FB: Liberty League

[Jonny Utah]

Am I the only one that loves having Mt. Union in the east?  And I always loved when the D1 basketball tournement had wierd matchups in any round.  It makes it fun I think.

Bottom line is that we have seen possibly the best regular season in the history of college football at any level with Mt. Union this year.  And now for the next four weeks us fans get to see what eastern football is all about.

Go Bombers, and bring it on Mt. Union......bring it on......

If I were to give you my East-Region-only point of view in a vacuum, I'd have to say that I can't love it easily when it's pretty obvious that the East Region in general has hit a bit of a down year this year.  The E8 seemed somewhat lackluster once Alfred fell apart -- the fact that Ithaca squirted through someone indicates that things were a little odd here -- and the argument about 3 Pool C teams in the East is a little underwhelming since there are 22 automatic bids in which the East only has five bids (and no Pool B teams that made it through).  Percentage-wise, the East really should get three C bids each year under these circumstances to balance brackets, although it's no guarantee.  I think in any other year, I'd be more excited about the East's chances in this scenario -- but the fact that Curry somehow managed a #3 seed (or #2 sans MUC) might explain a little bit more about the state of the East heading into the playoffs.  

Does this mean I think perpetual dogging of the East teams is necessary?  No.  Any given Saturday... And also, just to make it clear, my concern about the bracketing is not an East/MUC-centric issue -- it's viewing it from 10,000 ft. and trying to apply it to past and future years to see what could happen with it.

I dont think the east has had a down year.  It just seems that the top teams all played one another and that the teams that usually cant beat the top teams (Rochester, Hartwick, Kean,) did.  Kind of like d1 football I think.  Just because there is no clear cut #1 team this year, it doesnt mean the top 10 teams arent as good as the top 10 as last year.

I think part of the argument depends on whether you think Hartwick was a legitmate team this year or not.  The Utica game, not so much because of the closeness of the score as it was for the sheer lack of defense for 60 minutes+4 drives, backed up my previous thoughts about Hartwick.  Congratulations to the Hawks, but it sort of puts big question marks on the strength of the supposedly strongest conference in the East (the E8).  Then, let's look at the NJAC and the oddities that arose in there.  A lot of people feel that Hobart is the strongest team in the bunch right now -- and Hobart has two losses this year and probably, according to most, one of the weaker teams that Hobart's brought to the playoffs over the last few years (once you get past the QB).  So, I don't know if I could agree with you top-10-team assessment very easily based on what I've seen, heard and know about the year gone by.

Well I would say Hartwick must be considered a team that no one could take lightly anyway.  I also think Utica is a changed team with the new coach.  And Im still thinking SJF is the best team in the east right now hands down (the non-Muc east that is)

[Frank Rossi]

Am I the only one that loves having Mt. Union in the east?  And I always loved when the D1 basketball tournement had wierd matchups in any round.  It makes it fun I think.

Bottom line is that we have seen possibly the best regular season in the history of college football at any level with Mt. Union this year.  And now for the next four weeks us fans get to see what eastern football is all about.

Go Bombers, and bring it on Mt. Union......bring it on......

If I were to give you my East-Region-only point of view in a vacuum, I'd have to say that I can't love it easily when it's pretty obvious that the East Region in general has hit a bit of a down year this year.  The E8 seemed somewhat lackluster once Alfred fell apart -- the fact that Ithaca squirted through someone indicates that things were a little odd here -- and the argument about 3 Pool C teams in the East is a little underwhelming since there are 22 automatic bids in which the East only has five bids (and no Pool B teams that made it through).  Percentage-wise, the East really should get three C bids each year under these circumstances to balance brackets, although it's no guarantee.  I think in any other year, I'd be more excited about the East's chances in this scenario -- but the fact that Curry somehow managed a #3 seed (or #2 sans MUC) might explain a little bit more about the state of the East heading into the playoffs.  

Does this mean I think perpetual dogging of the East teams is necessary?  No.  Any given Saturday... And also, just to make it clear, my concern about the bracketing is not an East/MUC-centric issue -- it's viewing it from 10,000 ft. and trying to apply it to past and future years to see what could happen with it.

I dont think the east has had a down year.  It just seems that the top teams all played one another and that the teams that usually cant beat the top teams (Rochester, Hartwick, Kean,) did.  Kind of like d1 football I think.  Just because there is no clear cut #1 team this year, it doesnt mean the top 10 teams arent as good as the top 10 as last year.

I think part of the argument depends on whether you think Hartwick was a legitmate team this year or not.  The Utica game, not so much because of the closeness of the score as it was for the sheer lack of defense for 60 minutes+4 drives, backed up my previous thoughts about Hartwick.  Congratulations to the Hawks, but it sort of puts big question marks on the strength of the supposedly strongest conference in the East (the E8).  Then, let's look at the NJAC and the oddities that arose in there.  A lot of people feel that Hobart is the strongest team in the bunch right now -- and Hobart has two losses this year and probably, according to most, one of the weaker teams that Hobart's brought to the playoffs over the last few years (once you get past the QB).  So, I don't know if I could agree with you top-10-team assessment very easily based on what I've seen, heard and know about the year gone by.

Well I would say Hartwick must be considered a team that no one could take lightly anyway.  I also think Utica is a changed team with the new coach.  And Im still thinking SJF is the best team in the east right now hands down (the non-Muc east that is)

Maybe changed, but to the tune of 70 points?!  Hell, that coach better look to D-1A schools if he can motivate a team to that degree after a mid-season change   (Just to note to Pat and DewCrew, this literary technique is called sarcasm...as is this parenthetical).

SJF is a tough call -- I'd agree with you if the opposition SJF played toward the end of the season were a bit stronger.  Hobart played a pretty meaty schedule in the final three weeks and handled it well -- giving them a slight edge in my view.  I'm not taking anything away from SJF, but it's more a momentum thing than anything else, with six very good games in a row against that meaty competition.  If Alfred hadn't collapsed at the end of the season, I'd probably give SJF a slight edge in this assessment.

[Jonny Utah]

Im still just basing a lot of what SJF has done this year on what happened last year.  They still did not lose that many players, and except for the Hartwick game has had a similar season so far I would say......

[Frank Rossi]

Im still just basing a lot of what SJF has done this year on what happened last year.  They still did not lose that many players, and except for the Hartwick game has had a similar season so far I would say......

See, though, I would've given that same analysis to Union in 2006 since they had the crux of their team from 2005 back after the 10-0 (11-1 including playoffs) season.  Yet, different years bring different results, attitudes, competition and scenarios.  I think if Union/SJF were played in 2005 (against SJF's 2006 players), the result would have been much closer if not in the other direction.  The weight of expectations can create a lot of fatigue by midseason -- let alone in the playoffs.  However, again, SJF has performed well so far.  I just think Hobart has performed slightly better down the stretch with, what others have characterized as, a good but not great team.

[Jonny Utah]

Im still just basing a lot of what SJF has done this year on what happened last year.  They still did not lose that many players, and except for the Hartwick game has had a similar season so far I would say......

See, though, I would've given that same analysis to Union in 2006 since they had the crux of their team from 2005 back after the 10-0 (11-1 including playoffs) season.  Yet, different years bring different results, attitudes, competition and scenarios.  I think if Union/SJF were played in 2005 (against SJF's 2006 players), the result would have been much closer if not in the other direction.  The weight of expectations can create a lot of fatigue by midseason -- let alone in the playoffs.  However, again, SJF has performed well so far.  I just think Hobart has performed slightly better down the stretch with, what others have characterized as, a good but not great team.

Again Im not sure exactly who SJF has brought back this year, but I am pretty sure I remember Union graduating 4 of 5 onlinemen from that 2005 team?  And from seeing them live, I thought Unions oline was what made that team.  Their WRs were good, but no better than SJFs or ICs top ones were, and their QB was as good as any QB I have seen at the d3 level.  Their RB was great, but broke a lot of tackles against an IC defense that did not tackle well and I wouldnt see him doing as well against other top east teams.

That being said, I would say last years SJF team was way too big on defense to let what happen to IC happen to them from that 2005 Union team.  The 2005 Union team size was their only weakness on offense.

I have not seen Hobart at all except in a few pics...........

[Frank Rossi]

Im still just basing a lot of what SJF has done this year on what happened last year.  They still did not lose that many players, and except for the Hartwick game has had a similar season so far I would say......

See, though, I would've given that same analysis to Union in 2006 since they had the crux of their team from 2005 back after the 10-0 (11-1 including playoffs) season.  Yet, different years bring different results, attitudes, competition and scenarios.  I think if Union/SJF were played in 2005 (against SJF's 2006 players), the result would have been much closer if not in the other direction.  The weight of expectations can create a lot of fatigue by midseason -- let alone in the playoffs.  However, again, SJF has performed well so far.  I just think Hobart has performed slightly better down the stretch with, what others have characterized as, a good but not great team.

Again Im not sure exactly who SJF has brought back this year, but I am pretty sure I remember Union graduating 4 of 5 onlinemen from that 2005 team?  And from seeing them live, I thought Unions oline was what made that team.  Their WRs were good, but no better than SJFs or ICs top ones were, and their QB was as good as any QB I have seen at the d3 level.  Their RB was great, but broke a lot of tackles against an IC defense that did not tackle well and I wouldnt see him doing as well against other top east teams.

That being said, I would say last years SJF team was way too big on defense to let what happen to IC happen to them from that 2005 Union team.  The 2005 Union team size was their only weakness on offense.

I have not seen Hobart at all except in a few pics...........

For as good as Marotti was at QB, he'd be the first one to tell you that he had national-caliber receivers in Angiletta and Twitchell.  I wouldn't under-assess those two.  With Arcidiacono taking a lot of the pressure off the passing game, Union's sometimes out-sized O-Line was able to do a pretty good job at keeping away the pressure, although -- if the pressure broke through -- the D-Line of the other team didn't know where to commit because of the run/pass balance Union presented.  It was a pretty good machine when all put together, and I can really say that all parts of that machine were the keystones to that machine.  Final note is that Arcidiacono was hurt in the SJF game -- he shouldn't have played in the RPI game in the week before because he aggrivated his injury.  Would it have changed the game completely?  No, but it may have quelled the lopsidedness of it.  That's another reason why 2005 Union vs. 2006 SJF would have been a good matchup.

[Jonny Utah]

Im still just basing a lot of what SJF has done this year on what happened last year.  They still did not lose that many players, and except for the Hartwick game has had a similar season so far I would say......

See, though, I would've given that same analysis to Union in 2006 since they had the crux of their team from 2005 back after the 10-0 (11-1 including playoffs) season.  Yet, different years bring different results, attitudes, competition and scenarios.  I think if Union/SJF were played in 2005 (against SJF's 2006 players), the result would have been much closer if not in the other direction.  The weight of expectations can create a lot of fatigue by midseason -- let alone in the playoffs.  However, again, SJF has performed well so far.  I just think Hobart has performed slightly better down the stretch with, what others have characterized as, a good but not great team.

Again Im not sure exactly who SJF has brought back this year, but I am pretty sure I remember Union graduating 4 of 5 onlinemen from that 2005 team?  And from seeing them live, I thought Unions oline was what made that team.  Their WRs were good, but no better than SJFs or ICs top ones were, and their QB was as good as any QB I have seen at the d3 level.  Their RB was great, but broke a lot of tackles against an IC defense that did not tackle well and I wouldnt see him doing as well against other top east teams.

That being said, I would say last years SJF team was way too big on defense to let what happen to IC happen to them from that 2005 Union team.  The 2005 Union team size was their only weakness on offense.

I have not seen Hobart at all except in a few pics...........

For as good as Marotti was at QB, he'd be the first one to tell you that he had national-caliber receivers in Angiletta and Twitchell.  I wouldn't under-assess those two.  With Arcidiacono taking a lot of the pressure off the passing game, Union's sometimes out-sized O-Line was able to do a pretty good job at keeping away the pressure, although -- if the pressure broke through -- the D-Line of the other team didn't know where to commit because of the run/pass balance Union presented.  It was a pretty good machine when all put together, and I can really say that all parts of that machine were the keystones to that machine.  Final note is that Arcidiacono was hurt in the SJF game -- he shouldn't have played in the RPI game in the week before because he aggrivated his injury.  Would it have changed the game completely?  No, but it may have quelled the lopsidedness of it.  That's another reason why 2005 Union vs. 2006 SJF would have been a good matchup.

Yea Im not underassessing them.  I just thought they were even with ICs or SJFs top recievers over the same time period.  Although Ferenbach was clearly ahead of any reciever Ive seen in a long time (including maybe even Garcon).

[JT]

No love for the East in the ATN.

PC even gets the last word in in his own articles... look at the surprises/dissapointments section.

That's why I'm hyper-critical of backward tiebreaker systems, flawed SoS calculations and systems, weird bracketing and poor officiating. 

All DIII ECAC and NCAC football officials suck.  Its science.

[Frank Rossi]

No love for the East in the ATN.

PC even gets the last word in in his own articles... look at the surprises/dissapointments section.

That's why I'm hyper-critical of backward tiebreaker systems, flawed SoS calculations and systems, weird bracketing and poor officiating. 

All DIII ECAC and NCAC football officials suck.  Its science.

ECAC was about as bad as I've seen this year, JT.  They had several instances of mis-spotting the ball in Union games this year.  That's about as basic as it gets.

[dewcrew88]

It's called exaggerating and hoping you don't get called on it. We never said everyone was in love, and that's what I answered. You snapped back with a smart-ass post and I called you on that, too. Let's not make stuff up, alright?

Zing....

Zing doesn't apply here since kicking and screaming appeared to be involved and because hyperbole is exaggeration for the purpose of colorable reading, not "mak[ing]...up" something, Mr. Saratogian.

Thanks for the lesson, FR.

[res ipsa loquitur]

Oooooooo.  Barry Barry. Quite contrary.

Bonds is no longer in "the clear," but is under indictment.

Makes you wonder what the SF Giants knew?


I am stoked about SJF week.  Was hoping for this match-up for a while. Should be fun.  Except for the possible necessity of a snow-suit that is..........

[Frank Rossi]

It's called exaggerating and hoping you don't get called on it. We never said everyone was in love, and that's what I answered. You snapped back with a smart-ass post and I called you on that, too. Let's not make stuff up, alright?

Zing....

Zing doesn't apply here since kicking and screaming appeared to be involved and because hyperbole is exaggeration for the purpose of colorable reading, not "mak[ing]...up" something, Mr. Saratogian.

Thanks for the lesson, FR.

Well, if you feel Pat's right and that I wrote stuff in that first post that is wrong, aside from opinion and the hyperbolization in the first line, then I'm happy to hear it.

[Frank Rossi]

Oooooooo.  Barry Barry. Quite contrary.

Bonds is no longer in "the clear," but is under indictment.

Makes you wonder what the SF Giants knew?


I am stoked about SJF week.  Was hoping for this match-up for a while. Should be fun.  Except for the possible necessity of a snow-suit that is..........

I think I can sum up this story very simply:

*

[res ipsa loquitur]

Yes, well done. 

Its no longer 61*, its 700 some odd*

[union89]

Am I the only one that loves having Mt. Union in the east?  And I always loved when the D1 basketball tournement had wierd matchups in any round.  It makes it fun I think.

Bottom line is that we have seen possibly the best regular season in the history of college football at any level with Mt. Union this year.  And now for the next four weeks us fans get to see what eastern d3 football is all about.  The ghosts of the 2003 RPI team,  the 1991, 1988 and 1979 Ithaca teams, the Rowan teams, and 1983 and 1989 Union teams are all excited to see what happens the next few weeks.

Go Bombers, and bring it on Mt. Union......bring it on......

Agreed and well put.....