FB: Liberty League

[PBR...]

I am with you PBR.  The game should never have been played.  I am just surprised Selig was actually at the park.  He didn't play it for FOX, he played it because he is doing anything to get this series over with.  He has spent his entire tenure promoting two teams and now is getting hit for it.  Why else would they start Game 3 at 10 p.m.?

At least the dropped popup by Rollins didn't hurt anything.  The interesting play is BJ's infield hit.  Rollins just barely got there.  It is pretty close debate whether that is a hit anyway in clean conditions.  I have seen BJ beat that play out so many times, probably as many times as you have seen Rollins make an incredible play in the hole to steal a hit.  Who knows?

In the end, all the other stuff doesn't matter because now Philly loses Hamels for the Series unless he starts Game 7 on short rest.  That is the real travesty.  Especially because I thought we had a good shot at beating him and I'd have like to see that game.

spot on jose...trevor miller and pena said today that is by far the worst conditions they have ever played in and the game should of been called no later than the 3rd inning. how bad would it be if hamels or say david price was pitching and blew out a knee on a soaked mound. its the world series and we want the best product and best effort the teams can put on the field and by the 3rd inning players could get no where near that effort w/ the weather. and for selig to blame it afterwards on the weathermen and field crew is total bush league. the game never should of been played. pbr's friend txt'd him at 6pm from the field and said he was soaked already. they knew heavy rains were coming around 10pm that w/ the 8:30 start there is no way they could get the game in.  a flat out disgrace and bud selig should just fade away quietly.  it is just flat out snowing like a big dog here...places in pennsylvania have 9 inches on the ground already. new england is calling for a foot. BTW they are in the process of calling the game tonight earliest they are playing is tomorrow night. which again is stupid as snow showers and wicked wind chills are forecasted. thurs. night is perfect as mid 40s and no winds are forecasted.

[Jonny Utah]

I am with you PBR.  The game should never have been played.  I am just surprised Selig was actually at the park.  He didn't play it for FOX, he played it because he is doing anything to get this series over with.  He has spent his entire tenure promoting two teams and now is getting hit for it.  Why else would they start Game 3 at 10 p.m.?

At least the dropped popup by Rollins didn't hurt anything.  The interesting play is BJ's infield hit.  Rollins just barely got there.  It is pretty close debate whether that is a hit anyway in clean conditions.  I have seen BJ beat that play out so many times, probably as many times as you have seen Rollins make an incredible play in the hole to steal a hit.  Who knows?

In the end, all the other stuff doesn't matter because now Philly loses Hamels for the Series unless he starts Game 7 on short rest.  That is the real travesty.  Especially because I thought we had a good shot at beating him and I'd have like to see that game.

spot on jose...trevor miller and pena said today that is by far the worst conditions they have ever played in and the game should of been called no later than the 3rd inning. how bad would it be if hamels or say david price was pitching and blew out a knee on a soaked mound. its the world series and we want the best product and best effort the teams can put on the field and by the 3rd inning players could get no where near that effort w/ the weather. and for selig to blame it afterwards on the weathermen and field crew is total bush league. the game never should of been played. pbr's friend txt'd him at 6pm from the field and said he was soaked already. they knew heavy rains were coming around 10pm that w/ the 8:30 start there is no way they could get the game in.  a flat out disgrace and bud selig should just fade away quietly.  it is just flat out snowing like a big dog here...places in pennsylvania have 9 inches on the ground already. new england is calling for a foot. BTW they are in the process of calling the game tonight earliest they are playing is tomorrow night. which again is stupid as snow showers and wicked wind chills are forecasted. thurs. night is perfect as mid 40s and no winds are forecasted.

JU has about 7 big piles of leaves in his yard that he has to scramble to get tonight if anything heavy comes in (which it looks like might just be flurries anyway).  Looks like its going to be mid-50s for the next week though.

[JT]

I'm not saying the NJAC isn't a quality conference.  From top to bottom it is probably the second best in the east behind the MAC.  But I don't think the top 3 in that conference are any better than the top three in the E8 or LL, and I'm not really that impressed with the only thing we can judege the NJAC by at this point, comparative scores.  I mean, Rowan beating Bridgewater St by 10 points?  Are you frickin kidding me?  First games are first games, but the Rowan teams of old would have beaten them by 50 at the half.

FYI.... Rowan was starting a new quarterback in his first college game.  The kid had not played QB since HS three years ago.  He was a WR at U Del.... saw very limited playing time.  The Profs also had a lot of new players.  JT thinks they are good playoff quality team, that can lose or be upset over the next three games.  They have not played a complete good game from start to finish.

JT I think Rowan can be one of the better quality teams in the east too.  I just think the 1988-2005 Rowan teams would have beaten Bridgewater St by 50 points in that game.

In all, this is going to be an exciting end of the season and playoffs for the east region I think.  I hope the NCAA keeps all the east teams (NE, NY, PA, NJ) in the east by themselves.  A lot of good teams and no clear favorites.

They probably would hang 50 on em now.  I guess.  The QB is a lot more comfortable in the spread than in week one.  What I like about this squad is the blocking away from the ball.  Spread really works if you have the Wr's taking the blocking seriously.  This group appears to be more unselfish than in the past.  Lot of nice springing blocks down field.

Should be an interesting few weeks.

[union89]

Perhaps Union should refuse to play in the post season if an alumnus thinks that the team might lose or suffer a letdown.     [/end sarcasm]

Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise, I remain skeptical that any team wants to win less than its opponents.

Why branch that off my response??  I'm not the one suggesting what you stated.  I actually agree with you.

I haven't yet ruled on your earlier objection, counselor.  Sit down. 

Obviously, YOU are not the alumnus advocating on behalf of those who don't want to play football.  Of course we agree.  99 out of every 100 football players agree with you.  I don't understand why that 100th player--including Union's once-starting tailback--wouldn't want to play.

When I said "Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise," I was using the "royal you."

Back then, Union was pretty accustomed to going to the NCAA's (a Stagg Bowl loss followed by 2 OT losses to Ithaca).  If you are on the fence and hopeful of an NCAA bid, can't you see why an ECAC bid would be a letdown?  I voted to play the game, but I can certainly see how getting an invite to an ECAC game on Sunday night when you were hoping for an invite to the big dance is a letdown.

Keep in mind, back then there were no AQ's....16 bids, pretty much all at large...

I guess I--and every other player I've ever met--have a different competitive spirit than your tailback had.  I can't imagine any of my teammates saying "if we don't get the NCAA bid, I don't want to play another game."  Non-starters might be a different story, but players want to play.

I don't really understand what being "on the fence" would have to do with it.  If I were on a good team, I'd REALLY want to play another game.

RS its not just the game, its everything that it built up into the games and season in general.  Im going to bet this week is a very fun week for the Union and RPI football teams.  These two teams know how big this game is going to be for both sides.  For both teams, its a chance to play in front of huge crowds and play in an atmosphere that every player loves to play in.  For RPI, this game will have a direct result on whether or not they might make the playoffs (they probably wont make it if they lose to Unioin and Hobart).  For Union, a win here keeps them alive if a few other things happen (that I don't think are that far fetched, Hobart beating RPI, Hobart losing to Rochester, and Hobart beating WPI would put Union in with a Union win versus RPI).  In the end the game means something.

Althought I don't have the nescac frame of mind, I can understand why those teams want to do it and in the end its their choice.  But for someone like me that wanted to be the best in the country, the ECAC game took on a different meaning.  I was fired up because I wanted to beat a team from Massachusetts and prove that an 10-0 NEFC team didn't match up with upstate teams.  The coaching staff was also in it 100%.  But I'm not going to lie, there was a different feeling about that game, and in the practices going into that game.  Winning it didn't get us any closer to a national championship.  It's not easy to focus on a game that is a scrimmage for all intents and purpuses.  I gave 100% in the game and have no regrets and Im glad we played in it.

You didn't mail it in.  Good for you.  I didn't think you would mail it in.  I knew you wanted to play and win, and in that respect I think you're a lot like 99% or more of all players.

Are you turning into the LLPP psychiatrist??

[redswarm81]

I am with you PBR.  The game should never have been played. 

spot on jose...trevor miller and pena said today that is by far the worst conditions they have ever played in and the game should of been called no later than the 3rd inning.

The game should not have been started.

its the world series and we want the best product and best effort the teams can put on the field

That's impossible, when games are played outdoors at night in late October.  Selig has guaranteed that the World Series will always feature low quality play, often between teams that are barely better than mediocre, since one of every four teams is permitted to play in the post-season.

for selig to blame it afterwards on the weathermen and field crew is total bush league.

Class act, that Selig.  Always willing to make the tough choice, like a tie All Star Game.

a flat out disgrace and bud selig should just fade away quietly. 

Disgrace, I agree, fade away, I disagree.  Bud Selig should be widely and publicly shamed, and held up as an example of how to ruin a once great professional sports organization.

thurs. night is perfect as mid 40s and no winds are forecasted.

Mid 40s do not make for perfect baseball playing conditions.  Pitchers' hands get so cold that their ability to control their pitches are affected.  Batters' hands get so cold that their hands sting for several innings after a nasty foul ball.  Mid 40s is fine for football, but not for baseball.

[redswarm81]

Perhaps Union should refuse to play in the post season if an alumnus thinks that the team might lose or suffer a letdown.     [/end sarcasm]

Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise, I remain skeptical that any team wants to win less than its opponents.

Why branch that off my response??  I'm not the one suggesting what you stated.  I actually agree with you.

I haven't yet ruled on your earlier objection, counselor.  Sit down. 

Obviously, YOU are not the alumnus advocating on behalf of those who don't want to play football.  Of course we agree.  99 out of every 100 football players agree with you.  I don't understand why that 100th player--including Union's once-starting tailback--wouldn't want to play.

When I said "Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise," I was using the "royal you."

Back then, Union was pretty accustomed to going to the NCAA's (a Stagg Bowl loss followed by 2 OT losses to Ithaca).  If you are on the fence and hopeful of an NCAA bid, can't you see why an ECAC bid would be a letdown?  I voted to play the game, but I can certainly see how getting an invite to an ECAC game on Sunday night when you were hoping for an invite to the big dance is a letdown.

Keep in mind, back then there were no AQ's....16 bids, pretty much all at large...

I guess I--and every other player I've ever met--have a different competitive spirit than your tailback had.  I can't imagine any of my teammates saying "if we don't get the NCAA bid, I don't want to play another game."  Non-starters might be a different story, but players want to play.

I don't really understand what being "on the fence" would have to do with it.  If I were on a good team, I'd REALLY want to play another game.

RS its not just the game, its everything that it built up into the games and season in general.  Im going to bet this week is a very fun week for the Union and RPI football teams.  These two teams know how big this game is going to be for both sides.  For both teams, its a chance to play in front of huge crowds and play in an atmosphere that every player loves to play in.  For RPI, this game will have a direct result on whether or not they might make the playoffs (they probably wont make it if they lose to Unioin and Hobart).  For Union, a win here keeps them alive if a few other things happen (that I don't think are that far fetched, Hobart beating RPI, Hobart losing to Rochester, and Hobart beating WPI would put Union in with a Union win versus RPI).  In the end the game means something.

Althought I don't have the nescac frame of mind, I can understand why those teams want to do it and in the end its their choice.  But for someone like me that wanted to be the best in the country, the ECAC game took on a different meaning.  I was fired up because I wanted to beat a team from Massachusetts and prove that an 10-0 NEFC team didn't match up with upstate teams.  The coaching staff was also in it 100%.  But I'm not going to lie, there was a different feeling about that game, and in the practices going into that game.  Winning it didn't get us any closer to a national championship.  It's not easy to focus on a game that is a scrimmage for all intents and purpuses.  I gave 100% in the game and have no regrets and Im glad we played in it.

You didn't mail it in.  Good for you.  I didn't think you would mail it in.  I knew you wanted to play and win, and in that respect I think you're a lot like 99% or more of all players.

Are you turning into the LLPP psychiatrist??

What makes you ask that?

[labart96]

I guess I don't get why it's considered so instructive to look at just one of seven games for the NJAC teams and two/three of the Liberty League teams' games. How does that make for a comprehensive analysis?

Cortland has played (and beaten) two teams that are better than anyone RPI has played so far. And I think it's reasonable to believe that Cortland will play three teams who are better than the second-best team RPI will face. (We'll stipulate that Hobart belongs in the group somewhere with Montclair and Rowan.)

Cortland has beaten Rowan and Montclair St., who are better than WPI.
We'll stipulate that Hobart is somewhere in the group with Montclair and Rowan.

Then by implication we've stipulated that Hobart is better than WPI.  Does this get posted in the WPI locker room for Saturday's game?

Ok, I'll say it....I've seen WPI in person and Hobart on webcast.  Hobart is much better than WPI.....not so much because Hobart is fantastic, but rather WPI is a below average team.

I have been biting my tongue on that one for the past couple of weeks.

In spite of my really long analysis posted yesterday, TGP kind of agrees with U89 on this one.  TGP thinks the issue here is that this year's WPI team is good, but is over-achieving in some fronts whereas this year's Hobart team has generally under-achieved across the board.  The data and performance to date states otherwise, but TGP honestly feels Hobart should win this one handily.  The doubt in everyone's mind is based on the fact that the Statesmen haven't clicked for some reason this season.

Of course, TGP by stating so, has just probably doomed Hobart........

On the WS front - Selig is a clown.  Why he is still commissioner is a mystery.  No one else must want the job.

[JQV]

Selig has guaranteed that the World Series will always feature low quality play, often between teams that are barely better than mediocre, since one of every four teams is permitted to play in the post-season.

I hate the wild card system as much as the next guy but I think this is a stretch.  No regular season separates the wheat from the chaff better than MLB's and there really can't be any doubt that the teams in the World Series are the best two teams in baseball every season. 

In other professional sports, that certainly isn't the case.

[lewdogg11]

Seeing we may have to live through a potential Philly championship of any sort, it's probably good that the excitement was delayed.  Those lunatics may have burnt the city to the ground last night.  Philly has to have the most MISERABLE fans of all time. 

I'm secretly hoping TB now comes back and wins, so Santa Claus really gets pummeled this year...Philly fans deserve to stay miserable.  No offense PBR...

[JQV]

Seeing we may have to live through a potential Philly championship of any sort, it's probably good that the excitement was delayed.  Those lunatics may have burnt the city to the ground last night.  Philly has to have the most MISERABLE fans of all time. 

I'm secretly hoping TB now comes back and wins, so Santa Claus really gets pummeled this year...Philly fans deserve to stay miserable.  No offense PBR...

To play devil's advocate...if they are going to win, perhaps last night was the best night for it.  IT would have been pretty hard to start a fire in that mess.

[redswarm81]

Selig has guaranteed that the World Series will always feature low quality play, often between teams that are barely better than mediocre, since one of every four teams is permitted to play in the post-season.

I hate the wild card system as much as the next guy but I think this is a stretch.  No regular season separates the wheat from the chaff better than MLB's and there really can't be any doubt that the teams in the World Series are the best two teams in baseball every season. 

In other professional sports, that certainly isn't the case.

At 82-80, were the 2005 San Diego Padres wheat, or chaff?

There is no rational reason to play 162 games just to decide which 2.75 out of every 3.75 teams doesn't make the playoffs.

There is a big doubt that the World Series teams are the best two teams in baseball, since the teams with the best regular season records have to play and win two additional series against teams with worse records just to make it to the World Series.

Bud Selig has turned the World Series into a cruel joke.

[JQV]

who were the best teams this year?

[Knightstalker]

Just to play Devils Advocate for Bud Selig, but what would be the outcry today if he decided to call the game last night before it started due to weather and the rain never showed up?  KS thinks he was caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place and would have pissed off people no matter which way he went.  He should have told Fox to get bent and started the game by 6:00-6:30 at the latest.

they need to scale back to 154 or even 152 games and start the season a week later and end it a week earlier, or two weeks if they can bring back double-headers.

[Jonny Utah]

who were the best teams this year?

The Boston Red Sox and the Pawtucket Red Sox?


_"d'oh!"

[Frank Rossi]

Seeing we may have to live through a potential Philly championship of any sort, it's probably good that the excitement was delayed.  Those lunatics may have burnt the city to the ground last night.  Philly has to have the most MISERABLE fans of all time. 

I'm secretly hoping TB now comes back and wins, so Santa Claus really gets pummeled this year...Philly fans deserve to stay miserable.  No offense PBR...

At least the rain would've controlled the blaze.