Since RPI is enjoying at least playoff berth success, or the stronger possibility of such success, year in and year out, then there is incentive for other LL teams to do the same thing as RPI does in their scheduling...and I think we all agree, that's a terrible position to take.

Curry is a winning program, Stim...does that mean it automatically goes high on a high-schooler's list of schools to check out by that fact alone?  No.  So, I think you need to take a step back and think about the grand scheme of what could happen over the next few years instead of knee-jerk by saying 9-1 with a first-round loss is acceptable every year for recruiting purposes.

Well stated with the RPI/NEFC analogy.  If RPI continues to schedule cream puffs OOC they are mirroring the weak schedule, untested until playoff time approach.....bottom line is, the LL playoff qualifing system must change.

Frank, you stated that RPI does not do well in areas like PA because they do not schedule games there.....PA is probably not a target of thiers.  Beating the snot out of Endicott probably gains them a good deal of attention in MA.....they seem to always do well in MA....aside from those 2 lugheads LewDogg11 & AppleJack.......

[union89]

UC has finished a 6-4, and 3-3, in arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country.

...

Who's to say that Joe King and the rest of the RPI contingent didn't think Utica would continue to improve and not slink back down to the basement/cellar area of the Empire 8?

Did you really just post that with a straight face?!

Yes I did.

Well, you best discuss with your editors, since the E8 isn't ranked nearly as high as you're statement would presume according to K-Mack's list from a few weeks back.

I think this whole OOC thing goes two ways: One way which says that RPI plays a weak OOC sked with Utica and Endicott, and the other that says Union plays a tougher OOC with Springfield and Muhlenberg...
No doubt that most of the time, that will be the case, however, How about in 2005 when Springfield was in a down year? Did that mean Union played a weaker schedule that year? No. The OOC is relative, and all "wack", imho.

Bottom line is, who consistantly has better years, year in and year out, Utica or Springfield??

Is there even a defense for Utica here??

[dewcrew88]

UC has finished a 6-4, and 3-3, in arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country.

...

Who's to say that Joe King and the rest of the RPI contingent didn't think Utica would continue to improve and not slink back down to the basement/cellar area of the Empire 8?

Did you really just post that with a straight face?!

Yes I did.

Well, you best discuss with your editors, since the E8 isn't ranked nearly as high as you're statement would presume according to K-Mack's list from a few weeks back.

I think this whole OOC thing goes two ways: One way which says that RPI plays a weak OOC sked with Utica and Endicott, and the other that says Union plays a tougher OOC with Springfield and Muhlenberg...
No doubt that most of the time, that will be the case, however, How about in 2005 when Springfield was in a down year? Did that mean Union played a weaker schedule that year? No. The OOC is relative, and all "wack", imho.

Bottom line is, who consistantly has better years, year in and year out, Utica or Springfield??

Is there even a defense for Utica here??

Consistently, yes, Springfield has the better year most of the time. However, my point was that if Springfield is down in a particular year, does that mean Union played a weak schedule that year? No.

[union89]

RT is angry the guru edited his signature line

And I'm angry you posted risque material all over my message board, at the bottom of each of your thousands of posts.

"Mr. Hand (Guru).....isn't this our message board since we are all sharing it at the same time??"

Signed,
Jeff Spiccoli

[redswarm81]

"Mr. Hand (Guru).....isn't this our message board since we are all sharing it at the same time??"

Signed,
Jeff Spiccoli

Totally awesome!!

Sharing.  Yeah, that's right, sharing.  Sharing--that's what I'm used to hearing around these message boards.  Sharing.  U89 likes sharing the message board with everyone.

['gro]

Sorry U89, Applejack may call beantown home now, but he's a NY section II product.

[union89]

Sorry U89, Applejack may call beantown home now, but he's a NY section II product.

That explains alot....with his easy going persona, is LD11 actually from someplace like San Diego?? 

(Enter Ron Burgundy line here..........)

[res ipsa loquitur]

Who hath smitten me?!

I make a couple of comments on the LL and E8 boards, and my karma is smashed.

Welcome to the party!  (But it wasn't me)  Res says you best be on your game here.


And did somebody say "risque?"  I don't get it.  But I bet, much like the Supreme Court, you know obscenity when you see it?

['gro]

check out the pic on the front page




1. That's not the way my pop warner coach told me to hold the ball
2. Where should the ultimate warrior "wrist" band go: above or below the elbow?
3. Heroic play by the ball carrier playing with a broken arm
4. Love the expression on the kid's face in the background, just came back from the concession stand with a gatorade.

[redswarm81]

Who hath smitten me?!

I make a couple of comments on the LL and E8 boards, and my karma is smashed.

You got a lot of catching up to do.

I note for the record that dewcrew, the East's Jimmy Olson, has laughed out loud at RedSwarm81 posts.  (That's not hearsay Frank, that's a party admission.)

[res ipsa loquitur]

Gro that is hilarious.  Looks like the Mules "water boy." 

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!

[gordonmann]

Gro:

I had the same thought along the lines of No. 3.  Looks like it's dangling from its socket.

[stimulator]

Think outside of the box for a second.  There are two ways a team can broaden its recruiting reach effectively:

1) Gain traction deep into the playoffs; or

2) Have exposure in areas where you have interest in kids who may not have considered the school before.

There are a lot of teams that finish 9-1 and 8-2 (or in RPI's case, 8-1 and 7-2) routinely, but it doesn't mean they've scored well in the recruiting game (see NEFC teams).  Pennsylvania is a hotbed of high school talent that seems to go untapped by RPI -- and what exposure does RPI have to Pennsylvania?  With the exception of Susquehanna now -- not much.  Same goes for New Jersey. 

With the current state of RPI's schedule, I find another 2003 very unlikely in RPI's future.  Joe King's comment about scheduling earlier this season spells a pretty ugly scenario for how he's going to be able to attract 2003-type attention in the future for his team.  This will not make it easy to recruit kids from other states that might read message boards like these and watch the bottom of ESPN's screen during the Division 3 playoffs -- kids in states like Louisiana, Florida and out west.

Now, I'm going to take a step back and say I like Joe King and his entire family.  His wife was my sixth grade teacher at St. Mary's in Ballston Spa, and I used to go to the track with his sons as they were schoolmates of mine growing up.  I always see his son Joey in church when I'm up there, and I consider them all friends still.  So, when I make these comments, realize that I'm not making them in the whole "RPI Sucks" mode (that's all in good fun with the Shoes Game coming up in less than two weeks) -- I'm making them in more of a "a strong RPI helps make a strong Liberty League in the future" mode.  I've said it before -- if every team in the LL adopted Joe's philosophy about scheduling, then the LL would be relegated to NEFC status.  Since RPI is enjoying at least playoff berth success, or the stronger possibility of such success, year in and year out, then there is incentive for other LL teams to do the same thing as RPI does in their scheduling...and I think we all agree, that's a terrible position to take.

Curry is a winning program, Stim...does that mean it automatically goes high on a high-schooler's list of schools to check out by that fact alone?  No.  So, I think you need to take a step back and think about the grand scheme of what could happen over the next few years instead of knee-jerk by saying 9-1 with a first-round loss is acceptable every year for recruiting purposes.

Frank appreciate your argument ... it is certainly well thought out and I certainly understand your appraisal of the RPI OOC situation is not based in "RPI Sucks" context.. however I think your argument re: recruiting works better on the D1 level than D3.

First let me say that although it doesn't always work this way (unfortunately for the young men that make the mistake), the first consideration of whether to go to RPI, Union, Hobart or even Curry for that matter should be the school.  Whether the curriculum, academic reputation , major focus areas and culture/environment are a good fit.  A winning FB program for a D3 FB player is a bonus and certainly should not be a main factor in which is the athlete's school of choice.  Contrast this with a D1 player (and I know I am generalizing here) who wants to know if the school he is considering plays Notre Dame or is entering the ACC next year.

Your assertion that LL schools should be recruiting nationally struck another chord with me.  Somehow it seems that D3 schools should recruit regionally.   I know this is a bit of a backward thought and maybe I am out of touch here but I wonder how a kid feels knowing his family may only get to see him play a few games in his career.  If your true desire is to go to the NFL so be it.. leave wherever and go to USC or OSU or any football factory but it has to be hard for parents of a D3 player and those remote kids to only experience phone calls and internet radio when this is truly the last FB they will ever play. 

Re: Curry they do draw some kids (albeit locally here in the NE).  For those kids winning the NEFC and potentially making the playoffs year in and year out is a draw.

I respect your opinion but I just can't see how playing the iron in your OOC schedule teams makes that big a deal in a prospective recruits mind.  Having just gone through it recently having a winning program was important to my son but the schedule was much less so. In fact ironically what made the difference in his mind was a talk given by one of the professors regarding the opportunities at RPI within the Management School.  And btw RPI has players from AZ, WA, TX, FL, CA, MD, GA, RI and yes even PA on their roster this year.  They must have not hear Endicott was on the schedule.

Lastly I understand the premise that playing tougher competition makes for a more accomplished squad.... however if any team makes it out of the LL and into the playoffs and you proceed to go one and done, it most likely wasn't that you didn't play Springfield or Ithaca, it just wasn't your day...you either didn't play well or weren't up to the level of competition.  It can happen if you play the iron or two teams that you should beat. 

Should RPI get beaten soundly year in and year out by the Unions and Hobarts and Rochesters of the LL then I guess I will come around to your way of thinking but they seem to be competitive every year.

[Tags]

You guys & your 300 thousand word essay arguments are killin me over here.