FB: Liberty League

[labart96]

I mean, they are getting more votes than RPI and Hobart COMBINED!

re: Curry.  TGP noticed that too. 

Very questionable, but polls are subjective and that's supposed to be the "fun" of it.  Unlike other things on the LLPP, polling is not science.

[Pat Coleman]

I mean, they are getting more votes than RPI and Hobart COMBINED!

Probably a remnant of having more playoff wins than the two combined last season. Makes it a little easier to believe in them. I notice they're not really climbing in the poll, though.

[labart96]

I mean, they are getting more votes than RPI and Hobart COMBINED!

Probably a remnant of having more playoff wins than the two combined last season. Makes it a little easier to believe in them. I notice they're not really climbing in the poll, though.

Completely luck of the draw IMO, but point taken.  The LL certainly didn't do itself any favors last year by tanking (although a 3 pt loss in RPI's case isn't really a tank IMO) in all the playoff games (NCAA and ECAC) they appeared in. 

If Curry had ended up with TCNJ or SJF like RPI and Hobart did, respectively, they would have lost in the first round (Curry did lose in the next round to SJF by 14 more points than Hobart did, but the end result was the same) too.

['gro]

In the LLPP, the Curry football team will from now on be referred to as "Dem Spicy Boyz"

Gro hath spoken.



_{2008 Team Photo}

[dlippiel]

I mean, other than a win against a Hartwick team who should not have sniffed the playoffs, Curry can't compete outside of their conference. 

Except that was the most recent Curry playoff trip, so it's not easily discounted.

I TOTALLY understand that 100%.  I think Curry DOES deserve some votes.  But, to put it into perspective, the closest thing we can get to apples to apples this year is:(and I HATE when people do this)

Curry 28 Worcester St 21 OT
WPI 31 Worcester St 10
RPI 35 WPI 21

I mean, they are getting more votes than RPI and Hobart COMBINED!

lewdogg I think this point of yours says it all. Often times comparing results of games played doesen't always prove to be very effective. This time it is. Until Curry beats someone, anyone, other than a Hartwick team with no defense (gave up what 70 to Utica last year?) they should not be put into the same category as LL, E8, or NJAC teams. They deserve some votes but every year we have the same debate and every year except for one the debate ends with a loss by the NEFC power.

[union89]

I mean, other than a win against a Hartwick team who should not have sniffed the playoffs, Curry can't compete outside of their conference. 

Except that was the most recent Curry playoff trip, so it's not easily discounted.

I TOTALLY understand that 100%.  I think Curry DOES deserve some votes.  But, to put it into perspective, the closest thing we can get to apples to apples this year is:(and I HATE when people do this)

Curry 28 Worcester St 21 OT
WPI 31 Worcester St 10
RPI 35 WPI 21

I mean, they are getting more votes than RPI and Hobart COMBINED!

lewdogg I think this point of yours says it all. Often times comparing results of games played doesen't always prove to be very effective. This time it is. Until Curry beats someone, anyone, other than a Hartwick team with no defense (gave up what 70 to Utica last year?) they should not be put into the same category as LL, E8, or NJAC teams. They deserve some votes but every year we have the same debate and every year except for one the debate ends with a loss by the NEFC power.

We have habitually hammered the NEFC for having never won an NCAA game.  Regardless of who they beat last year, they deserve credit for the win.  Hartwick qualified for the tournament out of the E8 which is pretty impressive in any year....U89 hated to do it, but last year he had to go into the NEFCPP and congratulate them for getting the monkey off their backs.

Many of us said, before we can give the NEFC any respect, they must win an NCAA 1st Round game....well they did it and we should not be allowed to now put an '*' next to it...

[lewdogg11]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

[union89]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

....+1....fantastic

U89 wasn't even talking about polls (sorry Utah) or even 'Dem Spicy Boyz'....U89 was simply stating that the NEFC finally has an NCAA win and we shouldn't diminish it by stating, 'Ya, but it was only Hartwick'.

By the way, where has that dood from the NEFC been who REAAAAAALY hates 'Sully'??

[Jonny Utah]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

JU has never laughed so ****ing hard at a post before.  I seriously almost just **** my pants.

+K for the rest of the year LD.

[labart96]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

Best.  Post.  Ever.

[Jonny Utah]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

....+1....fantastic

U89 wasn't even talking about polls (sorry Utah) or even 'Dem Spicy Boyz'....U89 was simply stating that the NEFC finally has an NCAA win and we shouldn't diminish it by stating, 'Ya, but it was only Hartwick'.

By the way, where has that dood from the NEFC been who REAAAAAALY hates 'Sully'??

The NEFC has had some classics.  I dont know if anyone remembers the name "lancerfan".  He and I used to battle about a bunch of crazy crap.  And his posts were literally like the one LD just put up there.  

[lewdogg11]

I'm pretty sure this video is going to give Mr. T's 'Treat your mama right' video a run for it's money...

http://2nuff.multiply.com/video/item/8/Dont_Bite_Your_Friends_-_Yo_Gabba_Gabba

[PBR...]

So that proves 'Dem Spicy Boyz' were better than Hartwick last year.  Ok, i'll give em that.  But isn't a poll a way to measure who you think is better?  This means a whole bunch of pollsters actually think Curry is better than RPI and Hobart.  Are they just going off of last year's playoff results or is there more to it?

I mean, look at the NEFC board.  Those guys don't even know how to post.  Here is my version of an NEFC post.

*******************************************************************************************
West Beverly over Beverly 27-7 12 people there no one will watch it 12-9 3 OT
Dracut over Lowell 21-0 yes this was an actual score from last week 34-16 Lamp
Endicott lost to Salve Regina in the rain 20-17 but a girl streaked the field naked 23-18
Gro's fantasy team over U89's wet fantasy 127-0 U89 likes to eat terds for breakfast
Jonny Utah isn't really Keanu Reaves 11-8 but he has a poster of Gary Busey naked
No one usually reads this far 45-6 loud noises 98-7 Miss Lippy's car is green
The Goonies isn't fully appreciated by the 67-65 youth of today 44-43 Bill likes to drink soda
One Time I saw Framingham St 25-22 Regulator pee in Gro's closet 19-16

BOL!! well done LD!!! +k

[Frank Rossi]

I think the Curry vote, if it's being related to a win vs. an E8 team in the playoffs last year, is actually a little evidence of an issue Guru and I debated recently:  overinflation of the E8 in conference ranking (and thus, team ranking) methodlogies.

Here's my issue:  where's the beef in the E8 that makes it such a high-rated conference compared to others this year, especially now that games have been played.  Look at the results related to the teams that are supposedly the cream of the league:

Ithaca:  Struggle vs. Lycoming (2-1), 38-28 win vs. King's (1-2), terrible defense vs. Hartwick (69-42 score) (1-1), bad loss vs. SJF (37-6) (3-1)

SJF:  Loss vs. MUC (4-0), win vs. Buff St. (0-3), close win vs. ROC (1-2), big win vs. Ithaca (3-1)

Alfred: Loss vs. Ursinus (2-1), close win vs. FDU-Florham (2-1), win vs. SLU (0-4), close win vs. Springfield (1-2)

Hartwick: win vs. WNEC (0-4), loss vs. Ithaca (3-1) -- averging 53 PPG on defense

Springfield: win vs. Fitchburg St. (1-3), loss vs. Union (1-2), loss vs. Alfred (3-1)

Here's my point:  with the exception of SJF, who I would say is a great team that is underperforming until the Ithaca game, the rest of the E8 is very inconsistent this year.  There are seven teams in the E8 -- how many of those teams are quality teams, though, this year?  

I'm not saying the LL is any better than the E8 this year -- so far, the LL hasn't proven this either.  My point is that I feel LD's point about Curry getting so much credit for a win vs. Hartwick assumes too much about Hartwick and assumes way too much about 2007 now that we've had four weeks of football to analyze, including several non-conference games.

So far in non-conference games:

the E8 has collectively gone 10-8.  
the LL has gone 10-10.
the NJAC has gone 4-4.
the MAC has gone 13-11.
the NEFC has gone 3-14/10-7 (13-21 total).

I agree the E8 is the class of the East, but when you assess the quality of the wins and the closeness of some of these games so far, the two extra wins (or three if we're going to toss out the MUC/SJF game) don't equate to such a huge dropoff in the ratings between the E8 and many of the conferences in the East.

And while I enjoyed seeing the Curry run last year, I have to agree with LD at this point that the justification of it being on the cusp of the Top 25 is a bit weak right now.

- Frank

[PBR...]

I think the Curry vote, if it's being related to a win vs. an E8 team in the playoffs last year, is actually a little evidence of an issue Guru and I debated recently:  overinflation of the E8 in conference ranking (and thus, team ranking) methodlogies.

Here's my issue:  where's the beef in the E8 that makes it such a high-rated conference compared to others this year, especially now that games have been played.  Look at the results related to the teams that are supposedly the cream of the league:

Ithaca:  Struggle vs. Lycoming (2-1), 38-28 win vs. King's (1-2), terrible defense vs. Hartwick (69-42 score) (1-1), bad loss vs. SJF (37-6) (3-1)

SJF:  Loss vs. MUC (4-0), win vs. Buff St. (0-3), close win vs. ROC (1-2), big win vs. Ithaca (3-1)

Alfred: Loss vs. Ursinus (2-1), close win vs. FDU-Florham (2-1), win vs. SLU (0-4), close win vs. Springfield (1-2)

Hartwick: win vs. WNEC (0-4), loss vs. Ithaca (3-1) -- averging 53 PPG on defense

Springfield: win vs. Fitchburg St. (1-3), loss vs. Union (1-2), loss vs. Alfred (3-1)

Here's my point:  with the exception of SJF, who I would say is a great team that is underperforming until the Ithaca game, the rest of the E8 is very inconsistent this year.  There are seven teams in the E8 -- how many of those teams are quality teams, though, this year?  

I'm not saying the LL is any better than the E8 this year -- so far, the LL hasn't proven this either.  My point is that I feel LD's point about Curry getting so much credit for a win vs. Hartwick assumes too much about Hartwick and assumes way too much about 2007 now that we've had four weeks of football to analyze, including several non-conference games.

So far in non-conference games:

the E8 has collectively gone 10-8.  
the LL has gone 10-10.
the NJAC has gone 4-4.
the MAC has gone 13-11.
the NEFC has gone 3-14/10-7 (13-21 total).

I agree the E8 is the class of the East, but when you assess the quality of the wins and the closeness of some of these games so far, the two extra wins (or three if we're going to toss out the MUC/SJF game) don't equate to such a huge dropoff in the ratings between the E8 and many of the conferences in the East.

And while I enjoyed seeing the Curry run last year, I have to agree with LD at this point that the justification of it being on the cusp of the Top 25 is a bit weak right now.

- Frank

good points frank, hadnt gone to the depth you have, well done. would like to hear pat's input as well to get some balance.