FB: Midwest Conference

[gbpuckfan]

Of note... SNC's non-con opponent the next two years will be (currently) #15 St. Thomas. Coming on the heels of Wartburg, and UWW in 04 and 05, SNC isn't ducking good competition.

I'm not sure how beneficial it would be for the Illinois-based Midwest Conference teams to play the WIAC teams. Are they in the same region? If not, that really takes three MWC teams out of the mix - and the best one (until they play SNC!  ) in Monmouth.

And, as much as I'd like to see MWC teams play the WIAC teams, it shouldn't be because it's a favor to the budgets of the state schools.

[coco]

BINGO!

Pat and puck got it. We can respect Monmouth and we do. They are a good team and are ranked. But we also have to recognize the amount of research done by others on all conferences.

I think the final points made by Pat and supported by puckfan covers it.

GO WARTBURG!

GO GREEN KNIGHTS

As a frequent reader of this board, I think Pat and puck explain it well. You have to take the past into consideration, and the strength of the other conferences.
As for scheduling non-conference games, you folks have a gold mine of possibilities out there. Maybe you do need to be more selective to build up your reputation. On our little west coast island, the pickings are mighty slim and we have to scramble for anyone who will play us at all, which often means huge travel expenses.

Regarding ONU's losses, one was to MUC. According to the front page this last game was played after the death of the dad of one of their starters as the dad had a heart attack on his way to the game? That had to have a huge effect on the kids, and may have been taken into consideration as well.

[MWCfan787]

I like to idea of MWC teams playing CCIW teams more often.  Scottie said he heard something about Ill Wesleyan-Monmouth for next year.  IW has been competitive in that conf. recently, hopefully they stay on the rise and give Monmouth a good test.  Would be more excited to see them play Wheaton-N Central- Augustana though.  The WIAC is what it is.  The St. Thomas-St. Norbert series will be a nice one.

Don't want people to think the MWC is a bunch of whiners, but there is as much enthusiasm in this conference as any d3 conference.  Just wanna make sure our voice is heard.

coco, I'm really sorry to hear about ONU's tragedy.  It's a reach though to assume many voters were aware of that info....maybe just a few.

[Pat Coleman]

Any voter who read our front page on Saturday was aware of it. However, I did not make it part of the packet of info that our voters received.

[oldnuthin]

I don't have a problem with scheduling those games, I just don't think a series like that would ever happen because of the politics involved. Why should the sweet, innocent, small private college have to risk getting mauled by the big, mean, evil public university, etc. etc. I think it's silly and unfortunate but that's how it works in many cases; and it's not just a MWC thing. Top to bottom the CCIW would be a more competitive series of games vs. the WIAC but my theory is why that hasn't happened either.

Beyond that I will speculate a little bit. Would we actually see Whitewater vs. Monmouth or Point vs. St. Norbert ?? Probably not. Teams at the top of the WIAC have an eye on Salem every year so why risk a D3 loss that might keep you out of the play offs. Instead we probably get Whitewater vs. Lake Forest and Point vs. Lawrence.

Why not kick Superior in the pants and have them get a football program started, then you've only got 2 non-conference games to fill. In the mean time Beloit has Blackburn the next 2 years but if Whitewater wanted to buy them out I'm sure Beloit would give them a game.

Considering Blackburn gave up football at the end of last year, I don;t think there needs to be a buy out by UWW to schedule Beloit. . As to the argument about the rankings, wait about 6 weeks and Monmouth can show people what they are made of. I have seeen Monmouth play and other than the last 2 minutes of their final playoff game last year, I think they stack up very well against anyone in the CCIW.

[The Roop]

My bad on that but even more amazing is that they've updated their media guide already. It seems Whitewater will need to buy out the University of Chicago in order to schedule Beloit the next two years.

[Mr. Ypsi]

My bad on that but even more amazing is that they've updated their media guide already. It seems Whitewater will need to buy out the University of Chicago in order to schedule Beloit the next two years.

OMG - UWW vs. UC??!

I strongly suspect UWW could sit EVERY starter and still win by any score their conscience allowed.

[gbpuckfan]

One more thought...

Part of this is the conference's fault, I think. Perhaps not directly and perhaps not intentionally, but certainly by structure. See if you can follow along with this thought...

- The conference currently has 10 teams. It plays a true round-robin, so that's 9 games, leaving just one non-conference game. Very fair when it comes to determining a conference champion, to be sure.

- The conference used to have 12 teams (before the Coe/Cornell departure). Then, it played in two divisions of six: 5 games in the division and 2 games vs. other division. That way it took 6 years to complete home & home vs. all teams in the other division.

- That allowed more non-con games. Which could be very good from a strength of schedule point of view.

Take SNC in 1989 for example. SNC lost to Illinois Benedictine and UW-Stevens Point, and beat D2 Michigan Tech. It earned an at-large bid for the playoffs, which was a rarity for the MWC - it just didn't happen in those pre-AQ days.

In 1990 and 1991, SNC's non-opponents were UW-Oshkosh, Michigan Tech and Drake. Yes, I know (I was there), they all lost all 6 of those non-con games in 90 & 91 - that's not the point. The point is, they had the opportunity - and used it - to schedule strong competition, even playing up division-wise.

But now, MWC schools couldn't schedule that quantity of non-conference competition. Do most of the other conferences only have 1 non-con game?

It certainly is easier to schedule this way, because you just have one game to find. But, for the elite teams (i.e. Monmouth & SNC, plus perhaps Ripon right now), how much better would be it for their chance to get a second conference playoff bid if they could play some better teams?

I know it's not right to complain without offering an alternative, but I admit I'm a bit lost on something better.

I'm not necessarily advocating a less-than-round robin. (It bugs me how men's Big Ten hoops does that, for example). And maybe the conference isn't interested in getting back to 12 teams, or having the "issue" of different teams playing different inter-division teams, or having a conference title game to give another team another loss.

That said, finding a way to have more opportunities to schedule tougher teams might help the conference's profile. And the bottom feeders should always be able to find other bottom feeders to play, I think.

Sorry, that was longer than I wanted it to be...

[tm343407]

Adding another two teams would be nice. Not sure who though. Why wouldn't the University of Chicago want to come back? It should help save money on travel expenses?

(This is nothing more than a conversation piece)

[gbpuckfan]

Adding another two teams would be nice. Not sure who though. Why wouldn't the University of Chicago want to come back? It should help save money on travel expenses?

(This is nothing more than a conversation piece)

Agreed - as conversation piece only; not meant to incite a conference war...

I didn't realize UofC played in a four-team conference for football. And they were a longtime MWC member. Would be nice.

Perhaps one of the Northern Athletic Conference teams with football would be a nice fit geographically... (Lakeland in Sheboygan, Rockford or Wisconsin Lutheran in Milwaukee) ?

[Redmen09]

I believe Ripon plays Wisco Lutheran for their non-conference games coming up in the future.  A bit of a step down from UWO so i hope it doesnt lower Ripon's level of play, like what i think happened to a MWC team recently (hint: Carroll playing North Park).  Is it foreshadowing a future MWC opponent?? ??

[Redmen09]

Or instead of leaving the option to add more non-conference opponents couldnt the MWC just add stronger football (or overall) programs to the conference (ie: Carthage, U of Chicago, or Concordia (Wi), or any other C school) in some sort of a realignment. 

OR
Every MWC team could play how they are now (with the exception of LU ) and once the MWC gets two bids and makes some noise in the playoffs on a consistent basis. then we wont have to do all of this speculation and the MWC will have gained its own respect as a football conference

i dont know about anyone else but i am excited for the games this saturday

[The Roop]

I think we might be attacking the problem by the wrong end. The NCAA picks the teams and makes the brackets, however, they pick those teams based on the selection criteria determined by the D3 membership itself. So instead of changing the conference to better fit the system, why not change the system and go back to no AQs.

This doesn't need to happen in all sports, just football where the at large bids are too few and far between. The day may come when the entire field is Pool A only and that's not exactly fair. And if the NAIA merger talks have anything behind them that day is closer than most people realize. Pool C criteria for everybody will mean that some conferences get multiple bids and other conferences will do without. Well, those conferences simply need to get better.

The regional representation/equity for all philosophy behind the current selection process keeps some very very good teams out every year. The field will never expand beyond 32 teams but lets try to get the best 32 in. I'd even be willing to split the difference between Pool C only and regional equity and limit conferences to no more than 2 bids.

[gbpuckfan]

Roop ... interesting thought, but unlikely to happen, IMO.

The NCAA's goal is to have a national tournament. That's the reason behind the AQs.

We go round and round on this in the D3 hockey world, where there's just 11 teams in the tourney and a big schism between east and west. And it always seems to come back to the fact that the NCAA doesn't necessarily want the best x number of teams in the tournament, they want a national tournament.

Look at men's hoops... the winner of the Atlantic Sun Conference isn't there because it's one of the best 65 teams in the nation, it's there because it's a national tournament.

While others may not disagree with your premise, I think it would be a seismic shift by the NCAA to change course in that direction.

[scottie]

Here's how the MWC will gain the respect it needs:

Step One - Monmouth goes through the MWC undefeated and gets to host more playoff games.

Step Two - SNC or Beloit (the reamining two of the "Scottie's Three to Watch" [trademark pending]) finish the year with one loss and squeak out a playoff bid. 

Step Three - Monmouth and SNC or Beloit meet in the second or third round of the playoffs and duke it out in a 5 overtime thriller, won by the good guys.

Step Four - The Scots slide through the rest of the playoffs like poop through a goose and bring the trophy back to the Maple City. 

Any questions?