World Cup and European leagues

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't know whether anyone here was thinking that the US would be better at soccer if only the best athletes played it (or continued playing it after childhood), but here's a good piece on why that's not the problem.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/id/5352349/ce/us/lebron-not-save-us-soccer?cc=5901&ver=us

It's certainly true that the best US players either play now or have played abroad, primarily in England, but also in Germany (Bradley).  There's just a world of difference in the game between the MLS and the best European leagues.  To be blunt, I always doubted whether Landon Donovan could make it in the EPL, and I was absolutely delighted to be shown I was wrong in those doubts.  I understand that Everton are desperate to have him back and I imagine some other sides would be as well.

Anyone else in withdrawal this morning?

Funny, dlip knows the semi's aren't until Tuesday but for some reason or another he kept flipping back and forth between ESPN and ABC just hoping magically a game would appear!

"I feel your pain".

But 2:30 EDT games four of the next seven days.  Then comes the REAL withdrawal!

[sac]

I don't know whether anyone here was thinking that the US would be better at soccer if only the best athletes played it (or continued playing it after childhood), but here's a good piece on why that's not the problem.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/id/5352349/ce/us/lebron-not-save-us-soccer?cc=5901&ver=us

It's certainly true that the best US players either play now or have played abroad, primarily in England, but also in Germany (Bradley).  There's just a world of difference in the game between the MLS and the best European leagues.  To be blunt, I always doubted whether Landon Donovan could make it in the EPL, and I was absolutely delighted to be shown I was wrong in those doubts.  I understand that Everton are desperate to have him back and I imagine some other sides would be as well.

Anyone else in withdrawal this morning?

With 300 million people, the US should be better at soccer.

England has 92 clubs playing in their 4 highest divisions with just under 50,000,000 people.  In the US that would translate to 552 professional or semi-professional soccer teams.  Of course this doesn't even take into the count the vast difference in overall size of clubs between the MLS and EPL etc.

We have a long way to go.

[pg04]

These World events need to be spread out slightly better in my opinion.  The Summer olympics were in 08, But now the Winter olympics were in 10 and so is the world cup.  Perhaps we can Do something in which The Summer Olympics were on year 1, the World Cup on Year 2, the Winter Olympics on Year 3, and then Year 4 we'd either have to deal with nothing or think of another world sporting event worth the billing of the other 3 events... Or, do as Bill Simmons suggests on ESPN and make each of these events occur every 3 years. 

[Hoosier Titan]

These World events need to be spread out slightly better in my opinion.  The Summer olympics were in 08, But now the Winter olympics were in 10 and so is the world cup.  Perhaps we can Do something in which The Summer Olympics were on year 1, the World Cup on Year 2, the Winter Olympics on Year 3, and then Year 4 we'd either have to deal with nothing or think of another world sporting event worth the billing of the other 3 events... Or, do as Bill Simmons suggests on ESPN and make each of these events occur every 3 years. 

Well, other regions have competitions in the "off" two years in soccer.  There are the European Championships, for example; the last one was in 2008. England's underperformance that time, culminating (or perhaps I mean the exact opposite) in a loss at Wembley to Croatia, led to the dismissal of Steve McClaren as coach and quieted calls for an English coach for a while.  They didn't even qualify for the tournament (is there a theme here?).  It was still exciting, with Turkey and Russia playing fantastic, uninhibited, attacking football.  The final came down to Spain, looking much as they do now, against an elderly, slow, negative Italy, and the winner in a 1-0 game was scored by an in-form Fernando Torres (and please don't judge him by this World Cup--he was hurt most of last season).

I don't know if CONCACAF and/or CONMEBOL have anything similar.  I think a Tournament of the Americas would be fantastic.  It would give the US another good chance (beyond friendlies) to play against top competition.

Anyway, qualifiers for the Euros 2012 start up in the fall, right along with the resumption of the professional leagues.

[Mr. Ypsi]

These World events need to be spread out slightly better in my opinion.  The Summer olympics were in 08, But now the Winter olympics were in 10 and so is the world cup.  Perhaps we can Do something in which The Summer Olympics were on year 1, the World Cup on Year 2, the Winter Olympics on Year 3, and then Year 4 we'd either have to deal with nothing or think of another world sporting event worth the billing of the other 3 events... Or, do as Bill Simmons suggests on ESPN and make each of these events occur every 3 years. 

Well, other regions have competitions in the "off" two years in soccer.  There are the European Championships, for example; the last one was in 2008. England's underperformance that time, culminating (or perhaps I mean the exact opposite) in a loss at Wembley to Croatia, led to the dismissal of Steve McClaren as coach and quieted calls for an English coach for a while.  They didn't even qualify for the tournament (is there a theme here?).  It was still exciting, with Turkey and Russia playing fantastic, uninhibited, attacking football.  The final came down to Spain, looking much as they do now, against an elderly, slow, negative Italy, and the winner in a 1-0 game was scored by an in-form Fernando Torres (and please don't judge him by this World Cup--he was hurt most of last season).

I don't know if CONCACAF and/or CONMEBOL have anything similar.  I think a Tournament of the Americas would be fantastic.  It would give the US another good chance (beyond friendlies) to play against top competition.

Anyway, qualifiers for the Euros 2012 start up in the fall, right along with the resumption of the professional leagues.

And let us not forget the Confederations Cup, just last year, where the US shocked the world by beating Spain and leading much of the way against Brazil in the title game.

[sac]

These World events need to be spread out slightly better in my opinion.  The Summer olympics were in 08, But now the Winter olympics were in 10 and so is the world cup.  Perhaps we can Do something in which The Summer Olympics were on year 1, the World Cup on Year 2, the Winter Olympics on Year 3, and then Year 4 we'd either have to deal with nothing or think of another world sporting event worth the billing of the other 3 events... Or, do as Bill Simmons suggests on ESPN and make each of these events occur every 3 years. 

Well, other regions have competitions in the "off" two years in soccer.  There are the European Championships, for example; the last one was in 2008. England's underperformance that time, culminating (or perhaps I mean the exact opposite) in a loss at Wembley to Croatia, led to the dismissal of Steve McClaren as coach and quieted calls for an English coach for a while.  They didn't even qualify for the tournament (is there a theme here?).  It was still exciting, with Turkey and Russia playing fantastic, uninhibited, attacking football.  The final came down to Spain, looking much as they do now, against an elderly, slow, negative Italy, and the winner in a 1-0 game was scored by an in-form Fernando Torres (and please don't judge him by this World Cup--he was hurt most of last season).

I don't know if CONCACAF and/or CONMEBOL have anything similar.  I think a Tournament of the Americas would be fantastic.  It would give the US another good chance (beyond friendlies) to play against top competition.

Anyway, qualifiers for the Euros 2012 start up in the fall, right along with the resumption of the professional leagues.

CONCACAF has the Gold Cup, our version of the Euro championships.  Its held on the odd years.

http://www.goldcup.org/page/GoldCup/Home/0,,12802,00.html

After Mexico and the United States, there isn't much.  Mexico has won 5, US 4 of the 10 Gold Cups.  Somehow Canada won one.  The US has hosted or shared hosting for all 10 and with Mexico twice. 

The winner has sometimes been invited to participate in the Copa America, CONMEBAL's 'Euro Championship' which is actually older than the Euro's.  Judging by its history, its held whenever they feel like getting together for one.   Once it was held every year, then every 2 years, then 4, then 2, and the last two every three.

[Hoosier Titan]

CONCACAF has the Gold Cup, our version of the Euro championships.  Its held on the odd years.

http://www.goldcup.org/page/GoldCup/Home/0,,12802,00.html

After Mexico and the United States, there isn't much.  Mexico has won 5, US 4 of the 10 Gold Cups.  Somehow Canada won one.  The US has hosted or shared hosting for all 10 and with Mexico twice. 

The winner has sometimes been invited to participate in the Copa America, CONMEBAL's 'Euro Championship' which is actually older than the Euro's.  Judging by its history, its held whenever they feel like getting together for one.   Once it was held every year, then every 2 years, then 4, then 2, and the last two every three.

So the Copa America is what I was thinking of.  Brazil and Argentina probably aren't that excited about it right now, though. 
Funny how quickly it went from a South American World Cup back to a European one.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Raise your hand if you thought Uruguay would be the last South American team in the WC.

[Hoosier Titan]

Raise your hand if you thought Uruguay would be the last South American team in the WC.

I'd be sitting on my hands if I didn't need them to type!  I'll bet a lot of people are saying "Tell me again why Forlan couldn't make it in the EPL?"  I'd certainly give him a go if I were running a club and he wanted to leave Atletico.

[Ralph Turner]

Raise your hand if you thought Uruguay would be the last South American team in the WC.

I'd be sitting on my hands if I didn't need them to type!  I'll bet a lot of people are saying "Tell me again why Forlan couldn't make it in the EPL?"  I'd certainly give him a go if I were running a club and he wanted to leave Atletico.

How many of us are looking at this bracket and wondering if the US EVER has as favorable a draw to make the semis again!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Raise your hand if you thought Uruguay would be the last South American team in the WC.

I'd be sitting on my hands if I didn't need them to type!  I'll bet a lot of people are saying "Tell me again why Forlan couldn't make it in the EPL?"  I'd certainly give him a go if I were running a club and he wanted to leave Atletico.

How many of us are looking at this bracket and wondering if the US EVER has as favorable a draw to make the semis again!

I believe that would be just about as unanimous as the lack of raised hands!

Though EVER is a long time - I just doubt it will happen again in my lifetime.  On the other hand, I have hope (though not expectation) that the US will get to the point in my lifetime where the semis (and beyond) are a realistic objective without a favorable draw.  In the Confederations Cup they made the semis (can't recall who they had to beat), then became the first team to beat Spain in ages, then led Brazil most of the final.  I hope I live to see that sort of thing become the norm!

[Hoosier Titan]

Well, some justice has been done, anyway...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5340136/ce/us/referees-botched-calls-removed-world-cup-list?cc=5901&ver=us

[sac]

Raise your hand if you thought Uruguay would be the last South American team in the WC.

I'd be sitting on my hands if I didn't need them to type!  I'll bet a lot of people are saying "Tell me again why Forlan couldn't make it in the EPL?"  I'd certainly give him a go if I were running a club and he wanted to leave Atletico.

How many of us are looking at this bracket and wondering if the US EVER has as favorable a draw to make the semis again!

When the draw came out, most people had the US pegged at #2 in the group which meant a date with Germany in the round of 16.

Its not our fault England can't get out of its own way. 

IF the group had gone the way it was supposed to the US would have been in the bracket with Germany then Argentina, then Spain.

Also the group of Uruguay, France, Mexico and South Africa was considered pretty strong until France imploded on itself.  Uruaguay is/was a darkhorse but many of the so called experts thought they could do some damage with their 3 strikers....and do some damage they have.

The other team that vastly disappointed was Nigeria who would have been Uruguay's round of 16 opponent.  The US bracket looks easier because some supposed powers (France/Nigeria) didn't show up. 

But you're right Ralph, it will be a long time before the US gets something that looked this good on paper.  I suppose England probably looks at that half of the bracket and says the same things.

[Gray Fox]

Well, some justice has been done, anyway...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5340136/ce/us/referees-botched-calls-removed-world-cup-list?cc=5901&ver=us

The only way they would know these things is to replay the games.  I guess they think technology is good enough in these circumstances.

World Rankings
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html#confederation=0&rank=193

[Mr. Ypsi]

Officiating MAY have affected yet another game (though this was not a CLEAR error).  Holland's second goal should probably have been disallowed for offsides - not by the goal-scorer but for a teammate who was clearly 'part of the play' (he was between the scorer and the keeper, and the ball missed him by inches).  Since Uruguay lost only 3-2, allowing or disallowing that goal was clearly a game changer.