FB: Midwest Conference

[Maverick]

Continuity!  http://monmouthscots.com/news/2015/1/12/FB_0112154834.aspx

Well said scottie!  Now we just gotta get it added to the Coaching Carousel page.

[Pat Coleman]

Continuity!  http://monmouthscots.com/news/2015/1/12/FB_0112154834.aspx

Well said scottie!  Now we just gotta get it added to the Coaching Carousel page.

Little overloaded with basketball this time of year but will do it as quickly as possible.

[Maverick]

Continuity!  http://monmouthscots.com/news/2015/1/12/FB_0112154834.aspx

Well said scottie!  Now we just gotta get it added to the Coaching Carousel page.

Little overloaded with basketball this time of year but will do it as quickly as possible.

I know PC.  Just felt the need to channel my inner f-dad and give you a bit of a hard time since we haven't heard from him in awhile.

[fulbakdad]

Mav, did you miss me?

I only poke at PC when his pole puts teams from my local league that doesn't ever play out of their back yard into (or close to) the top 25.

Besides, I'm retired, don't you remember?

[scottie]

I think you mean POLL.  This isn't THAT type of chat room.....   

[grboob]

Scottie,  You could have said to F......back  "Baby come back, blame it all on me, I miss you and can't live without you"

[Maverick]

Mav, did you miss me?

I only poke at PC when his pole puts teams from my local league that doesn't ever play out of their back yard into (or close to) the top 25.

Besides, I'm retired, don't you remember?

Who doesn't miss f-dad when you're not around the board?  And do you really expect us to believe you're gonna stay retired??

I think you mean POLL.  This isn't THAT type of chat room.....   

On second thought, maybe he actually is retired and has been filling his days by spending too much time in "different" chat rooms...

[scottie]

Alright, alright..... I suppose we shouldn't pile on if F-Dad isn't around 100% of his previous schedule to defend himself.   

[TwoArmedScot]

Maybe, just maybe, Macalester didn't "PICK AND CHOOSE" a conference based on how "COMPETITIVE IT COULD BE".  Maybe, just maybe, the school made the decision to align itself with more similar, like minded institutions based on things like mission statements, admissions policies, and financial aid policies.

I call BS on this. If that was the case, why are you playing the rest of your sports in a conference that is such an odd fit?! 

You guys went to the MWC for competitive reasons in football. Fine, I think the MIAC should have given the rest of your sports the boot as well. And, FWIW, I don't want MAC to come back in football. Having 10 teams in the MIAC sponsoring football (one of them being MAC) won't help the top teams get at large bids for the playoffs as it will hurt SOS. I'd rather be able to schedule another quality non-con game.

Now I think some on the MIAC boards want to have their cake and eat it too.  They can say what a disgrace it is that Macalester is picking and choosing the sports to play in-conference, yet know that Mac's departure from the conference would result in a severe dropping off for the conference's academic profile.  Here's a question for you though:  would you rather see a healthy Macalester football team in the MIAC, with 70ish members on the team, or do you want the team that left the MIAC with 30ish players that you used as your personal footstool?  In-conference parity is something for which to strive, and having a competitive Macalester football team is in the best interest of the entire MIAC.  Despite this, it doesn't sound like you even want us back as a football member anyway.  The same people who bemoan our "picking and choosing" similarly bemoan the prospects of a nine-game conference schedule. 

I don't think it'd precipitate a 'severe drop off.' Contrary to the high minded attitudes of MAC and Carleton grads, the other MIAC institutions are very highly thought of. If MAC left, there'd be plenty of very good schools in the MIAC and Carleton as an elite school. Contrary to what you might think, some of us went to other MIAC schools despite getting accepted to schools with better academic reps and tougher admissions standards than MAC or Carleton. 

Again, I just don't want MAC to come back in football. 9 conference games each year pulls everyone's SoS back towards .500. SO, unless that school you're adding is a really good team, it doesn't benefit the other schools.

As for parity, I don't want conference parity. I want excellence and parity, we have the former and are increasingly improving the latter. There are plenty of conferences with remarkable parity and little quality. If I have to choose between the two, give me excellence.

Again, my beef isn't MAC leaving, it's that they stayed in the other sports and then guys like TAS are trying to tell us that it wasn't for competitive reasons. I think right now we have the worst possible option: MAC competing in a conference for football that isn't the MIAC. If that's the direction they want to go, then move all your sports. Or fully rejoin the MIAC. But if I'm honest, I'd rather have them leave all together. It'd help the basketball and baseball schedules as well. And we'd still retain Carleton, a better academic institution for our 'profile.'

That said, good luck today against UWW. Having played and coached in the NCAA playoffs, it's a great experience and I'm genuinely happy for the MAC players and coaches, who had nothing to do whatsoever with where MAC is currently playing.

Hey Hazzben,

You want to claim BS?  If Macalester wanted to pick a conference for football based on competitive reasons...why wouldn't they have picked the UMAC?  They could have easily competed in that conference?

Also, have you ever thought of what it would be like for programs like basketball or baseball to compete in a conference other than the MIAC?  Imagine the amount of travel...and expenses accrued for programs like that to play in the MWC? 

In football?  Not that big of a deal as it's 5...maybe 6...games a year to travel overnight and pay for hotel rooms and meals.  In men's/women's basketball, baseball/softball, or men's/women's soccer?  Might be a little different story, no?

Football is a totally different beast.  What does it take to be competitive in football in the MIAC...vs...what does it take to be competitive in basketball in the MIAC, or any other sport?  Football is so very much a numbers game.  In other sports, if you get 3 or 4 really good players, you can compete.  Take the MAC Men's basketball teams for example when I was there...1999-2003.  They had 3 or 4 really good players and they made the MIAC tournament consecutive years.  If you get 3 or 4 really good FOOTBALL players in the MIAC?...that's nothing!  Football in the MIAC?  The top programs are bringing in 40 - 50 freshmen a YEAR!!!  They are bound to have 10+ really good players in those types of programs.  Not to mention, in football, it's not like the other sports when you lose.  It's not like you are swinging and missing at a ball, or missing a jump shot, or not running as fast as the person next to you.  In football, when you lose, you are getting your body physically pounded and driven into the dirt! 

Macalester has had the best 6 year stretch in recruiting in the program's history...yet they've never had a freshmen class of 25+ athletes.  Why do you think that is?  Maybe it's because they have academic standards on par with the Ivy League schools...AND...they only have a student body enrollment of 2,000 students!  Have you ever had to try to recruit football players to Macalester?  Last time I checked...Macalester gets 6,000+ applications/year to fill an incoming class of about 500 students.  Are you kidding me?  6,000+ of the best an brightest...not just from MN...but from all over the entire world!  Do you want to pick the right ones to admit out of 6,000+, and only have room for 500? 

I'm not being elitist and I'm not saying that the other MIAC schools aren't good schools.  THEY ARE GREAT SCHOOLS!  However, the fact of the matter is that they are different.  That's what so many like you don't seem to understand.  Lots of people want to assume the because Macalester is located in MN and is a private school, it's just like all the other private schools in MN.  MAC IS NOT LIKE ALL THE OTHER PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN MN!  In my time at MAC I took classes at Hamline and St. Thomas through the ACTC program.  Why did I take those classes?  Bottom line is that I took those classes because of one of two reasons...They were either an easy A in a subject non-related to my major, but fulfilled a requirement, or they were not offered at Macalester.  Were there ever any students from any of the other ACTC school in my other classes at Macalester?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They might show up for the first day or two, but would quickly realize how much more work and how much more difficult it was going to be and drop out.  The other MIAC schools, no matter how bad they want to be, struggle to have the same academic rigor as a Macalester...or Carleton!  St. Olaf is trying, but they are not quite there yet.  AND look at what has happened with their football program.

If you want to act like you know everything there is to know about Macalester, why don't you try spending a day on their campus, attending the classes, meeting with the football coaches, talking to people of the Macalester community, and getting to know them and their institution?  Wait...dumb question...you already know everything there is to know about that, right?

[Pat Coleman]

Hey, welcome back to the board, but wow -- take a breath.

[Maverick]

Freitag named Offensive Coordinator for the Fighting Scots!

http://www.monmouthscots.com/news/2015/1/28/FB_0128154132.aspx

[scottie]

Freitag named Offensive Coordinator for the Fighting Scots!

http://www.monmouthscots.com/news/2015/1/28/FB_0128154132.aspx

This is so good in so many ways, I can hardly stand it! 

[gbpuckfan]

Former SNC head coach Don LaViolette died. He led the team to the 1989 playoffs with an at-large bid, which was almost unheard of for the MWC at the time.

http://fox11online.com/2015/02/13/de-pere-coaching-legend-laviolette-dies/

[Pat Coleman]

Point of information: all bids before 1989 were at-large bids.

[AO]

Maybe, just maybe, Macalester didn't "PICK AND CHOOSE" a conference based on how "COMPETITIVE IT COULD BE".  Maybe, just maybe, the school made the decision to align itself with more similar, like minded institutions based on things like mission statements, admissions policies, and financial aid policies.

I call BS on this. If that was the case, why are you playing the rest of your sports in a conference that is such an odd fit?! 

You guys went to the MWC for competitive reasons in football. Fine, I think the MIAC should have given the rest of your sports the boot as well. And, FWIW, I don't want MAC to come back in football. Having 10 teams in the MIAC sponsoring football (one of them being MAC) won't help the top teams get at large bids for the playoffs as it will hurt SOS. I'd rather be able to schedule another quality non-con game.

Now I think some on the MIAC boards want to have their cake and eat it too.  They can say what a disgrace it is that Macalester is picking and choosing the sports to play in-conference, yet know that Mac's departure from the conference would result in a severe dropping off for the conference's academic profile.  Here's a question for you though:  would you rather see a healthy Macalester football team in the MIAC, with 70ish members on the team, or do you want the team that left the MIAC with 30ish players that you used as your personal footstool?  In-conference parity is something for which to strive, and having a competitive Macalester football team is in the best interest of the entire MIAC.  Despite this, it doesn't sound like you even want us back as a football member anyway.  The same people who bemoan our "picking and choosing" similarly bemoan the prospects of a nine-game conference schedule. 

I don't think it'd precipitate a 'severe drop off.' Contrary to the high minded attitudes of MAC and Carleton grads, the other MIAC institutions are very highly thought of. If MAC left, there'd be plenty of very good schools in the MIAC and Carleton as an elite school. Contrary to what you might think, some of us went to other MIAC schools despite getting accepted to schools with better academic reps and tougher admissions standards than MAC or Carleton. 

Again, I just don't want MAC to come back in football. 9 conference games each year pulls everyone's SoS back towards .500. SO, unless that school you're adding is a really good team, it doesn't benefit the other schools.

As for parity, I don't want conference parity. I want excellence and parity, we have the former and are increasingly improving the latter. There are plenty of conferences with remarkable parity and little quality. If I have to choose between the two, give me excellence.

Again, my beef isn't MAC leaving, it's that they stayed in the other sports and then guys like TAS are trying to tell us that it wasn't for competitive reasons. I think right now we have the worst possible option: MAC competing in a conference for football that isn't the MIAC. If that's the direction they want to go, then move all your sports. Or fully rejoin the MIAC. But if I'm honest, I'd rather have them leave all together. It'd help the basketball and baseball schedules as well. And we'd still retain Carleton, a better academic institution for our 'profile.'

That said, good luck today against UWW. Having played and coached in the NCAA playoffs, it's a great experience and I'm genuinely happy for the MAC players and coaches, who had nothing to do whatsoever with where MAC is currently playing.

Hey Hazzben,

You want to claim BS?  If Macalester wanted to pick a conference for football based on competitive reasons...why wouldn't they have picked the UMAC?  They could have easily competed in that conference?

Also, have you ever thought of what it would be like for programs like basketball or baseball to compete in a conference other than the MIAC?  Imagine the amount of travel...and expenses accrued for programs like that to play in the MWC? 

In football?  Not that big of a deal as it's 5...maybe 6...games a year to travel overnight and pay for hotel rooms and meals.  In men's/women's basketball, baseball/softball, or men's/women's soccer?  Might be a little different story, no?

Football is a totally different beast.  What does it take to be competitive in football in the MIAC...vs...what does it take to be competitive in basketball in the MIAC, or any other sport?  Football is so very much a numbers game.  In other sports, if you get 3 or 4 really good players, you can compete.  Take the MAC Men's basketball teams for example when I was there...1999-2003.  They had 3 or 4 really good players and they made the MIAC tournament consecutive years.  If you get 3 or 4 really good FOOTBALL players in the MIAC?...that's nothing!  Football in the MIAC?  The top programs are bringing in 40 - 50 freshmen a YEAR!!!  They are bound to have 10+ really good players in those types of programs.  Not to mention, in football, it's not like the other sports when you lose.  It's not like you are swinging and missing at a ball, or missing a jump shot, or not running as fast as the person next to you.  In football, when you lose, you are getting your body physically pounded and driven into the dirt! 

Macalester has had the best 6 year stretch in recruiting in the program's history...yet they've never had a freshmen class of 25+ athletes.  Why do you think that is?  Maybe it's because they have academic standards on par with the Ivy League schools...AND...they only have a student body enrollment of 2,000 students!  Have you ever had to try to recruit football players to Macalester?  Last time I checked...Macalester gets 6,000+ applications/year to fill an incoming class of about 500 students.  Are you kidding me?  6,000+ of the best an brightest...not just from MN...but from all over the entire world!  Do you want to pick the right ones to admit out of 6,000+, and only have room for 500? 

I'm not being elitist and I'm not saying that the other MIAC schools aren't good schools.  THEY ARE GREAT SCHOOLS!  However, the fact of the matter is that they are different.  That's what so many like you don't seem to understand.  Lots of people want to assume the because Macalester is located in MN and is a private school, it's just like all the other private schools in MN.  MAC IS NOT LIKE ALL THE OTHER PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN MN!  In my time at MAC I took classes at Hamline and St. Thomas through the ACTC program.  Why did I take those classes?  Bottom line is that I took those classes because of one of two reasons...They were either an easy A in a subject non-related to my major, but fulfilled a requirement, or they were not offered at Macalester.  Were there ever any students from any of the other ACTC school in my other classes at Macalester?  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They might show up for the first day or two, but would quickly realize how much more work and how much more difficult it was going to be and drop out.  The other MIAC schools, no matter how bad they want to be, struggle to have the same academic rigor as a Macalester...or Carleton!  St. Olaf is trying, but they are not quite there yet.  AND look at what has happened with their football program.

If you want to act like you know everything there is to know about Macalester, why don't you try spending a day on their campus, attending the classes, meeting with the football coaches, talking to people of the Macalester community, and getting to know them and their institution?  Wait...dumb question...you already know everything there is to know about that, right?

Sounds like you worked your way into agreeing with Hazz that the move was for competitive reasons.  I'm glad to see that your time at MAC hasn't left you closed-minded.    The next time you hear someone complaining about the MWC getting a postseason bid ahead of another non-champion from a better league remind them that the tournament is set up like March Madness.  You don't think MAC is one of the best 32 teams in the country but you're excited to have a chance to pull an upset.