FB: Midwest Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Another salient example, the 2012 playoffs:
http://www.d3football.com/top25/2012/week11

Remember that Bethel played Concordia-Chicago. In our poll, Bethel was 21 and Concordia unranked.
In the AFCA Top 25, Concordia was 18 and Bethel 23.

Concordia, the home team, lost to Bethel.

[Gaegerlaw75]

Boy is it fun to see people with an extraordinary amount of DIII football knowledge and passion debate a topic.  I truly think that everyone who has posted has made solid points.  I challenge any D1 board to have an entire conversation without some idiot screaming Roll Tide! and not making one solid point.  Kudos to all of you.

That said, I am now going to make the somewhat useless comparison to the Div. 1 AP top 25 and how that poll is set up.  In analyzing that poll it is clear to see that teams from marginal conferences get recognition for doing "all that they can with the games on their schedule" in order to crack the top 25.  The team I equate this year's Carroll to is Marshall.  In the AP poll Marshall is ranked 23rd and has an overall 8-0 record. They have dominated C-USA, which is a mid-major conference with several automatic bowl bids.  However, when looking at their schedule (Miami OH, Akron, Rhode Island, Ohio, Old Dominion, Mid Tenn State, FAU and FIU), it is pretty weak.  They have blown out each team they have faced, and done the best they can with the schedule they play... and thus the AP has awarded them for doing so.  However, I was in Lexington Kentucky last week for the Miss. St. v. UK game and I can tell you this... Marshall is a .500 team at best in the SEC.... At Best.... Furthermore, I think that if they were to play either USC, Wisconsin or Stanford (the teams who are in the AP "others receiving votes" category), they would likely lose at least 2 of 3 in those games.  However, it is clear that the AP recognizes the communal nature of Div. 1 football, and the idea that dominance in a sanctioned conference in Division 1 athletics deserves a nod as the nations best.   

So, I guess my overall point is that I am just trying to find any logic I can to get my 7-0 Pioneers some recognition and I think that if the Associated Press can do it, so can D3football.com.  Ranking systems are  imperfect, but I think that one main element to them is a human one, that recognizes the accomplishments of teams playing well in a league.

Note:  I know that in 99.9% of circumstances there is a fundamental flaw in comparing DIII and D1 football (for better or worse... half of the big ten sent less players to NFL rosters last year than teams from Div. III) , but when it comes to national rankings I think the comparison isn't so bad.

[Pat Coleman]

Except there are only half as many teams in D-I FBS so it's easier for Marshall to get into that poll.

[hazzben]

Except there are only half as many teams in D-I FBS so it's easier for Marshall to get into that poll.

Exactly what I was going to say.

In terms of comparison, it's like saying Carroll is a top 50 team. If we had a poll like that and they weren't ranked, you'd have a legit beef.

[AO]

Except there are only half as many teams in D-I FBS so it's easier for Marshall to get into that poll.

I would say there is also more parity in D1.  The gulf between the top 10% and the bottom 25% of D3 seems insurmountable, whereas the bottom 10% of D1 still has 85 full scholarship athletes who can play physically with a top 25 team.

[scottie]

While I wasn't defending or pointing a finger at either side of the debate in my ghost post, one researchable request (by someone who has more access to the numbers than I do....Pat??) was:  How many undefeated teams remain in D3 this season, and how many of those are not included in the Top 25 or Others Receiving Votes (ORVs)? 

Now, scottie, review and hit "post." 

[02 Warhawk]

While I wasn't defending or pointing a finger at either side of the debate in my ghost post, one researchable request (by someone who has more access to the numbers than I do....Pat??) was:  How many undefeated teams remain in D3 this season, and how many of those are not included in the Top 25 or Others Receiving Votes (ORVs)? 

Now, scottie, review and hit "post."

Undefeated and not in the top 25

MIT
Amherst (receiving three votes)
St. Scholastica
Carroll

[Pat Coleman]

This is off the top of my head but I believe we're talking about Carroll, MIT and St. Scholastica as unbeaten-but-unvoted teams.  Believe Amherst has a vote or two.

[02 Warhawk]

This is off the top of my head but I believe we're talking about Carroll, MIT and St. Scholastica as unbeaten-but-unvoted teams.  Believe Amherst has a vote or two.

Impressive....I had to look it up. 

[scottie]

Thanks.....interesting. 

Pat: Are you dressing up as Ken Jennings for Halloween for the 10th year in a row?   

[Pat Coleman]

This is off the top of my head but I believe we're talking about Carroll, MIT and St. Scholastica as unbeaten-but-unvoted teams.  Believe Amherst has a vote or two.

Impressive....I had to look it up. 

That's alright -- the topic has been raised a few times in the comments on Top 25 pages.

I'm spending my Halloween at the Millsaps-Berry game in Georgia.

[hazzben]

Come one, come all!

Looks like we're the last region to get one of these started up. So, I'll be happy to organize one if we can get at least 10 reliable voters. We can use D3football.com's West Region team list as eligible teams to consider. I'm hoping to get two or three people from each conference to participate, if possible. With no more than one representative/fan from each school.....just to have a fair and unbiased poll as possible. Since we're halfway through this season already, I will probably won't start until the 2015 season.

This could be fun, considering (as we all know) the West is where the power conferences in DIII reside   

So if you're fan of a West region team (MIAC, WIAC, MWC, IIAC, SCIAC, UMAC, or NWC) and interested in doing this next year, you can send me a message or sign up here:

1. 02 Warhawk (UWW - WIAC)
2. Hazzben (Bethel - MIAC)
3. MasterJedi (UWW - WIAC)
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Here's your chance to see Carroll ranked 

[Pat Coleman]

That's true -- and with a win Saturday, Carroll would surely be in the NCAA's West Region ranking as well.

[scottie]

It should probably be a voter from either SNC or MC, if we want to go with the safe odds.....   

[fulbakdad]

MIT
Amherst (receiving three votes)
St. Scholastica
Carroll

And the three voters above should have their voting privileges revoked for ignorance!