FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[R-MC Guy]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I suspect that teams like Mt. Union are heavily fortified with DI transfers - kids who are good enough to play DI but end up deciding it was not for them.  For example a freshman at a DI school figures out that there is another player a bit better than him in the same year at his position.

You don't have the facts to back this up precisely because there are no facts that back this up.

RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

I-AA Delaware State, not Maryland.

That's a pretty turse reply Pat. But, help me out. Are you saying that DI players don't transfer to Mt. Union? I could well be wrong, but I think they do get transfers from DIA and DIAA schools. Am I incorrect?

[Llamaguy]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I suspect that teams like Mt. Union are heavily fortified with DI transfers - kids who are good enough to play DI but end up deciding it was not for them.  For example a freshman at a DI school figures out that there is another player a bit better than him in the same year at his position.

You don't have the facts to back this up precisely because there are no facts that back this up.

RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

I-AA Delaware State, not Maryland.

My info came from a Wesley fan who's brother played for Wesley after transfering from JMU. I trust your judgement so Del. St it is. Bottomline, the kids BC gets from JMU aren't  scholarship kids, they are walkons, there is a difference.

[allsky7]

Where do we got to get it?  And assuming we know where, why aren't we?

Here is my 2 cents. To go deep in the playoffs in consecutive years, several different ingriedients are needed.

One way is to be a nationally known power who the player will consider going to even though they are a higher than D3 kid. The ODAC doesn't get D-1 transfers, yes an occasional D-1AA (BCS) but no D1 transfers. Remember Elliot to Linfield from Utah, UWW have several kids who were offered walk on status at U. Wisconsin. In my opinion no team in the ODAC will get to Mt. Union, St. Johns status so this option is out for the ODAC.

The second ingriedient is a fertile recruiting area. VA is talented but most of the kids go to D1 Va Tech, UVA, then there is JMU,W&M,Liberty,Richmond at the BCS division. In comparison, Wisconsin has UW at D1 then all the other state schools are D3. Combine that with Ohio,Texas,PA having talented kids, and even Mt.Union is recruiting Florida now.
You have to be lucky in the ODAC to get one or two of these kids, much less enough to compete nationally.

To answer the BC 2001 run, we had 4-8 kids with D1 talent on the same team. It only happens in the ODAC when the stars align, and certainly not long term, atleast on a national scale.
RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

     Llama....I think you hit the nail on the head. Despite my previous optimistic post, the reality is that it is highly unlikely the ODAC will be returning to Salem any time soon. Civic Center....maybe.....Salem Stadium, not likely. It's funny you mention the "4-8 kids with D1 talent". I have brought that up several times in previous post and gotten hammered for it. 

[PA_wesleyfan]

Pat and Llama

It was Del st. for sure. I think there were some things that happened prior to his freshman year that chnaged his plans for college.

Murray was also heavily recruited to play Basketball at D1 level but I don't know the circumstances on his change to Wesley.

Wesley has gotten a few players from Del st.  and a few from Delaware over the years but most were not starting or getting much, if any playing time.    

[beenhit2hard]

Re:MUC and D-1 transfers

Mount Union has had a few D-1 players who transferred in.Two had been QB recruits from the big 10. One ended up being a lb for Mount  and the other a wr. Neither could play qb at mount.Many times D-1 coaches make mistakes in recruiting and the kids can't play there,,so they transfer to D-3 schools. Mount DOES NOT seek them out,.Their best reciever this year is a transfer,, from Norwich??I think,,not a D-1.MUC recruits good kids who are willing to work , they play a JV schedule with mainly frosh to get them experience,,and having 5 weeks of extra practice each year does not hurt either. Mount's success come from good players,hard work ,,a great staff ,and a top notch head coach(many of the staff have been together for 15 years or more). The weight program is a major factor in getting the kids stronger,,and they have a facility that enables development of quality athletes.

These are just my observations !!

[@d3jason]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I suspect that teams like Mt. Union are heavily fortified with DI transfers - kids who are good enough to play DI but end up deciding it was not for them.  For example a freshman at a DI school figures out that there is another player a bit better than him in the same year at his position.

You don't have the facts to back this up precisely because there are no facts that back this up.

RMC guy,
You nailed it! I'll even give you an example from Wesley. Robinson (DE), probably the best DE in D3 this year had a full ride to Maryland and ended up at Wesley. They have a 6'6" freshman WR who had commited to IOWA but is now at Wesley. It takes connections and a coach able to sell their little school.

I-AA Delaware State, not Maryland.

My info came from a Wesley fan who's brother played for Wesley after transfering from JMU. I trust your judgement so Del. St it is. Bottomline, the kids BC gets from JMU aren't  scholarship kids, they are walkons, there is a difference.

It was Delaware State, (which like Wesley is in Dover) and Robinson is a local kid from Caesar Rodney. Not aware of a JMU transfer, maybe you mean the punt returner from Delaware, who is also a local kid. Most transfers that Wesley has gotten historically have been local kids coming back home to play.

Speaking of which huge week in the First State with all three college football programs in the playoffs. Delaware State and Delaware square off on Friday at 2:00 on ESPN. I probably can't talk my wife into going to that game and the Wesley/Muhlenberg game on back-to-back days. (But I'll probably try anyway...)

I also wanted to say hats off to the Hampden-Sydney Tigers and Coach Favret. A classy bunch! The played their butts of and seemed to relish every moment of the experience. You could tell at the press conference afterward. Josh Simpson cracked me up, he was pretending to get his hair ready on the podium in front of the cameras/reporters while sitting there in his uniform after a tough game. Hilarious! Have to love an excellent football player with a sense of humor. Hovis and Drew Smith represented well too. I think you could tell what a tight bond that team shared this season.

[Oil Can]

Re:MUC and D-1 transfers

...and having 5 weeks of extra practice each year does not hurt either.

...These are just my observations !!

I will give 100% credence to your observations   And the 5 extra weeks of practice each year is the equivilent of 2 additional seasons over a 4 year career....that is a heck of an advantage, but one that is available to all if they advance!

[Llamaguy]

Re:MUC and D-1 transfers

Mount Union has had a few D-1 players who transferred in.Two had been QB recruits from the big 10. One ended up being a lb for Mount  and the other a wr. Neither could play qb at mount.Many times D-1 coaches make mistakes in recruiting and the kids can't play there,,so they transfer to D-3 schools. Mount DOES NOT seek them out,.Their best reciever this year is a transfer,, from Norwich??I think,,not a D-1.MUC recruits good kids who are willing to work , they play a JV schedule with mainly frosh to get them experience,,and having 5 weeks of extra practice each year does not hurt either. Mount's success come from good players,hard work ,,a great staff ,and a top notch head coach(many of the staff have been together for 15 years or more). The weight program is a major factor in getting the kids stronger,,and they have a facility that enables development of quality athletes.

These are just my observations !!

And firsthand observations at that! I agree that student athletes seek out Mt. Union because the program is "that good" and is run the right way.

You hit on a reason the ODAC may not compete nationally. The JV schedule. BC has a 4 game JV schedule and didn't have a JV team prior to 2000 I believe. How many games do Mt. Union JV's play? It is a stretch for our coaches to do more than 4 games at the JV level, to do more it may take more coaches. I can see where that may be appealing to kids who won't play their Freshman year.

[Oil Can]

Speaking of which huge week in the First State with all three college football programs in the playoffs. Delaware State and Delaware square off on Friday at 2:00 on ESPN.

ESPN had a segment on Outside the Lines a week or so ago on Delaware "dodging" Delaware St.  Guess they have to play now for pretty high stakes!

[PA_wesleyfan]

The Wilmington Del papers had been writing about the matchup and why it hasn't come to pass before now.

[wesleydad]

it is certain that muc gets kids that could play at another level whether they transfer or not, to say otherwise is just ridiculous.  as far as wesley goes, i can speak for my son and what he went through trying to go to school.  he did not have great sat scores, was recruited by temple and kutztown but was forgotten because of his test scores.  he certainly has the size, 6-3 225 or so, the arm strength, and the hands to play more than one position at several higher levels.  why did he end up at wesley, one thing and one thing only, coach drass.  he met many coaches and i was only asked to meet one.  coach drass is fantastic with the players and they have done all they said they would to make sure my son got his education while he played football.  b-rob had a situation occur in high school that forced him to change his plans, i have known him for 4 years now and a finer gentleman off the field you will not meet.  as for the others who have transfered in to wesley, the spoils of winning will do that.  if a kid just wants to play and thinks d3 is the best for them then they should do it.  the choice my son made has been better than we could have ever expected it to be, playing for a top team in the country and getting a solid education, and just as important spending time with a great person, coach drass.  as a parent, you could not ask for anything more.

[fmfdoc]

What's it going to take to prevent future ODAC teams from getting walloped in the first round of the playoffs?  This is the second straight year the ODAC standard-bearer has been ousted immediately.  I mean no disrespect to the Tigers; the accounts of the game on this board indicate the it was closer than the score illustrates. 8)

I know we've covered this before in prior posts, but the timing is right to revisit the topic, especially since it's a year later, and hopefully we're all a little bit wiser!

It sounds a lot like we (the ODAC) get pushed around on the Offensive and Defensive lines due to a difference in size.   You were at the Stagg Bowl last year, jacketlawyer, as was I, and I also saw some marked differences in team speed and depth.     

As usual, I am probably way off base, but here goes in no particular order:
1. Could be that they have a larger base population of HS talent to draw from. Ohio is #7 in population, PA is #6, NY #3, TX is #2 border state IN is 14 with one state over IL at #6.
VA is 12 and WV 37.
However, presenting both sides of this theory DE is 45.
2. Bigger HS Football & Wrestling programs starting at Pop Warner levels and serious weight training programs.
3. Basketball is the sport that receives maybe better than 50% of the sports attention in VA.
4. Like allsky said - Lots of local DI schools in VA
5. You need more than 1-2 really talented players on both sides of the ball, you have to be deep, have a good kicking game and special team play.

[marc]

it is certain that muc gets kids that could play at another level whether they transfer or not, to say otherwise is just ridiculous.  as far as wesley goes, i can speak for my son and what he went through trying to go to school.  he did not have great sat scores, was recruited by temple and kutztown but was forgotten because of his test scores.  he certainly has the size, 6-3 225 or so, the arm strength, and the hands to play more than one position at several higher levels.  why did he end up at wesley, one thing and one thing only, coach drass.  he met many coaches and i was only asked to meet one.  coach drass is fantastic with the players and they have done all they said they would to make sure my son got his education while he played football.  b-rob had a situation occur in high school that forced him to change his plans, i have known him for 4 years now and a finer gentleman off the field you will not meet.  as for the others who have transfered in to wesley, the spoils of winning will do that.  if a kid just wants to play and thinks d3 is the best for them then they should do it.  the choice my son made has been better than we could have ever expected it to be, playing for a top team in the country and getting a solid education, and just as important spending time with a great person, coach drass.  as a parent, you could not ask for anything more.

As an HSC fan I can attest to that. The Wesley guys were a class act, both coaches and players. The fans were polite and gracious. My son played in the game Sat and said the Wesley guys played hard, clean football.  Hats of to a good program.  We too have a great coaching staff. Were proud of them and the whole HSC team. They gave Wesley all they had and fought to the end.

[Pat Coleman]

That's a pretty turse reply Pat. But, help me out. Are you saying that DI players don't transfer to Mt. Union? I could well be wrong, but I think they do get transfers from DIA and DIAA schools. Am I incorrect?

A couple do, but to say they are "heavily fortified" is not even close to being true. Go find the D-I transfers on the roster and report back. There might be a couple at any given time but your assumptions are way off base.

[TheEHC52]

Mount does get the D1 transfer/Prop 48 kids.  Anybody else remember Larry Kinnard?

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2000/08/20/OSU+recruit+heads+to+Mt.+Union

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Chris Kern have D1 offers before he went to Mount?  He hasn't done too bad since graduation.  Nice guy too.  He showed up at Emory one time to visit Monty/Stan Watson.

And on another note, talking to one of my profs here who is a diehard ONU fan, it was always stated that Jason Trusnik had a few mid-level D1 offers.

I think the key is to recruit nationally as well as locally.  Personally (even though it hurts, I'll give credit where credit is due), I like how W&L was able to recruit nationally to build a solid roster of guys smart enough, but maybe not big enough to go to the Ivy programs.  The Fulk Brothers are from CA, Snoddy is from Atlanta and Ward was from Charlotte I believe.  I think that is generally a bigger recruiting base than most ODAC schools employ.  Of course the national reputation doesn't hurt in that regard. 

What a way to start the recruiting talk for next year!