FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

I couldn't care less about ECAC games. They don't prove one thing to me. You never know who's coming to play and who's coming to mail it in.

I find it hard to believe that there are any teams that don't want to win as much as the next team, regardless of the stakes.

Oh well. It happens.

[Jonny Utah]

I couldn't care less about ECAC games. They don't prove one thing to me. You never know who's coming to play and who's coming to mail it in.

I find it hard to believe that there are any teams that don't want to win as much as the next team, regardless of the stakes.

I played in one in 1996 and it was a wierd expierence.  We started out 5-0 and really crushed teams right off the bat and were ranked I think in the top 5.  Then we got crushed by a better AIC team and ended up losing to Cortland and Buff St in two of the worst experiences I have ever had as a player.  Im not sure how much guys were up playing Worcester St. in the ECAC game but we had our starting QB out and a few olinemen out as well.  

Those loud mouth Worcester St punks talked the whole game.  It felt good after but there was a different feeling about that game like it didn't count or something. 

[redswarm81]

I couldn't care less about ECAC games. They don't prove one thing to me. You never know who's coming to play and who's coming to mail it in.

I find it hard to believe that there are any teams that don't want to win as much as the next team, regardless of the stakes.

Oh well. It happens.

It does?  How do we know that?  Is it in Austin Murphy's knew book?

[Pat Coleman]

Scroll up one post for an example.

[redswarm81]

Scroll up one post for an example.

One player admits he doesn't know how his team felt.  He admits he felt weird, he doesn't say anything like he didn't want to win.

Does that mean that there are teams that don't want to win as much as their opponents want to win?

[Frank Rossi]

Frank,

What would a Union victory over RPI mean?  Wouldn't it throw the LL into chaos in terms of playoff bids, with four teams struggling for an A and C slot?

Break it down.

Not really chaos, as RPI/Hobart will have probably the final say on the Pool A bid (a lot depends on Hobart-WPI this weekend).  RPI still controls its own destiny with a win or loss.  Hobart still controls its own destiny with a win.  WPI needs RPI to lose twice for the Pool A slot.  Union needs quite a bit of help in just three weeks -- so it's not likely that Union will win the LL.  However, stranger things have happened.  After this weekend, only one team will be competing for a Pool C slot, technically -- the winner of Hobart/WPI.  RPI would have to fall into a Pool C slot if a one-loss Hobart beat RPI on 11/8.

Note:  There cannot be a one-loss, three-way tie in the LL this year.

What exactly is the stranger thing that has happened than a 6-3 team making the playoffs with 2 conference losses?!?!?!?!?!

There are currently 48 zero- and one-loss teams in Division III.  Until we see a lot more carnage, I don't think the worst scenarios will need to be dealt with. 

Thats not the point. Nor was it yours. You are being WAY too optimistic about Union's chances at making the playoffs!!!!!! ECAC even at this point is a reach with so many 1 loss teams.....one can wish though, kudos for the optimism!

Reno - Honestly, you're a little out of line about why I stated what I did.  Until it's a mathematical or virtual impossibility, I'm obligated to explain the chances of each team when I open my mouth on here.  That was in no way an opinionated post -- Strange things happening isn't a reference to a Pool C bid -- if memory serves, there have been 3-loss and 4-loss teams that have made it into the playoff in the past via Pool A.  Here's how Union makes it in through Pool A:

Assume Union beats RPI, MMA and Susquehanna:

1) Hobart beats WPI
RPI beats Hobart
MMA beats RPI

OR

2) Hobart beats WPI
Hobart beats RPI
Rochester beats Hobart

OR

3) WPI beats Hobart
Susquehanna OR SLU beats WPI
Hobart beats RPI

In addition to the three parts of each scenario, at least one other team must be tied with Union and WPI at two losses, if WPI ends with two losses.  Union does best in a four-way, two-loss tie if WPI is in such a tie.

[union89]

Scroll up one post for an example.

One player admits he doesn't know how his team felt.  He admits he felt weird, he doesn't say anything like he didn't want to win.

Does that mean that there are teams that don't want to win as much as their opponents want to win?

Union used to have player votes on the willingness of guys to play in an ECAC game in the event that we didn't get an NCAA bid.  Many underclassmen would routinely vote to not participate in the ECAC version.

[Jonny Utah]

Scroll up one post for an example.

One player admits he doesn't know how his team felt.  He admits he felt weird, he doesn't say anything like he didn't want to win.

Does that mean that there are teams that don't want to win as much as their opponents want to win?

Union used to have player votes on the willingness of guys to play in an ECAC game in the event that we didn't get an NCAA bid.  Many underclassmen would routinely vote to not participate in the ECAC version.

I forgot to mention that the ECAC trip to Worcester was good because I got a free ride home for thanksgiving break!

(actually, looking at my current Salliemae statement, I guess it wasn't that free)

[Frank Rossi]

Who are those wins against? What would RPI, Ithaca, or Cortland State's record be against the competition that Curry has played? Only difference is that the aforementioned teams and many others lay good competiton consistently.

Well I mean, the NJAC has really only beaten each other from what Ive just looked up.  Lets look at the top 5 in the NJAC right now.

Cortland
no non-league games yet with a big one against Ithaca comming up

Rowan
A 24-14 win over NEFC Bridgewater St.

Montclair
13-6 win over Wilkes

Kean
beat Kings Point 40-0

Brockport
lost to Frosturg 27-14

New Jersey
lost to FDU Florham 42-41

I mean, how do these non-league games put Cortland that much ahead of RPI?  Was it Cortlands win over Union last year with TCNJs win over RPI? 

First off, you can't count.  That showed us six teams.  Second, are you kidding me?  Questioning Cortland's NJAC schedule is about as ridiculous as it gets around here.  Maybe Rowan is down a bit, but dude -- the NJAC is a pretty quality conference (although a little more bottom-heavy this year with the teams added to it).  Rowan and Monclair have been quality teams, especially Rowan.  RPI is a very good team, but Cortland has a defense that could likely penetrate to Robinson better than most LL defenses.  It's not like RPI's offense is a mystery -- they throw 40-50 times a game it seems like.  The issue is that teams facing them can't do anything about it because the guys up front are holding up the fort.  Cortland has a powerful defense that I think would give RPI by far its best challenge of the season if they were to meet.

[Frank Rossi]

I guess I don't get why it's considered so instructive to look at just one of seven games for the NJAC teams and two/three of the Liberty League teams' games. How does that make for a comprehensive analysis?

Cortland has played (and beaten) two teams that are better than anyone RPI has played so far. And I think it's reasonable to believe that Cortland will play three teams who are better than the second-best team RPI will face. (We'll stipulate that Hobart belongs in the group somewhere with Montclair and Rowan.)

Cortland has beaten Rowan and Montclair St., who are better than WPI.
We'll stipulate that Hobart is somewhere in the group with Montclair and Rowan.

Then by implication we've stipulated that Hobart is better than WPI.  Does this get posted in the WPI locker room for Saturday's game?

Ok, I'll say it....I've seen WPI in person and Hobart on webcast.  Hobart is much better than WPI.....not so much because Hobart is fantastic, but rather WPI is a below average team.

I have been biting my tongue on that one for the past couple of weeks.

Although, Union lost to WPI by a field goal.  Union beat Hobart by a field goal.  I think they're actually pretty close -- and TGP's numbers in his weekly post show that.  NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND.

[Frank Rossi]

I couldn't care less about ECAC games. They don't prove one thing to me. You never know who's coming to play and who's coming to mail it in.

Agreed........

So that's a reason not to play the game?  You could end up with some very high-profile matchups this year, relative to most years.  For instance, Union-Curry would be a possibility under current conditions.  That's a very compelling matchup that both teams would likely both show up to play.

[Frank Rossi]

Scroll up one post for an example.

Ummmm.  You can't use JU as a reference after you have impeached him on numerous occasions, you realize?

[Pat Coleman]

I think JU still has credibility when it comes to this issue: his personal feelings.

[union89]

I guess I don't get why it's considered so instructive to look at just one of seven games for the NJAC teams and two/three of the Liberty League teams' games. How does that make for a comprehensive analysis?

Cortland has played (and beaten) two teams that are better than anyone RPI has played so far. And I think it's reasonable to believe that Cortland will play three teams who are better than the second-best team RPI will face. (We'll stipulate that Hobart belongs in the group somewhere with Montclair and Rowan.)

Cortland has beaten Rowan and Montclair St., who are better than WPI.
We'll stipulate that Hobart is somewhere in the group with Montclair and Rowan.

Then by implication we've stipulated that Hobart is better than WPI.  Does this get posted in the WPI locker room for Saturday's game?

Ok, I'll say it....I've seen WPI in person and Hobart on webcast.  Hobart is much better than WPI.....not so much because Hobart is fantastic, but rather WPI is a below average team.

I have been biting my tongue on that one for the past couple of weeks.

Although, Union lost to WPI by a field goal.  Union beat Hobart by a field goal.  I think they're actually pretty close -- and TGP's numbers in his weekly post show that.  NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND.

Well one of us will be correct come Saturday.

[Frank Rossi]

Scroll up one post for an example.

One player admits he doesn't know how his team felt.  He admits he felt weird, he doesn't say anything like he didn't want to win.

Does that mean that there are teams that don't want to win as much as their opponents want to win?

Union used to have player votes on the willingness of guys to play in an ECAC game in the event that we didn't get an NCAA bid.  Many underclassmen would routinely vote to not participate in the ECAC version.

Only once in the last 15 years has there been sentiment even close to that direction in the case of Union -- and it wasn't recent.  I can tell you that as a fact.  Especially now since they've been raped of their tenth game over the last seasons.