FB: Liberty League

[union89]

In the interest of good health and prolonging life.
Dallas Mavericks Dancers

Anyone know the exact time when the LLPP 'Perv-Torch' was passed from Garnet to KS....

+1K for that link KS

[Knightstalker]

KS believes that Garnet had firewall issues so KS has been posting hot chicks.

[Frank Rossi]

Well, the Mitchell Report is out...and now I sit here saying to myself, "OK, NOW WHAT?!"

I mean, all these active players can't be suspended without actual drug tests.  The former players will possibly, but not definitely be affected in their run toward Cooperstown.  There's still trouble accurately testing for all types of performance-enhancing drugs, a term that still has no really concrete definition.  All we have is a stigma attaching to a group of players which is selective and not all-inclusive at the end of the day -- but a stigma applied to many isn't such a horrible stigma.

Unfortunately, I think the Mitchell Report will cause more muddle than solutions.  I was hoping for something more, I guess, and I'm a little disappointed by the reality now that the shoe has dropped.

It would be tough since it is an "independent" investigation, although it probably has turned up some "conpiracy to commit drug violation" offenses with the canceled checks and phone records. 

Im sure the possession and steroid use charges can and will be thrown out (as they are/were in the Bonds case)

But the old drug buy/conspiracy stuff would be the only thing the players would have to worry about.

Most of the players implicated have no history really (at least publicly known history) that could lead to anything more than slaps on the wrist for the "crimes" they alledgedly committed --

What was Vicks history of dog crimes before he went to jail for 2 years?

My point being is that signed checks to buy illegal drugs might violate federal drug laws and it seems that there might be more that enough proof (signed checks right?) to get these guys.  Im not saying thats anyones intent in this either, just speculation.

Find me an attorney general or district attorney that's going to even want to touch this one.  Look at the BALCO fiasco already -- and many of these players committed their "crime" many years ago -- reconstructing this would be virtually impossible beyond the conjecture and loose evidence policies the Mitchell Report contains versus what's necessary in a court of law.

[JQV]

Find me an attorney general or district attorney that's going to even want to touch this one.  Look at the BALCO fiasco already -- and many of these players committed their "crime" many years ago -- reconstructing this would be virtually impossible beyond the conjecture and loose evidence policies the Mitchell Report contains versus what's necessary in a court of law.

Pre-Duke Lax, I could see a few ambitious DAs/AUSAs taking a swing and a big indictment/information.  Splash news on the day of the filing then 32nd page when charges dropped.  After the (much deserved) bar discipline in NC, I think a lot of the limelight seekers have gotten gunshy.

[Frank Rossi]

And what does this report accomplish?

I think the report accomplishes a few things.

First, it opens the door for MLB to take further punitive action.  The defense all along has been, we aren't going to punish anyone over speculation.  Now that they have something of an independent analysis pointing the finger, they can take the next step and start re-writing history.  Selig is a moron though, so nothing may come of this.

Second, it insulates MLB from accusations that they just looked the other way. 

Third, it erases any grounds the Union has to argue against more testing.  Donald Fehr is a moron but even he knows he can't go to the mattresses over that issue now and come out a winner.

KS, I think you are seeing a lot of Yankees on the list because the Yankees were signing those players when they hit the backside of their careers.  The more old stars you sign, the more likely you are to hit on a steroid user.

Max, you are way out of line.  Scuffing the ball and juicing are totally different things.

Jose, I think you're too close to the MLB and are losing some reality perspective on this one.  Here are the problems you're missing:

1) You're a lawyer who knows that you can't suddenly up penalties for actions from years or over a decade ago.  The report does nothing but allow the MLB to impose the first-level penalty on the players named, assuming they even play the game anymore.  The MLBPA will not allow something beyond that to occur.  Period.

2) What did we learn from this report that we didn't already know?  The 400+ page Report is nothing but a reiteration of what we knew for years, except with some "pretty pictures" in the form of real names.  Great.  Now what?  Nobody I've spoken with since this broke yesterday has had any clue what this Report has added to the knowledge base of the country.  All people are doing is spitting out names and the "should've known X was using them."  Did we really need that?

3) MLB's response through Selig is unbelievably weak.  OK, so we're going to stop the 24-hour warning for testing.  Ummm, you needed a 400+ page report to tell you that was a good policy?!  If Selig was a true leader and commissioner, then he would've spoken to the MLBPA reps long before the idea of having Mitchell do what he did and say, "Either we're going to be embarassing a nice percentage of your membership by exposing names and the whole mess, or we're going to stop playing games with these drug tests.  No compromise on this one."  His response proves to me and many others that MLB is powerless in terms of penalizing the players retrospectively -- it doesn't have the resources or motivation to make a bigger statement because, in earnest, the Report makes the top of MLB look like part of the problem over the last two decades.

4) Selig's pandering to Congress on this issue by naming Mitchell to investigate should be grounds for Selig's termination as Commissioner.  THERE WAS NO REASON TO CREATE A REPORT OF THIS NATURE.  NONE.  Congress would have been ultimately powerless to try to police a sport -- Congress can't run itself, and the American public would've lynched Congressmen for even attempting to go beyond a couple media-circus hearings (see McGwire and Palmiero).  He allowed dirty laundry not only to be aired, but to be rubbed in the faces of fans, etc.  And what will the net result be?  Remember the strike in the early 90s?  Remember the fan response after?  This will have a less-pronounced effect, but it will affect attendance and viewership just as MLB was catching the NFL in several key categories.  So, MLB can now slap the wrists of players, look like a bunch of jackasses who made a policy change about 10 years too late and make fans have to second guess the sport as a whole right now.  Great result...all because Selig pandered to Congress.

Yes, remember this is Bud Selig, the same man who had no backup plan for a tie in an All-Star Game not that long ago.  I don't fault Mitchell -- he did his job.  The results of this, though, were highly avoidable before Mitchell was even contacted to begin his work.

[union89]

Uh, oh......are our two lawyers (Frank & Jose) getting ready to get into a battle about the size of their Johnson's??

[Jonny Utah]

Well, the Mitchell Report is out...and now I sit here saying to myself, "OK, NOW WHAT?!"

I mean, all these active players can't be suspended without actual drug tests.  The former players will possibly, but not definitely be affected in their run toward Cooperstown.  There's still trouble accurately testing for all types of performance-enhancing drugs, a term that still has no really concrete definition.  All we have is a stigma attaching to a group of players which is selective and not all-inclusive at the end of the day -- but a stigma applied to many isn't such a horrible stigma.

Unfortunately, I think the Mitchell Report will cause more muddle than solutions.  I was hoping for something more, I guess, and I'm a little disappointed by the reality now that the shoe has dropped.

It would be tough since it is an "independent" investigation, although it probably has turned up some "conpiracy to commit drug violation" offenses with the canceled checks and phone records. 

Im sure the possession and steroid use charges can and will be thrown out (as they are/were in the Bonds case)

But the old drug buy/conspiracy stuff would be the only thing the players would have to worry about.

Most of the players implicated have no history really (at least publicly known history) that could lead to anything more than slaps on the wrist for the "crimes" they alledgedly committed --

What was Vicks history of dog crimes before he went to jail for 2 years?

My point being is that signed checks to buy illegal drugs might violate federal drug laws and it seems that there might be more that enough proof (signed checks right?) to get these guys.  Im not saying thats anyones intent in this either, just speculation.

Find me an attorney general or district attorney that's going to even want to touch this one.  Look at the BALCO fiasco already -- and many of these players committed their "crime" many years ago -- reconstructing this would be virtually impossible beyond the conjecture and loose evidence policies the Mitchell Report contains versus what's necessary in a court of law.

You are right in terms that an investigation would have to start now (if there isn't one already) and would need to focus on they seller/distributer rather than the buyers.  I could see players being witnesses (as bonds was) however in a future sting involving the makers and distributors of these drug rings.  And you would have to think that some of these illegal drug connections are still happening with the same people right?


But lets look at what might be necessary in a court of law....

Lets say the feds bust a steroid/HGH factory now and in that factory is evidence that drugs were sold and bought by players/trainers.  Surely the trainers (distribution) could still be liable for federal drug charges, even if they were made years ago. And the Mitchell report does have some of that evidence that these drugs were bought...

[maxpower]

What good will ANY of this do? MOVE ON.

[Frank Rossi]

What good will ANY of this do? MOVE ON.

Agreed, Max.  By the way, can I borrow some HGH from you?

[Tags]

Tags found this an interesting tidbit

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/104029/Top-Earning-World-Leaders

Anyone want in as President of Boliva?

[maxpower]

What good will ANY of this do? MOVE ON.

Agreed, Max.  By the way, can I borrow some HGH from you?

No problem, I got some from Jose who says he got it from A-Rod.


By the way, is there a more pathetic athlete than Jose Canseco right now? I mean, he's even riding the coattails of the Mitchell investigation...

[Jonny Utah]

What good will ANY of this do? MOVE ON.

What, investigate people that make and distribute illegal drugs?

[maxpower]

Sorry, that was pretty reactionary. I guess investigating the sellers would be a good thing. Apologetic +k.

[Jonny Utah]

Anyone see the clear coaching debacle in the d2 championship game?

Heres Valdosta state driving inside the 10 yard line with over 1:30 left in the game down by 2 points.  NW Mizz St has 2 timeouts and dont call any as Valdosta calls 3 more running plays to score a TD and go up by 5 points with less than 30 seconds left!

Why in the hell didnt the NWMS coach use a timeout!  He could have had the ball after the TD with probably over a minute left if he had called both.

[lewdogg11]

Not that I think they are doing a bad job at all, because I think they are doing a fine job, but do you think ESPN is trying to make a statement having a woman announce the Stagg Bowl EVERY YEAR, as if to say it shouldn't be taken too seriously???