FB: Liberty League

[dlippiel]

So how does one "show support"?...that's a subjective statement. RT likens how to turn the U around with the question of how to turn the economy around.  It needs to be done but seems like a daunting and hazy task

But, you can put money into a program and have the team struggle. Just look at RPI's men's ice hockey team right now. I'm sure the program is well funded but the product on the ice has not translated into wins. Sure there's some great players - Helfrich and Polacek, but the team has been floundering in the lower half of the league recently while Union, a school without a great Division I hockey tradition (D-I since the early 90s) has flourished over the last year or so.

Sorry if this pisses off RPI fans but I am sure you are already as pissed off as you can be. NO EXCUSE for RPI hockey! They suck period! I love it! I can only say this because I do feel this will change soon. Appert has many deep recruiting connections from his time at Denver and I feel will bring this program up to speed and maybe even surpass past accomplishments. He just needs time to grow as a coach, find his nitche with his players, and adapt to the admissions standards (far different from Denver). SO I know as a Dutch fan I must enjoy this now because it will not last.

[Senor RedTackle]

Great Post here by Upstate that RT is taking from playoff board to repost...nice work US

If North Central wins next week vs a 7-2 Elmhurst team (not a given) and MUC wins next week (probably a given) then MUC will probably be shipped over regardless of the results of Cortaca.

North Central is ranked #2 in the North, #2 in the D3.com and #4 in the AFCA poll, if they go 10-0 the NCAA will feel that they deserve a #1 seed and the easiest solution would be to put MUC in the East, North Central in the North, Muhlenburgh or Millsaps in the South and Williamette/Occidental/Monmouth in the West...

If Cortland and SJF win:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-SJF
6-Plymouth St
7-Lyco
8-RPI

If Cortland loses and SJF wins:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-SJF
7-Plymouth St
8-Lyco

If Cortland wins and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-Ithaca
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco

If Cortland loses and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco

[Reno Hightower]

Since the inception of the LL in 2004, Union is 5-5 vs. Hobart and RPI.....I would rather they be 10-0 obviously, but 5-5 certainly lends credence to the 3 headed LL monster with Union very much involved.

The sky is not falling....Reno, especially needs to step back and take a breath.....

Losses to Hobart and RPI used to not happen very often. What was your record versus those 2 schools U89? It is disturbing to me that you seem to not be angry about where the program has gone in the last 8 years.

And as for everyones strict academic policies at Union argument and the nescac mentality......In the 80's when someone said things were unbelievable admissions wise and in the 90's when they werent quite the same but still reloading......Union was ranked in the top 25. Union is now somewhere in the 40s. Academic Rankings, not football.

[Garnet]

Miracles aren't 75% chances, by definition, Garnet.  They actually have a decent shot of the ECAC game if they win.  It's more a question of figuring out how two Pool B/C teams make their way into the playoffs from the ECAC Northwest/Northeast regions.  Kean can beat Montclair.  Ithaca can beat Cortland.  Ithaca could still get consideration if Cortland beats Ithaca.  Husson could still garner some level of consideration if any Pool B teams lose this weekend unexpectedly.  It's not a miracle scenario -- and these were just the games that affect Pool C that are being played in the East Region -- there are games in other regions that are important, too.

Main Entry: mir·a·cle  
Pronunciation: \ˈmir-i-kəl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin miraculum, from Latin, a wonder, marvel, from mirari to wonder at
Date: 12th century
1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment

It looks like it will take some divine intervention getting all the teams to win/lose and thus get the Dutchmen one more game.

Would I like to see it?  YES.  

I also think I am just being realistic.

[PBR...]

Great Post here by Upstate that RT is taking from playoff board to repost...nice work US

If North Central wins next week vs a 7-2 Elmhurst team (not a given) and MUC wins next week (probably a given) then MUC will probably be shipped over regardless of the results of Cortaca.

North Central is ranked #2 in the North, #2 in the D3.com and #4 in the AFCA poll, if they go 10-0 the NCAA will feel that they deserve a #1 seed and the easiest solution would be to put MUC in the East, North Central in the North, Muhlenburgh or Millsaps in the South and Williamette/Occidental/Monmouth in the West...

If Cortland and SJF win:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-SJF
6-Plymouth St
7-Lyco
8-RPI

If Cortland loses and SJF wins:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-SJF
7-Plymouth St
8-Lyco

If Cortland wins and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-Ithaca
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco

If Cortland loses and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco

1 change...put mac champion in there instead of lyco as 4 teams have a shot to win the mac this weekend...

[Senor RedTackle]

So how does one "show support"?...that's a subjective statement. RT likens how to turn the U around with the question of how to turn the economy around.  It needs to be done but seems like a daunting and hazy task

But, you can put money into a program and have the team struggle. Just look at RPI's men's ice hockey team right now. I'm sure the program is well funded but the product on the ice has not translated into wins. Sure there's some great players - Helfrich and Polacek, but the team has been floundering in the lower half of the league recently while Union, a school without a great Division I hockey tradition (D-I since the early 90s) has flourished over the last year or so.

Sorry if this pisses off RPI fans but I am sure you are already as pissed off as you can be. NO EXCUSE for RPI hockey! They suck period! I love it! I can only say this because I do feel this will change soon. Appert has many deep recruiting connections from his time at Denver and I feel will bring this program up to speed and maybe even surpass past accomplishments. He just needs time to grow as a coach, find his nitche with his players, and adapt to the admissions standards (far different from Denver). SO I know as a Dutch fan I must enjoy this now because it will not last.

honestly, RT could care less about RPI hockey. Sure, he'd like to see them win as an RPI alum but RT doesnt follow the team, doesn't know the players (except the ones he was friends with when he was there in the 90s), and has a chip on his shoulder because the hockey team is what the Troy residents care about....not football. Local Troilets go to RPI hockey games with passion and follow the team but they don't go out and support the RPI football team, who is competing on a national level for the last several years and has a much better winning percentage then the long-haired Frenchies...(no offense, of course)

RT thinks most of his RPI football compadres feel the same

[dlippiel]

It is nice to see this board get back on track. I was reading post from the last few days and I couldn't help but think the LLPP really sucks the big one now.

Union's last game of the season is Saturday.  It will take a miracle for them to get another game this season.  Thank God the 'discussion' about Union vs. Curry is over.  It is not going to happen. At least not this year.

RT brings up many great points and TGP has most of the answers.  I think the rest of the teams in the region have caught up.

Anyone remember the talk of Union moving up to 1AA back in the mid to late 80s?  

Miracles aren't 75% chances, by definition, Garnet.  They actually have a decent shot of the ECAC game if they win.  It's more a question of figuring out how two Pool B/C teams make their way into the playoffs from the ECAC Northwest/Northeast regions.  Kean can beat Montclair.  Ithaca can beat Cortland.  Ithaca could still get consideration if Cortland beats Ithaca.  Husson could still garner some level of consideration if any Pool B teams lose this weekend unexpectedly.  It's not a miracle scenario -- and these were just the games that affect Pool C that are being played in the East Region -- there are games in other regions that are important, too.

come on Frank, you know you'd rather root for a Cortland win (and a SJF win) because that scenario likely has RPI heading to Alliance as an 8 seed to face #1 MUC

I would love to see it! I would be an avid RPI fan for that match-up. It would be interesting to see how Robertson played in that game. WHat would be King's game plan towards MUC? Very interesting match-up. RPI would have a huge opportunity to make a name for itself. I think last year they would have played MUC much better than TCNJ did. I am still pissed about that loss.

[John McGraw]

So how does one "show support"?...that's a subjective statement. RT likens how to turn the U around with the question of how to turn the economy around.  It needs to be done but seems like a daunting and hazy task

But, you can put money into a program and have the team struggle. Just look at RPI's men's ice hockey team right now. I'm sure the program is well funded but the product on the ice has not translated into wins. Sure there's some great players - Helfrich and Polacek, but the team has been floundering in the lower half of the league recently while Union, a school without a great Division I hockey tradition (D-I since the early 90s) has flourished over the last year or so.

Lo and behold, a Johnnie Mac sighting....and talking hockey to boot!! The voice of Cornell Hockey has spoken!!

good to here from you, my baseball radio partner (and also lightning delayed FB partner)

Right league, wrong school. :-)

Colgate.

I'm up for baseball again this year if you are - though hopefully we won't have to deal with those Ohio interlopers (OWU, GCC). I enjoyed them being there and it was nice to see teams from outside the region but it's not the same without an All-New York bracket. At least the two best teams played in the finals. I'm going to talk to Jim to see if we can maybe get a conference tournament in this year (as a broadcast) before the national playoffs.

[Garnet]

Since the inception of the LL in 2004, Union is 5-5 vs. Hobart and RPI.....I would rather they be 10-0 obviously, but 5-5 certainly lends credence to the 3 headed LL monster with Union very much involved.

The sky is not falling....Reno, especially needs to step back and take a breath.....

Losses to Hobart and RPI used to not happen very often. What was your record versus those 2 schools U89? It is disturbing to me that you seem to not be angry about where the program has gone in the last 8 years.

And as for everyones strict academic policies at Union argument and the nescac mentality......In the 80's when someone said things were unbelievable admissions wise and in the 90's when they werent quite the same but still reloading......Union was ranked in the top 25. Union is now somewhere in the 40s. Academic Rankings, not football.

It looks like the Union football staff needs to get one of their guys back into the admissions office.

[union89]

Reno, what year did you graduate from Union?

[dlippiel]

So how does one "show support"?...that's a subjective statement. RT likens how to turn the U around with the question of how to turn the economy around.  It needs to be done but seems like a daunting and hazy task

But, you can put money into a program and have the team struggle. Just look at RPI's men's ice hockey team right now. I'm sure the program is well funded but the product on the ice has not translated into wins. Sure there's some great players - Helfrich and Polacek, but the team has been floundering in the lower half of the league recently while Union, a school without a great Division I hockey tradition (D-I since the early 90s) has flourished over the last year or so.

Sorry if this pisses off RPI fans but I am sure you are already as pissed off as you can be. NO EXCUSE for RPI hockey! They suck period! I love it! I can only say this because I do feel this will change soon. Appert has many deep recruiting connections from his time at Denver and I feel will bring this program up to speed and maybe even surpass past accomplishments. He just needs time to grow as a coach, find his nitche with his players, and adapt to the admissions standards (far different from Denver). SO I know as a Dutch fan I must enjoy this now because it will not last.

honestly, RT could care less about RPI hockey. Sure, he'd like to see them win as an RPI alum but RT doesnt follow the team, doesn't know the players (except the ones he was friends with when he was there in the 90s), and has a chip on his shoulder because the hockey team is what the Troy residents care about....not football. Local Troilets go to RPI hockey games with passion and follow the team but they don't go out and support the RPI football team, who is competing on a national level for the last several years and has a much better winning percentage then the long-haired Frenchies...(no offense, of course)

RT thinks most of his RPI football compadres feel the same

It's a shame because the locals have missed on on some very exciting football by some very talented and dedicated student athletes at RPI. Definitely the communities loss there. I don't care what division the sport is the local community should support in wholeheartedly and without a bias. RPI football is a diamond in the rough for the city of Troy.

[union89]

Since the inception of the LL in 2004, Union is 5-5 vs. Hobart and RPI.....I would rather they be 10-0 obviously, but 5-5 certainly lends credence to the 3 headed LL monster with Union very much involved.

The sky is not falling....Reno, especially needs to step back and take a breath.....

Losses to Hobart and RPI used to not happen very often. What was your record versus those 2 schools U89? It is disturbing to me that you seem to not be angry about where the program has gone in the last 8 years.

And as for everyones strict academic policies at Union argument and the nescac mentality......In the 80's when someone said things were unbelievable admissions wise and in the 90's when they werent quite the same but still reloading......Union was ranked in the top 25. Union is now somewhere in the 40s. Academic Rankings, not football.

It looks like the Union football staff needs to get one of their guys back into the admissions office.

Chief 'Hi-Socks' to the rescue!!!!!

[Frank Rossi]

Well said Frank but what can be done about this? I know this school can be incredibly stubborn in the admissions area. Is there anything that can change? I would be very curious to hear Audino's thoughts on this. If this is the case it must be very frustrating for him year in and year out. This administration always seems to make boneheaded decisions. As a hockey fan also (heart will always be with the football team though) many ask how the hell U could go to division 1, expect to be successful, yet not do the things everyone knows need to be done to be successful. How can you compete without full athletic scholarships. **** the hockey team doesn't even have a ****ing band? I don't know this school can really piss me off some times.

First, I have no problem with Hockey being in Division 1.  I just think that the expectations need to chill a bit (no pun intended).  If the expectations of winning the ECAC every year would subside, there would be less need to throw ALL your resources in that direction.  Remember, UNION CANNOT GIVE SCHOLARSHIPS, as you said.  So it can never fully compete in the way that would allow for consistent success.  In the 1990s, there were two decent runs that the teams made that equaled the success of the 2007-08 Skating Dutchmen -- and we weren't throwing resources hand over fist into those programs.  Now, all twelve ECAC teams gain entry into the ECAC Tournament, so the fear of missing the tourney in 11th and 12th place doesn't exist anymore.  The sinking of all the time, money and commitment into that program has proven over and over to be a fool's game.

So, you asked, what can be done?  Spread some awareness with your Union alumni friends.  Many people don't recognize where the weak links exist right now.  They see the football record and assume that the coaches are to blame.  I can personally verify that this isn't the case; the coaching staff has been putting forth a herculean effort the past few years to try to match their 2005-06 success with recruiting to fill the gaps for players that have graduated off.  This is where U89 will attempt to say I am friends with the coaching staff and therefore should not be given any credit.  Well, unlike him, I ASK QUESTIONS to form my decisions, thoughts and eventual answers.  I don't just buy into a bunch of rhetoric being thrown at me, whether or not the person/people are friends of mine.  I've watched and asked for three years to understand what is going on, and you can take it from me right now that what I've stated is a very fair assessment.

Case in point:  Union goes 10-0 in 2005.  The electricity surrounding the program was unreal whenever I'd attend an alumni event in NYC that year.  Instead of taking the electricity and the excitement and turning that into money, better recruiting and more success, my best deduction is that the top of the food chain decided to instead give less commitment since the thought was that the program would carry itself for at least another one or two years -- so why waste resources on it at that point?  We're still paying the price for that decision.  I see some glimmers of hope right now with the season that the Dutchmen are trying to hatch together through some really committed play by this year's Union players.  However, the 2005 scenario must never play out again -- because 2006 and 2007 began a downturn that can do permanent harm to a program.  It will take strong commitment for another two years and then a consistent level every year after that before we see this program at the level it SHOULD be at.

So, get alumni involved, dl.  My hands are tied generally because I'm the Union radio guy who tries to take the silver lining whenever possible because my commitment is to the players on the field and highlighting their strengths while mentioning areas in which they need improvement.  Dwelling on issues like these would not accomplish my goal as Union's radio voice.  However, let me be open here:  these issues are clear and present and need to be dealt with in short order.

[Frank Rossi]

unionfan and frank covered what bigdvs had to add,


bigdvs would ask FR though is Tom McClaughlin helping with this or is he trying to not appear biased towards football and doing to little? He would seem to be where Audino should have some leverage with him being a former player and a coach on Audino's staff for the 96-97 seasons.

If there's something I cannot stand to watch, it's disloyalty.  And right now, I'm sitting, not standing.  Perhaps you'll see the answer couched in this response.

[union89]

Well said Frank but what can be done about this? I know this school can be incredibly stubborn in the admissions area. Is there anything that can change? I would be very curious to hear Audino's thoughts on this. If this is the case it must be very frustrating for him year in and year out. This administration always seems to make boneheaded decisions. As a hockey fan also (heart will always be with the football team though) many ask how the hell U could go to division 1, expect to be successful, yet not do the things everyone knows need to be done to be successful. How can you compete without full athletic scholarships. **** the hockey team doesn't even have a ****ing band? I don't know this school can really piss me off some times.

First, I have no problem with Hockey being in Division 1.  I just think that the expectations need to chill a bit (no pun intended).  If the expectations of winning the ECAC every year would subside, there would be less need to throw ALL your resources in that direction.  Remember, UNION CANNOT GIVE SCHOLARSHIPS, as you said.  So it can never fully compete in the way that would allow for consistent success.  In the 1990s, there were two decent runs that the teams made that equaled the success of the 2007-08 Skating Dutchmen -- and we weren't throwing resources hand over fist into those programs.  Now, all twelve ECAC teams gain entry into the ECAC Tournament, so the fear of missing the tourney in 11th and 12th place doesn't exist anymore.  The sinking of all the time, money and commitment into that program has proven over and over to be a fool's game.

So, you asked, what can be done?  Spread some awareness with your Union alumni friends.  Many people don't recognize where the weak links exist right now.  They see the football record and assume that the coaches are to blame.  I can personally verify that this isn't the case; the coaching staff has been putting forth a herculean effort the past few years to try to match their 2005-06 success with recruiting to fill the gaps for players that have graduated off.  This is where U89 will attempt to say I am friends with the coaching staff and therefore should not be given any credit.  Well, unlike him, I ASK QUESTIONS to form my decisions, thoughts and eventual answers.  I don't just buy into a bunch of rhetoric being thrown at me, whether or not the person/people are friends of mine.  I've watched and asked for three years to understand what is going on, and you can take it from me right now that what I've stated is a very fair assessment.

Case in point:  Union goes 10-0 in 2005.  The electricity surrounding the program was unreal whenever I'd attend an alumni event in NYC that year.  Instead of taking the electricity and the excitement and turning that into money, better recruiting and more success, my best deduction is that the top of the food chain decided to instead give less commitment since the thought was that the program would carry itself for at least another one or two years -- so why waste resources on it at that point?  We're still paying the price for that decision.  I see some glimmers of hope right now with the season that the Dutchmen are trying to hatch together through some really committed play by this year's Union players.  However, the 2005 scenario must never play out again -- because 2006 and 2007 began a downturn that can do permanent harm to a program.  It will take strong commitment for another two years and then a consistent level every year after that before we see this program at the level it SHOULD be at.

So, get alumni involved, dl.  My hands are tied generally because I'm the Union radio guy who tries to take the silver lining whenever possible because my commitment is to the players on the field and highlighting their strengths while mentioning areas in which they need improvement.  Dwelling on issues like these would not accomplish my goal as Union's radio voice.  However, let me be open here:  these issues are clear and present and need to be dealt with in short order.

dig....dig....dig.....I refuse to bite, but I hope others see through your game.....