FB: Liberty League

[pumkinattack]

Congrat's to RPI for their big win.  I agree with Frank: note the conference results in postseason.  I'd throw in the NJAC too (2-2, but MSU and Kean didn't fare too well, nice win for Brockport).  I really think the LL was tougher top to bottom than people gave them credit for - still don't get the MMA - RPI game.  I kind of noticed SOME (note to any offended, I didn't see all of their fans) at the Hobart game talking about how they were tough and behaved as though this one was in the bag (I heard some kids talking about throwing snowballs at Hobart players before the game and was worried I was going to piss off my wife by getting thrown out if I had to regulate on those fools.  Luckily they took care of it on the field). 

I'm pretty pumped after watching yesterday's game.  Also a little numb, I think I lost a toe to frostbite, but it was worth it to watch what was Hobart's best play of the year.  Doyle underthrew all day and that shoulder has to be killing him, but what a tough bastard!  He was running for a first down and I'm yelling watch your shoulder and he never even thinks of sliding.  Even goes out and catches a 13 yard pass for a big first down in the 3rd (or 4th, can't recall). 

It may be too late to do anything about their fate, but I think they are finally adjusting to the new offensive personnel.  They've basically gone away from using the TE for anything right now, but are utilizing Siravo (FB) much more and Marlier (and Tritten) looked great.  The first quarter when they didn't do much was about the same with trick plays losing two or predictable run calls out of shotgun where Marlier gets hit 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but they finally lined up under center and started running the ball for 3 - 6 yards regularly.  Should've done more of this all year.  I kind of think the offense was starting to gel with WPI until they lost Hobaica and Duliba on back to back plays and had to start over after that. 

No illusions of a Hobart win (though one can pray), but I'm psyched for those guys to get this chance.  I really hope they go out there and at the end of the game, regardless of score, MUC walks off the field saying "what a fight, they really came  to play". 

Also, anyone who follows CNY football:  How good was Whitesboro HS last year?  Woodard and Tritten both came from there and they both appear as though they will excel at this level (loved Tritten running, both the big run and the other where he ran through one defender and spun off another for 12 or 13 yards). 

[union89]

RPI ends the '86 Field Era with a win. 34-31 over Alfred.

8-0 in ECAC games

"We're #33!!!  We're #33!!!".....

Seriously, congrats to RPI.....Hobart & RPI go 2-0.....great showing today for the LL.

How do we feel about our Curry conversation now U89?!?!?!?!? W-O-W!!!!!

Was I the only one who felt that way?

No you werent. Which helps solidify a few of my points:
1. despite my negative karma, i may know a thing or two
2. curry would have been a valuable opponent for union should that have been an ecac matchup. union being a young team on the rise, a gme against a quality opponent would have been great. reno argued that curry is a quality opponent. he was right.

so you can defend yourself with strength in numbers all you want but all it does is prove my point even more.

with that said, i wrote W-O-W for a reason, i didnt expect Curry to beat Ithaca. But now the East Region teams better beware. Pool C's will be harder to come by because whoever loses the Curry-PSU matchup from now on will definetly have an inside track on a Pool-C Bid.

It was foolish to lessen a win over Hartwick because of Hartwicks reputation. They just hung 68 on a team that year in and year out has the reputation of having 1 of the best defenses in the nation.

Curry beats E8-Champs 2 years in a row in the Playoffs.
Someone said it before: welcome to parody in the East!

Reno there is no doubt that Curry would have been a good opponent for Union (or any east team obviously)  this year.  But an ECAC game between Union and Curry would still be looked at different ways.  If Union won, there would probably still be the consensus that Curry is the NEFC team that only had one good win in the history of their program, and the win could have been taken as any other win (to most people)

If they lost, the Union football program would continue to be questioned like we have seen on this board this year.  Im not saying that would have been right (especially seeing now that Curry probably was one of the top 5 teams in the east this year). But it would have happened. 

I agree with both, but Utah has articulated my thoughts pretty well.

[HScoach]

.....No illusions of a Hobart win (though one can pray), but I'm psyched for those guys to get this chance.  I really hope they go out there and at the end of the game, regardless of score, MUC walks off the field saying "what a fight, they really came  to play"....

As a MUC guy, that's what I hope for too.   Hopefully both teams come in healthy and playing their best.

The keys for matching up with this Mount team are simple:
1.  Run the ball straight at their undersized defense.
2.  Tackle Nate Kmic on first contact.

If you can't do both of those you're in trouble.

[theoriginalupstate]

.....No illusions of a Hobart win (though one can pray), but I'm psyched for those guys to get this chance.  I really hope they go out there and at the end of the game, regardless of score, MUC walks off the field saying "what a fight, they really came  to play"....

As a MUC guy, that's what I hope for too.   Hopefully both teams come in healthy and playing their best.

The keys for matching up with this Mount team are simple:
1.  Run the ball straight at their undersized defense.
2.  Tackle Nate Kmic on first contact.

If you can't do both of those you're in trouble.

Yeah dont spread MUC out and then try to run lateral on them...

In 2006 Robinson had over 100yds when they ran inside and outside zone plays on them...

SJF didnt do so well the past two years trying to run the shotgun zone read running plays......

[Jonny Utah]

.....No illusions of a Hobart win (though one can pray), but I'm psyched for those guys to get this chance.  I really hope they go out there and at the end of the game, regardless of score, MUC walks off the field saying "what a fight, they really came  to play"....

As a MUC guy, that's what I hope for too.   Hopefully both teams come in healthy and playing their best.

The keys for matching up with this Mount team are simple:
1.  Run the ball straight at their undersized defense.
2.  Tackle Nate Kmic on first contact.

If you can't do both of those you're in trouble.

Yeah dont spread MUC out and then try to run lateral on them...

SJF didnt do so well the past two years trying to do so...

I didnt see all the games against MUC last year or this year, but how many teams besides WW last year were able to run anywhere against MUC?  Thats the key.  If you want to run the football, you need 4/5 guys on offense to be able to "block" 4/5 guys on the defense.  I know that sounds really simple, but teams simply just havent been able to do that against MUC.

And I agree with the tackling 100%.  If Ithaca could have tackles Kmic on the first contact every time last year (or almost every time) they could have been in that game going into the 4th.  They didnt, and Kmic will run to the endzone after that initial miss.

[res ipsa loquitur]

.....No illusions of a Hobart win (though one can pray), but I'm psyched for those guys to get this chance.  I really hope they go out there and at the end of the game, regardless of score, MUC walks off the field saying "what a fight, they really came  to play"....

As a MUC guy, that's what I hope for too.   Hopefully both teams come in healthy and playing their best.

The keys for matching up with this Mount team are simple:
1.  Run the ball straight at their undersized defense.
2.  Tackle Nate Kmic on first contact.

If you can't do both of those you're in trouble.

Yeah dont spread MUC out and then try to run lateral on them...

SJF didnt do so well the past two years trying to do so...

I didnt see all the games against MUC last year or this year, but how many teams besides WW last year were able to run anywhere against MUC?  Thats the key.  If you want to run the football, you need 4/5 guys on offense to be able to "block" 4/5 guys on the defense.  I know that sounds really simple, but teams simply just havent been able to do that against MUC.

And I agree with the tackling 100%.  If Ithaca could have tackles Kmic on the first contact every time last year (or almost every time) they could have been in that game going into the 4th.  They didnt, and Kmic will run to the endzone after that initial miss.

Exactly.  And Hobart's game is pass-first anyway.  Pass protection will be a bigger key than where they attempt to run.  Here's hoping Cragg and the Pumpkinheads find a way to get er done.

[theoriginalupstate]

Exactly.  And Hobart's game is pass-first anyway.  Pass protection will be a bigger key than where they attempt to run.  Here's hoping Cragg and the Pumpkinheads find a way to get er done.

How's the Bart O-line??

If you want a chance you need a great O-line to make a run at them...

[labart96]

Exactly.  And Hobart's game is pass-first anyway.  Pass protection will be a bigger key than where they attempt to run.  Here's hoping Cragg and the Pumpkinheads find a way to get er done.

How's the Bart O-line??

If you want a chance you need a great O-line to make a run at them...

Interesting question.  Good on paper - avg 270-275 lbs across the board and is 8 (maybe 9) players deep.  Yesterday though, TGP felt that Lyco's 4 man front really controlled the LOS to start the game.  However, as the game went on the OL surge improved and they eventually took over.

Been puzzling given their size, depth and the fact that many are returning players that they'd be a strength of this team.  Same deal last season - big, experienced guys but rarely did they flat out dominate an opposing defensive front.

Like Res said (welcome back btw), they are more of "pass blocking" unit since Hobart leans pass first so that could explain why they haven't been as effective just lining up and running it straight at you.

[pumkinattack]

The O-Line is experienced and had decent size, but haven't performed in run blocking.  They are pretty proficient with their footwork and pass block well.  

That being said, the offense has kind of changed the last three weeks with some new personnel.  The running game was more tosses and outside runs before, but yesterday it was much more line up under center and run iso's or off tackle, north-south kind of running.  

The biggest problem might be that Doyle has a funky delivery to begin with, kind of cocked push throwing motion and has a shoulder injury to boot, so while Lyco wasn't getting to him, the throws left Doyle's hand on level with his helmet (a couple inches lower than a "normal" throwing motion) which led to many batted balls at the LOS.  

[Jonny Utah]

Its probably safe to say that Hobarts best chance is by throwing the ball.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing against MUC I dont think.

Did someone say Hobart runs a 4-4?  That might be a decent defense against MUC as well.

[res ipsa loquitur]

It think Bart runs a 4-3, but they crowd the box a lot with 8.

TGP:  Thanks. Been silent most of the year, but after finally getting to a game I feel like I can chime in here and there. 


Could be as good a week as any we've had for Western-Central NY football in a while.  UB in the MAC championship game. Those Hobart lookalikes taking out the golden domers.  Upset in Alliance?

[pumkinattack]

Its probably safe to say that Hobarts best chance is by throwing the ball.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing against MUC I dont think.

Did someone say Hobart runs a 4-4?  That might be a decent defense against MUC as well.

Yeah, its a 4-4.  The weakness has been to the weak side.  If you have a strong RG, RT & TE, you can beat Guidetti, Patterson and the DB.  That's where Dickinson, CMU and most of the other teams who had rushing success (U of R early on) did their damage.  Generally they tackle well, but Coney broke a lot of tackles in the loss to Union (they also had the most success running in the middle of the field - Aruck has played much better since that game, he wasn't bad before though).  

I don't think Doyle can throw deep right now.  The 35 yard pass in the middle of the field yesterday was a bit of a floater where the safety sat back like a fair catch on a punt return and Schettine just kind of ran from outside the hash in front of the safety and grabbed it.  The best part of the passing game is quick outs, slants, and, quite frankly jump balls on deep outs.  Vincent and Schulz have good, but not great size, but they catch balls you just wouldn't expect them to pull in (Schulz's first TD catch yesterday was a one hander falling backwards).

EDIT:  Technically Res is correct, its a 4-3 (Field LB, Middle LB, Will and Rover), but it functions like a 4-4. 

[dlippiel]

Its probably safe to say that Hobarts best chance is by throwing the ball.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing against MUC I dont think.

Did someone say Hobart runs a 4-4?  That might be a decent defense against MUC as well.

Yeah, its a 4-4.  The weakness has been to the weak side.  If you have a strong RG, RT & TE, you can beat Guidetti, Patterson and the DB.  That's where Dickinson, CMU and most of the other teams who had rushing success (U of R early on) did their damage.  Generally they tackle well, but Coney broke a lot of tackles in the loss to Union (they also had the most success running in the middle of the field - Aruck has played much better since that game, he wasn't bad before though).  

I don't think Doyle can throw deep right now.  The 35 yard pass in the middle of the field yesterday was a bit of a floater where the safety sat back like a fair catch on a punt return and Schettine just kind of ran from outside the hash in front of the safety and grabbed it.  The best part of the passing game is quick outs, slants, and, quite frankly jump balls on deep outs.  Vincent and Schulz have good, but not great size, but they catch balls you just wouldn't expect them to pull in (Schulz's first TD catch yesterday was a one hander falling backwards).

EDIT:  Technically Res is correct, its a 4-3 (Field LB, Middle LB, Will and Rover), but it functions like a 4-4. 

pumpkin attack I thought someone said Barts back-up was set to start yesterday? Did he? Or did Doyle play the whole game. I am not happy that I was unable to make the trip and it sounds as if it would have been a great game to watch. I am very proud of Bart that they have the opportunity to go out and play MUC. What a dream come true for those players. They have earned the right to play the best. Hopefully they can make a solid showing and give MUC a game. Never underestimate the Pumpkinheads and the LL!

[pumkinattack]

The game notes listed Vella first on the two deep.  I like Vella's prospects over the next few years and think that if he develops, next year could be a nice offense with the top five WR's returning along with two RB's closing out the season, but am very glad that Doyle played. 

What Doyle's doing deserves attention (psst: Keith and Pat).  He's playing with a separated shoulder, taking on tacklers and even catching a pass yesterday.  Its his last shot as he backed up Mizro and Strom the last three years, so he's truly leaving it all out on the field. 

[dlippiel]

The game notes listed Vella first on the two deep.  I like Vella's prospects over the next few years and think that if he develops, next year could be a nice offense with the top five WR's returning along with two RB's closing out the season, but am very glad that Doyle played. 

What Doyle's doing deserves attention (psst: Keith and Pat).  He's playing with a separated shoulder, taking on tacklers and even catching a pass yesterday.  Its his last shot as he backed up Mizro and Strom the last three years, so he's truly leaving it all out on the field. 

Hat's off to Doyle and it is great that he has earned the right to lead Bart agianst MUC. We are behind ya Doyle keep it up man!