FB: Liberty League

[JQV]

pbr is headed to the georgia/florida game w/ coworkers who go every year sometime in the future as well as a game at baton rouge is a must on a sat. night at some point in pbr's life.

You won't be disappointed at either gathering.  Hard to admit but I think LSU is probably more fun.  It is insane there.

[union89]

RE: Manny

First off Manny is one of the top 3 hitters in all of baseball when he feels like playing.

The week before the trade, Manny told any teammate that would listen to him that he was very upset with Sox management and would be taking the next week and a half off, returning for the Royals series which begins tonight.  Manny had plans of blaming his 'phantom' left knee injury for the 10 day absence.  Players alerted Epstien of Manny's plan and Theo immediately ordered MRI's on BOTH of Manny's knees so Ramirez couldn't twist his story once again and claim the wrong knee was examined.  The MRI's came back clean and Manny was ordered back to the lineup without any more discussion about the knees.

The above story should tell us all a good deal about what both his teammates and upper management think about that narcissistic tool.

MaxPower, get a clue regarding your race driven comments.....Manny's demise in Boston had ZERO to do with race.  Read up on what Kevin Garnett thought about Boston prior to his arrival, then his love of the city after the first month here.

Manny tossed a 64 year old employee to the ground because the guy couldn't get Manny about 15 tickets to the next days game......Max, did Manny throw the guy to the ground because he felt racially prosecuted??

[Jonny Utah]

what about Damon, Lowe, Pedro... they notoriusly throw guys under the bus when they leave

How did they throw any of these guys under the bus?  I mean, Damon said he would never play for the yankees, and then he did, so I can see booing him.

Pedro is still loved in Boston and would he have produced WS numbers at this point in his career?  The sox didnt want to sign him to big money and long years because of the injury thing.  And what do ya know, here is is hurt all the time again.  And from what I recall, the mets were going to outbid the sox up to a point anyway.

Lowe Im not so sure of.  I cant rememeber how much money he wanted.  But I think a lot of that stuff came down to the team having a lot of A+ players at the end of their contracts.  You cant give everyone what they want right?

Pedro is still loved by the fans but when he signed with the Mets a large number of fans wanted an explanation and the owners/gm went on record as saying they didnt like his prima donna attitude about how he handled himself. He would leave games when he was taken out, wouldnt come til game time on days that were his rest days. He had his own routine that he used to prepare himself to pitch and they didnt like it. Now the fans that still love him didnt care how he prepared himself as long as he performed (and lets face it, to pitch the way he did IN THE ERA he did it in is nothing short of amazing!).

Lowe they stated character concerns (later learned it was an affair [wow a mlb player cheats on his wife!]) and that he wasnt a big game guy (all he did was become the 1st pitcher in mlb history to get the decision in 3 straight series in 04).

Damon they threw his "never play for the Yankees" right in his face the second he signed.

You didnt mention Nomar but they were slandering him before the bus even picked him up to take him to Chicago. Calling him soft, a bad teammate. That kind of thing.

Now, as you mentioned, EVERY one of these decisions has proven to be the right move. Which proves that they are knowledgable baseball fans. So if you are good and you know it, why spit on a mans grave? Say you appreciate everything they did while they were in your city but that you feel it is in the best interest of the organization to go seperate ways with said players. Then let the time that you mentioned heal the wound, because with winning that 2nd WS you proved that you know how to put a ball club together!

Manny noticed these things, sensed that he wasnt going to be brought back in 09' and became paranoid about what the fans were going to think of him, thus his comments towards the owners. Kind of hard to not say the guy has a point. Now, is the contract most of it? Absolutely, but the guy didnt want to be slandered.

His 1st quote on joining the Dodgers:

"I want to say something from the bottom of my heart. Thank you to all the fans in Boston, this had nothing to do with you, you were all great and I loved playing for you"

or something to that extent.

The Sox owners/management have been amazing and Reno wants to be carfeful about criticizing the people who brought a WS title to Boston in his lifetime......but just try to be a little more classy!

Reno all these things you say are true, but did the red sox acutally do any of this stuff, or was it just the papers leaking a lot of it?  

And I think there was a 99% chance (barring an injury) that the sox would have at least picked up the one option for one year.  I can understand how Manny didnt want that, so he pulled these latest tactics to get out of here.

I think the Lowe stuff was his drinking more than the affairs (that stuff happened after he went to LA I think).

And badmouth them or not, dont you think the fans have a right to know some things about why these players werent signed?  What if we never know that Manny threw an old man to the plate, or if the sox covered for manny when he refused to play.  I think we have a right to know the truth about these players and make our decisions on those truths

[Jonny Utah]

RE: Manny

First off Manny is one of the top 3 hitters in all of baseball when he feels like playing.

The week before the trade, Manny told any teammate that would listen to him that he was very upset with Sox management and would be taking the next week and a half off, returning for the Royals series which begins tonight.  Manny had plans of blaming his 'phantom' left knee injury for the 10 day absence.  Players alerted Epstien of Manny's plan and Theo immediately ordered MRI's on BOTH of Manny's knees so Ramirez couldn't twist his story once again and claim the wrong knee was examined.  The MRI's came back clean and Manny was ordered back to the lineup without any more discussion about the knees.

The above story should tell us all a good deal about what both his teammates and upper management think about that narcissistic tool.

MaxPower, get a clue regarding your race driven comments.....Manny's demise in Boston had ZERO to do with race.  Read up on what Kevin Garnett thought about Boston prior to his arrival, then his love of the city after the first month here.

Manny tossed a 64 year old employee to the ground because the guy couldn't get Manny about 15 tickets to the next days game......Max, did Manny throw the guy to the ground because he felt racially prosecuted??

The only issue I have with race or culture in this situation is the fact that Manny really did not speak English that well and that put him at a disadvantage when speaking to the media and people in general. 

[maxpower]

You guys, stop taking this race thing out of context, what I said was that most of these character-bashing articles that come out in newspapers are about non-white players. I never said that Manny himself was being targeted by the fans or owners, or even most of the media because of his race. City of Boston, blah blah blah, although i've heard there are plenty of opposite stories to go in the face of the kevin garnett one. Like the Mo Vaughn story?

But again, i believe my quote was "most of these articles are about non-white players", that's all, it didn't go beyond that.

By the way, Manny will never live up to A-Rod as a teammate. Just the other day he took a couple hours and brought a whole bunch of sick kids to a strip club in Toronto, then they all went swimming in Madonna's pool.

[union89]

RE: Manny

First off Manny is one of the top 3 hitters in all of baseball when he feels like playing.

The week before the trade, Manny told any teammate that would listen to him that he was very upset with Sox management and would be taking the next week and a half off, returning for the Royals series which begins tonight.  Manny had plans of blaming his 'phantom' left knee injury for the 10 day absence.  Players alerted Epstien of Manny's plan and Theo immediately ordered MRI's on BOTH of Manny's knees so Ramirez couldn't twist his story once again and claim the wrong knee was examined.  The MRI's came back clean and Manny was ordered back to the lineup without any more discussion about the knees.

The above story should tell us all a good deal about what both his teammates and upper management think about that narcissistic tool.

MaxPower, get a clue regarding your race driven comments.....Manny's demise in Boston had ZERO to do with race.  Read up on what Kevin Garnett thought about Boston prior to his arrival, then his love of the city after the first month here.

Manny tossed a 64 year old employee to the ground because the guy couldn't get Manny about 15 tickets to the next days game......Max, did Manny throw the guy to the ground because he felt racially prosecuted??

The only issue I have with race or culture in this situation is the fact that Manny really did not speak English that well and that put him at a disadvantage when speaking to the media and people in general. 

I have no problem with Manny not speaking with the media....as a Sox fan, I actually welcomed it.  I can't think of one instance when the language barrier caused Manny to look bad....Manny made Manny look bad.

[Jonny Utah]

You guys, stop taking this race thing out of context, what I said was that most of these character-bashing articles that come out in newspapers are about non-white players. I never said that Manny himself was being targeted by the fans or owners, or even most of the media because of his race. City of Boston, blah blah blah, although i've heard there are plenty of opposite stories to go in the face of the kevin garnett one. Like the Mo Vaughn story?

But again, i believe my quote was "most of these articles are about non-white players", that's all, it didn't go beyond that.

By the way, Manny will never live up to A-Rod as a teammate. Just the other day he took a couple hours and brought a whole bunch of sick kids to a strip club in Toronto, then they all went swimming in Madonna's pool.

Yea I understand where you were comming from.  But what were the Kevin Garnett and Mo Vaughn stories?

[maxpower]

U89 brought up Kevin Garnett being wary of Boston because of it's reputation, but loving it. I thought I heard something about Mo Vaughn saying he felt very prejudiced against there or something.... obviously I don't know exactly what.

[Senor RedTackle]

Hey gro,

Isn't the league draft tomorrow?

No it's set for 9pm wednesday 8/20 unless I get some feedback otherwise.  Regulator and one other person from last year hasn't signed up, but I'm too lazy to figure out who that one person is.

the "other" person is RT

['gro]

Well Well Well, if you 2 deadbeats get signed up we'll be ready to go... unless you're chicken.


_butthead

[labart96]

Hey gro,

Isn't the league draft tomorrow?

No it's set for 9pm wednesday 8/20 unless I get some feedback otherwise.  Regulator and one other person from last year hasn't signed up, but I'm too lazy to figure out who that one person is.

the "other" person is RT

Any updates from RT and Frank the Tank re: the LLPP radio show?

[lewdogg11]

Just a couple comments from all of this nonsense i'm reading:

1.  Gerry Callahan - I can't say I always have agreed with the man, and i can't say I even like the man.  He sometimes writes and says things for the sole purpose of controversy to make his talk show more entertaining and his goal in life is to piss people off so they call in and argue and people listen.  I think this is another example.  Possibly not completely off base, but a little bit exagerated.

2.  I will always love Manny.  I think most Sox fans will always love Manny.  I didn't love his lack of hustle at times.  i didn't love his bad attitude which showed up from time to time.  But as an athlete, i loved him.  But at this point, i agree, it was time for him to go.  And i'm glad to see him in LA and not in f'ing NY.  Atleast LA is a land for Red Sox rejects...

3.  Derek Lowe?  Why would the Red Sox re-sign Derek Lowe?  We loved him when he was here, but he could never be counted on, and he had 'The Derek Lowe' face.  Was sad to see him go, but it was sad to see Bronson Arroyo go too. 

4.  Pedro is one of my favorite players of all-time, but the Red Sox made the right move in not paying him a jillion dollars.  Let's face it, finally the Red Sox mgmt is being wise with their money.  A little out of the Patriots book me thinks...

5.  All of this racism talk is stupid.  Roger Clemens is a scumbag.  Barry Bonds is a scumbag.  Mark Maguire is a scumbag.  Race means nothing.  However, baseball is overwhelmingly saturated with foreign players so when a white guy gets into trouble it's expected, but when a Spanish player gets into trouble its racist.  Give me a f'ing break.  Everyone is on an even playing field...minus the extra muscle in the calf...

6.  Nomar...he was poison...There are no Red Sox players that were sad to see Nomar the teammate go...Nomar the ballplayer?  Sure...But not Nomar the teammate.  And i think this situation is very similar.

I don't even know what i just typed.  My head hurts.  Need to poop.  Need to put pants on.

[union89]

Personally, U89 would suggest pooping prior to putting pants on, but the decision is yours.

Manny could hit the heck out of a baseball, but couldn't catch one and could give a rats behind about his teammates and the fans.....good ridance.

[Jonny Utah]

Personally, U89 would suggest pooping prior to putting pants on, but the decision is yours.

Manny could hit the heck out of a baseball, but couldn't catch one and could give a rats behind about his teammates and the fans.....good ridance.

U89,

we are going to have to come up with a trophy name for the upcomning Ithaca/Union series.  And of course a wager is going to be a yearly event as well.

[Reno Hightower]

what about Damon, Lowe, Pedro... they notoriusly throw guys under the bus when they leave

How did they throw any of these guys under the bus?  I mean, Damon said he would never play for the yankees, and then he did, so I can see booing him.

Pedro is still loved in Boston and would he have produced WS numbers at this point in his career?  The sox didnt want to sign him to big money and long years because of the injury thing.  And what do ya know, here is is hurt all the time again.  And from what I recall, the mets were going to outbid the sox up to a point anyway.

Lowe Im not so sure of.  I cant rememeber how much money he wanted.  But I think a lot of that stuff came down to the team having a lot of A+ players at the end of their contracts.  You cant give everyone what they want right?

Pedro is still loved by the fans but when he signed with the Mets a large number of fans wanted an explanation and the owners/gm went on record as saying they didnt like his prima donna attitude about how he handled himself. He would leave games when he was taken out, wouldnt come til game time on days that were his rest days. He had his own routine that he used to prepare himself to pitch and they didnt like it. Now the fans that still love him didnt care how he prepared himself as long as he performed (and lets face it, to pitch the way he did IN THE ERA he did it in is nothing short of amazing!).

Lowe they stated character concerns (later learned it was an affair [wow a mlb player cheats on his wife!]) and that he wasnt a big game guy (all he did was become the 1st pitcher in mlb history to get the decision in 3 straight series in 04).

Damon they threw his "never play for the Yankees" right in his face the second he signed.

You didnt mention Nomar but they were slandering him before the bus even picked him up to take him to Chicago. Calling him soft, a bad teammate. That kind of thing.

Now, as you mentioned, EVERY one of these decisions has proven to be the right move. Which proves that they are knowledgable baseball fans. So if you are good and you know it, why spit on a mans grave? Say you appreciate everything they did while they were in your city but that you feel it is in the best interest of the organization to go seperate ways with said players. Then let the time that you mentioned heal the wound, because with winning that 2nd WS you proved that you know how to put a ball club together!

Manny noticed these things, sensed that he wasnt going to be brought back in 09' and became paranoid about what the fans were going to think of him, thus his comments towards the owners. Kind of hard to not say the guy has a point. Now, is the contract most of it? Absolutely, but the guy didnt want to be slandered.

His 1st quote on joining the Dodgers:

"I want to say something from the bottom of my heart. Thank you to all the fans in Boston, this had nothing to do with you, you were all great and I loved playing for you"

or something to that extent.

The Sox owners/management have been amazing and Reno wants to be carfeful about criticizing the people who brought a WS title to Boston in his lifetime......but just try to be a little more classy!

Reno all these things you say are true, but did the red sox acutally do any of this stuff, or was it just the papers leaking a lot of it?  

And I think there was a 99% chance (barring an injury) that the sox would have at least picked up the one option for one year.  I can understand how Manny didnt want that, so he pulled these latest tactics to get out of here.

I think the Lowe stuff was his drinking more than the affairs (that stuff happened after he went to LA I think).

And badmouth them or not, dont you think the fans have a right to know some things about why these players werent signed?  What if we never know that Manny threw an old man to the plate, or if the sox covered for manny when he refused to play.  I think we have a right to know the truth about these players and make our decisions on those truths

They actually said the things, in defense of their trades/letting the players walk in FA.

Thats an interesting way of looking at it that I never thought of. In the end, I do not know if we have the right to be honest with you. It is our decision whether we decide to purchase tickets to the game and merchandise. If I dont like that they let those players go and dont understand why they did it, and I dont want to do those things, I dont have to. Bottom line-I love the Sox and Im going no matter what! I would guess that 99.99999% of Sox fans are the same way. So with that being the case, why not just run the organization in a classy way? Add classy to the fact that they clearly make great baseball decisions (as someone mentions later in the posts, none of these players they have let go/trashed has been missed.....baseball playing wise) and  you have the perfect storm. If you know you are right in what you did, you do not owe anything to anybody and your correctness with show itself in the future (as it has with many of these players the Sox let go) and the fans will give you carte blanche. A perfect example of this is Manny....I LOVE Manny, probably my all-time favorite Red Sox but when they made the trade I didnt get mad or upset with the organization at all. Do I wish it had worked out and the guy could have retired a Sox? Of course, I think we all do. Do I notice that they traded a 36 year old declining player for a 29 year old player who could improve greatly in the Sox lineup and at Fenway, I sure do!

The 2 WS they put up makes me trust them. And if I didnt know that Pedro was a prima donna, Lowe an alcoholic, Nomar a winy baby and Manny well Manny I would be in the same spot.......Rooting for the best team in baseball this millenium!