World Cup and European leagues

[Mr. Ypsi]

USA was absolutely robbed by the most incompetent (and/or dishonest) officating I can ever recall.  Down 2-0 at the half, they absolutely dominated in the second.  They tied it up, then had the winning goal disallowed for no reason whatsoever.  No one was offside, and even if the goal was disallowed, the US should have had a PK, as Michael Bradley was absolutely mugged.  The official also cost us Findley for the third game, giving him a yellow for a 'deliberate handball', when the ball clearly hit his face, not his hand.

After falling behind 2-0, I guess we can't be TOO disappointed with a point, but legitimately they earned three points.

[Ralph Turner]

USA was absolutely robbed by the most incompetent (and/or dishonest) officating I can ever recall.  Down 2-0 at the half, they absolutely dominated in the second.  They tied it up, then had the winning goal disallowed for no reason whatsoever.  No one was offside, and even if the goal was disallowed, the US should have had a PK, as Michael Bradley was absolutely mugged.  The official also cost us Findley for the third game, giving him a yellow for a 'deliberate handball', when the ball clearly hit his face, not his hand.

After falling behind 2-0, I guess we can't be TOO disappointed with a point, but legitimately they earned three points.

The question by the quadrennial fan is, "Why should I follow a sport in which the Americans aren't gonna get a fair break?  I don't care what the rest of the world thinks.  I do not define myself by what the world thinks or likes for enterntainment."

[BoBo]

The question by the quadrennial fan is, "Why should I follow a sport in which the Americans aren't gonna get a fair break?  

Memo to the quadrennial fan:  it isn't only the Americans who are the victim of poor officiating -- this is one game where everybody gets their fair share!!    However, that disallowed third goal was one of the worst calls I have seen in recent memory.

I'm not a huge fan of the sport for a lot more reasons than the questionable officiating that goes on. But I do watch it because as an ex-pat, living in a football crazy country, I almost have to. I follow it because I want to show my colors and want to support the guys wearing our uniform - win, lose or (like today) draw.  

[Hoosier Titan]

Well, the officiating was a disgrace, as Alexi Lalas said.  No question--and it was a one-sided disgrace.  Nothing remotely like it against Slovenia, a side whose whining, crying, diving, and face-grabbing (a sure sign someone is acting) were extremely tiresome.

The US did very well to come back, but...as Lalas also said at halftime--where were they in the first half?  The defending was poor on both Slovenian goals.  Both US goals were terrific; I didn't think Donovan had a prayer with that angle and two defenders on him.  If they could just get off the starting blocks, they'd be right up there with the top contenders.

Ralph, I don't know what to say to you.  If soccer doesn't interest you beyond the performance of the US, then you shouldn't follow it.  The dependence of the game on one official's decisions is one of its weak points.  Perhaps I'm being naive, but I vote for incompetence over malevolence in this case.  And yes, it was gross incompetence.

I suppose folks have heard that David James will be in goal for England today.  If England beat Slovenia and Algeria and the US beat Algeria, then the "cousins" both go through, I think.  The England-Slovenia match will be huge.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Slovenian defenseman, Marko Suler:  "They were pushing and holding all the time.  You could see it was a foul and it was the correct decision.  They did not deserve to win the game.  It would not have been the correct result.  We were the better team."

WOW!  5 short sentences and 5 blatant lies - a new record for a non-politician!

Marko, watch a re-play of the game, especially the 86th minute.  You got your azzes kicked by the much superior team in the second half.  I wonder - were YOU the guy that had Bradley in a bear hug before throwing him to the ground during the game-winning goal?

[Hoosier Titan]

Halftime, and wakeup time for England.  They started as sluggishly as the US did.  The Algerians are beating them to most balls and defending well. 

[hopefan]

Sorry, D3hoops is my interest, but I am patriotic, so Im following the World cup   -  what happens if USA and England both finish at 0 - 0 - 3   ?  What is the tie break?  Goals for?  Goals Against?     ... thanks....

[sac]

Sorry, D3hoops is my interest, but I am patriotic, so Im following the World cup   -  what happens if USA and England both finish at 0 - 0 - 3   ?  What is the tie break?  Goals for?  Goals Against?     ... thanks....

goal differential, at the moment US holds a +2 advantage over England.  The poor English would never let Green live it down ever if that happened.

[sac]

Today demonstrated one of the oldest cliches in sport.

" and thats why they play the games".

[sac]

I heisted both of these links from a Michigan football blog who's author is bonkers over US soccer.

Image #1 and it really needs no explination does it, but the red arrows point out the 4 fouls on US players occuring.  Two of them horrible, see Dempsey and Bradley......actually you can't see Dempsey because he's being swallowed by a Slovenian.




The next link is to a game he somehow remembered from the 2002 World Cup, in which Ireland had drawn their first game and were trailing Germany by 1, and needed a draw to keep their advancement hopes alive....

then this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFQOoSUbnBs&feature=player_embedded

that is a scary good memory.

[Hoosier Titan]

Sorry, D3hoops is my interest, but I am patriotic, so Im following the World cup   -  what happens if USA and England both finish at 0 - 0 - 3   ?  What is the tie break?  Goals for?  Goals Against?     ... thanks....

From the Sunday Times:

•If England beat Slovenia on Wednesday, they will qualify for the knockout stages.

•If they lose, they are out.

•If England win and the United States win, Fabio Capello's side must win by a better margin to take top spot in the group.

•A draw will almost certainly mean England are knocked out — unless England have a high-scoring draw and the US-Algeria game is a low-scoring draw. If England's draw is two goals higher than the US's, the teams would draw lots to advance.

[Gray Fox]

My favorite player so far is Brazil's Kaka.  No matter how well he does, he always plays like Kaka.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph, I don't know what to say to you.  If soccer doesn't interest you beyond the performance of the US, then you shouldn't follow it.  The dependence of the game on one official's decisions is one of its weak points.  Perhaps I'm being naive, but I vote for incompetence over malevolence in this case.  And yes, it was gross incompetence.

Greetings Hoosier Titan.

My question is rhetorical.  How do you increase interest in the sport if the premier event of the sport becomes a major reason for fans to dislike it?

Americans hate ties in their athletic contests.

They hate poor officiating.

They want more action.

Their sense of fair play is offended by the officiating which does not call the fouls that are easily seen.

These are the issues that have not been changed since the last World Cup.  Yes, Clint Dempsey is from the strong American football town of Nacogdoches, TX, but the growth of soccer is going more slowly than the proponents of the sport, including Lamar Hunt (God rest his soul) imagined, some 43 years ago, when I was introduced to the sport.

[Hoosier Titan]

Ralph, I don't know what to say to you.  If soccer doesn't interest you beyond the performance of the US, then you shouldn't follow it.  The dependence of the game on one official's decisions is one of its weak points.  Perhaps I'm being naive, but I vote for incompetence over malevolence in this case.  And yes, it was gross incompetence.

Greetings Hoosier Titan.

My question is rhetorical.  How do you increase interest in the sport if the premier event of the sport becomes a major reason for fans to dislike it?

Americans hate ties in their athletic contests.

They hate poor officiating.

They want more action.

Their sense of fair play is offended by the officiating which does not call the fouls that are easily seen.

These are the issues that have not been changed since the last World Cup.  Yes, Clint Dempsey is from the strong American football town of Nacogdoches, TX, but the growth of soccer is going more slowly than the proponents of the sport, including Lamar Hunt (God rest his soul) imagined, some 43 years ago, when I was introduced to the sport.

Ralph,

You make some very valid points. 

I may not be the best single individual to respond to your thoughts about what Americans like and don't like, as an American Anglophile who's just returned from living in England for six months.  Personally, I think that soccer--which I still have a hard time calling it after these months--is a far, far more interesting game than American "football", which bores me to tears. 

I think that you are probably right that MOST Americans hate ties.  They don't bother me, and I don't really see a way to get around them in soccer--playing extra time doesn't usually help, and penalty kicks have their own problems.

I don't agree that there is no action in soccer (save perhaps that wretched display put on by England today).  I used to think that until I got into well-played football.  Now I see a good soccer match as something akin to a pitchers' duel in baseball--not a lot of action to the initiated, but infinitely more subtle, challenging, and rewarding to the dedicated fan.

The reliance (primarily) on a single official in soccer is problematic.  UEFA (the European governing body) experimented this year with additional officials in the "end zones".  Whether they would have helped avert the horrendous call which cost the US the win is uncertain; I believe the primary official is not required to follow the guidance of the others. 

But surely, fans of every sport hate poor officiating!  We certainly see enough of it in Division III basketball.  What about the perfect game ruined by the umpire?  And fans in every country do too--this is not just an American thing, or a soccer thing. 

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was telling you to "get lost" initially--I didn't mean it that way.  Even with flaws, soccer IS a worldwide sport.  After the England-US match, a friend from Chile IM'd me almost immediately to talk about it.  That doesn't happen in any other sport, and I love the World Cup for that reason.  I know that soccer is a hard sell in this country and I hope we can continue to have good conversations about it. 

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, no malice assumed. 

...
The reliance (primarily) on a single official in soccer is problematic.  UEFA (the European governing body) experimented this year with additional officials in the "end zones".  Whether they would have helped avert the horrendous call which cost the US the win is uncertain; I believe the primary official is not required to follow the guidance of the others. 
...

How many officials were in that UEFA crew?  Two lines, a middle and two ends?

One configuration that might work would be two sides, a middle and then the assistant middle that works the opposite diagonal from the "head middle"?  The opposite diagonal would be perpendicular to the diagonal that the "lines" are working.