World Cup and European leagues

[Mr. Ypsi]

http://dodgyatbest.blogspot.com/2010/07/netherlands-3-2-uruguay-healthy-doses.html

Perhaps the officiating mattered even more than I thought (I hadn't seen the first half).

[Hoosier Titan]

Halftime for Spain-Germany:  Spain needs to keep going at Boatang, who should have a yellow by now.  They need to keep alert at the beginning of the second half and just keep doing what they've been doing.  Good stuff but it's crazy making.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think Germany REALLY missed Mueller today - that bogus yellow card may have changed the WC final!

This is NOT meant to take anything away from Spain - they played outstanding football.

[Hoosier Titan]

I think Germany REALLY missed Mueller today - that bogus yellow card may have changed the WC final!

This is NOT meant to take anything away from Spain - they played outstanding football.

Maybe..possibly...but that's stringing together too many conditionals for me to agree with, considering how very well Spain played.  The defense was absolutely outstanding.  And if Pedro (who was otherwise excellent) had passed the ball to a wide-open Torres, the game would have been over.

The winning goal on a set piece by a center back--very un-Spanish, but very convincing.  I had a Spain-Brazil final, and instead it's Spain and the team that beat Brazil.  My third and fourth place picks...well, that's another story.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think the Spanish coach agreed about Pedro, as (despite an otherwise good game) he was subbed out almost immediately after that act of selfishness.   I'd agree with the commentator who said that if Germany found a way to tie the game, Pedro would be the goat of all goats in Spain!

I agree that Spain deserved the win today (and am picking them to make Holland 0-3 in Cup finals), but I can't help wondering what that bogus card to Mueller might have meant.  Germany just didn't have the blitzkrieg they showed against England and Argentina.  While that is probably largely due to Spain, I can't help wondering if it was also no Mueller.

FIFA has got to return to wiping out yellows after group play (and perhaps also the quarters) - losing a star for the semis because of two yellows (at least one bogus) in FIVE games is just ridiculously overly harsh.

[Hoosier Titan]

I agree that Spain deserved the win today (and am picking them to make Holland 0-3 in Cup finals), but I can't help wondering what that bogus card to Mueller might have meant.  Germany just didn't have the blitzkrieg they showed against England and Argentina.  While that is probably largely due to Spain, I can't help wondering if it was also no Mueller.

FIFA has got to return to wiping out yellows after group play (and perhaps also the quarters) - losing a star for the semis because of two yellows (at least one bogus) in FIVE games is just ridiculously overly harsh.

I didn't see much of the Germany-Argentina match, but I did see the first German goal and my comment at the time was "terrible marking!"  England--well, they turned out to be one of the weakest sides in the entire tournament, for reasons that will be debated endlessly in the press, and Trouble Boy John Terry, the leading center back, was one of the weaknesses. 

On the other hand, the quality of the Spanish defense is one of their greatest strengths.  They aren't pretty like the strikers and midfielders, but, boy, do they get the job done.  To me it was poetic justice that Puyol got the winning goal.  (It was also nice that the announcers agreed with me that he looks like a bass player from an 80's hair band!)  So, I agree that the card policy is probably harsh, and it's too bad for Germany that they were without one of their scorers, but great teams find a way to make things happen.  I don't think we really disagree here.

[sac]

What made the Spain goal even more amazing, was for most of the game they had played the corners short vs the much taller Germany......then BANG!

[ECSUalum]

Germany                                      Spain

5 Shots                                           13
6 Corner kicks                                  7
0 Yellow cards                                  0
0 Second yellow card and red card        0
0 Red Cards                                     0
49% Possession (%)                        51%

Time of possession surprises me, as I thought Spain controlled the ball much better than the Germans and dominated the match.
I agree with above comments re Mueller, as he may have changed the complexion of the match.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm astounded at the final time of possession stat - it sure felt like 65% Spain!

[ECSUalum]

Quoted from msn.FoxSports.com:

Thomas Mueller is the German MVP

Often, teams discover who their most important player is when they are not available. Can anyone doubt tonight that the soft yellow card shown to Thomas Mueller in the quarterfinal win over Argentina wasn't the most important moment of this match tonight? Without Mueller, Schweinsteiger and Mesut Ozil were unable to impose themselves on the match while limiting Lukas Podolski and Miroslav Klose. It turns out that Mueller's ability to create out wide in midfield as well as make those dangerous, space-creating runs into the attacking areas, was the key to what made Joachim Loew's team truly tick. With Mueller this might have been a very different game; without him Germany turned out to be quite ordinary. Piotr Trochowski proved inadequate in Mueller's spot and while Toni Kroos did force the save of the match from Iker Casillas when he replaced Trochowski, there was still no way to make up for Mueller's absence.

[sac]

On the other hand........you have to wonder if Mueller plays, does Spain go with Torres and Villa up front instead of just Villa?

I know Torres has been nursing an injury, but I didn't here anything about him not being able to play longer than 20 or 30 minutes.

[BoBo]

Paul the Octopus picked Germany/Spain correctly. In fact, he was 6 for 6 picking Germany's WC games this year, including the Serbia upset!! As a result of picking Spain correctly, Paul might end up on the dinner table!!

[ScotsFan]

I agree that Spain deserved the win today (and am picking them to make Holland 0-3 in Cup finals), but I can't help wondering what that bogus card to Mueller might have meant.  Germany just didn't have the blitzkrieg they showed against England and Argentina.  While that is probably largely due to Spain, I can't help wondering if it was also no Mueller.

FIFA has got to return to wiping out yellows after group play (and perhaps also the quarters) - losing a star for the semis because of two yellows (at least one bogus) in FIVE games is just ridiculously overly harsh.

I didn't see much of the Germany-Argentina match, but I did see the first German goal and my comment at the time was "terrible marking!" 

Same could be said of Puyol's goal where he ran in from outside of the 18 unmarked for his flying header.  Spain definitely caught the Germans napping on that corner as they had been going with short corners all match long and then... SURPRISE!

...and it's too bad for Germany that they were without one of their scorers, but great teams find a way to make things happen.  I don't think we really disagree here.

We're not just talking about any player.  Mueller was BY FAR Germany's MVP of this tournament.  I would liken it to Spain having to play without David Villa.  I doubt, hypothetically speaking, if Spain lost a match without the services of Villa you would be dismissing it as though they should be good enough to overcome the loss of a player that has so much of an impact on goalscoring for Spain.  I mean, Mueller scored 4 goals and assisted on 3 others in just 5 matches in this World Cup.  That is 7 out of the 13 total goals Germany scored in the WC.  Mueller was not only tied with the team lead in goals scored, but he also was tied for the team lead in assists as well.  Taking a player away that had a direct hand in over 50% of your goal scoring is pretty damn tough to overcome in my book. 

Spain was the better team yesterday and certainly deserved the win.  Their experience was the difference in my opinion.  But to just act as though Germany should be good enough to overcome the loss of their MVP and to act as though Spain did not benefit BIG TIME from Mueller's absense is being a bit shortsighted if you ask me. 

[Hoosier Titan]

We're not just talking about any player.  Mueller was BY FAR Germany's MVP of this tournament.  I would liken it to Spain having to play without David Villa.  I doubt, hypothetically speaking, if Spain lost a match without the services of Villa you would be dismissing it as though they should be good enough to overcome the loss of a player that has so much of an impact on goalscoring for Spain.  I mean, Mueller scored 4 goals and assisted on 3 others in just 5 matches in this World Cup.  That is 7 out of the 13 total goals Germany scored in the WC.  Mueller was not only tied with the team lead in goals scored, but he also was tied for the team lead in assists as well.  Taking a player away that had a direct hand in over 50% of your goal scoring is pretty damn tough to overcome in my book. 

Spain was the better team yesterday and certainly deserved the win.  Their experience was the difference in my opinion.  But to just act as though Germany should be good enough to overcome the loss of their MVP and to act as though Spain did not benefit BIG TIME from Mueller's absense is being a bit shortsighted if you ask me. 

I really don't mean to be dismissive of Mueller, and I never said that Spain did not benefit from his absence.  For that matter, every team that Spain has faced has benefited from Fernando Torres' lack of match fitness.  David Villa really was not much of a factor in yesterday's match, and for that the German defense deserves a great deal of credit.  The goal came from perhaps the player we would have least expected, and that was what I was thinking of when I said great teams find a way to make things happen.  I agree with you that the lesser experience of the young Germans showed.  They will be a force to be reckoned with--they are a force to be reckoned with. 

Should the rules for suspensions after yellow cards be reviewed?  Very likely.  Should all suspensions be done away with?  I don't think so, because there are dirty players in the game.  I am NOT saying that Mueller is one of them--he isn't.

It seems that you agree with me that the better team won yesterday, and I agree with you that the rules should be reviewed. Again, I don't see what the argument is.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Np argument with me, as long as you're willing to entertain the possibility that bad officiating MAY have affected who plays in the finals!

Spain is certainly a worthy finalist.  Germany MAY have been an even more worthy finalist.  We'll never know, due to yet another officiating (and rules) flub.

I've certainly enjoyed the Cup, and have no major qualms about the finals, but FIFA has done their best (worst?) to ruin it.

But ban the vuvuzelas!!  Go back to drums and cheering!!