FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Ryan Tipps]

If we are indeed thinking of the same thing...a) How many people (non-team related) know about it, and b) Does that change Macon's rankings in the polls at all?

I'm going to leave any projections to you and the rest of the board. I want to wait to see how camp plays out before I make any decision on how I'd rank the conference teams. Plus, my predictions will appear in Kickoff, so I don't want to spoil any of that fun out in the open now. Macon is just one of many teams that has some question marks.

[tigerfanalso]

Interesting responses and I can't disagree with any of them to any significant degree. I personally think the ODAC is far better than "so-so" but we'll never play teams from the power conferences due to travel cost and how out of region games are looked at come playoff time. Simply no reason to do so; however HSC does play Salisbury this year which should qualify has a significant player at the D3 level. Don't know what kind of team they will have this year but they have had some really good ones recently.

Fun conversation. Good luck to all this season, may your teams play well and avoid any serious injury !!!!

[RMCFan]

Only 3.5 weeks until kickoff...but who's counting?

[muchacho]

To add to the quality of the ODAC debate, do people think the conference is better as it is now(2006-2008) with parity among most teams, or from 2001-2005 when Bridgewater was dominant.
My thought is those following D3 would probably give the ODAC of a few years ago more respect based on just the success of Bridgewater, but that only takes into acount the talent and performance of one team. Obviously no team in the ODAC right now can compare to BC's teams during that time, but is the level of play and talent better now than it was 5 years ago?
Did BC fall that far from where they had risen to, or have the other programs just raised their game that much?

[HSC85]

I think teams in at the top of the ODAC are least 15-20 players short of the teams that are considered at the top of DIII.  They are probably 40 players short of Mt Union or Whitewater.  What I mean is that the teams that are at the top of the ODAC are good enough at one or two aspects of the game to win the conference but when they go up against more talented and balanced teams they do not fair as well.  I think most years that the ODAC champion would be one of the top 20 - 30 teams in the country.  I do not think that the ODAC champion would be in the top 10.

When HSC played Wesley in the 2007 playoffs there was a noticable difference at several positions when looking at talent, size and ability of the players at Wesley.  I would say that there was only about 5-6 players on that HSC squad that would have made the Wesley travel team.    I think that the ODAC is much more fun to watch and follow now that more teams are competing for the conference title.  Also, I think the HSC team of 2009 is better than the 2007 team.  Will they win the ODAC? I hope so, but there are more teams that are better than 2007 as well. 

No ODAC team is as good as the Bridgewater teams of 2001 - 2005.  That team had many more playmakers on both sides of the ball than is on any ODAC team now. 

[RMCFan]

To add to the quality of the ODAC debate, do people think the conference is better as it is now(2006-2008) with parity among most teams, or from 2001-2005 when Bridgewater was dominant.
My thought is those following D3 would probably give the ODAC of a few years ago more respect based on just the success of Bridgewater, but that only takes into acount the talent and performance of one team. Obviously no team in the ODAC right now can compare to BC's teams during that time, but is the level of play and talent better now than it was 5 years ago?
Did BC fall that far from where they had risen to, or have the other programs just raised their game that much?

I think that you have to look at the conference as a whole in those two time periods, not the conference vs. Bridgewater.  Yes, Bridgewater had a downright dominant team but thats not the question.  The question would be, how would that Bridgewater squad do against the ODAC of the past few years.  Would Bridgewater still steam roll the conference or would it have to win battles every Saturday.  That's a way you could rate the conference's growth (or decline) as a whole.

I want to show a statistic that I think argues for the growth of the leauge:  In Bridgewater's best year in that span (2001) the league minus Bridgewater had .500 teams at best.  E&H, HSC, and W&L all had 5-5 records with a 3-3 conference record, and it only went down with the rest of the conference.

Now lets fast forward to 2008.  Hampden-Sydney and RMC play for the conference crown at the end of the season with a trip to the playoffs on the line.  HSC goes 9-2 (6-0 ODAC) with a trip to the playoffs, RMC goes 8-2 (5-1 ODAC), W&L goes 6-3 (4-2 in the ODAC), Bridgewater goes 7-3 (3-3 ODAC) and Guilford goes 6-4 (2-4 ODAC).  So the ODAC as a whole has increased its record against outside foes.

Just some thoughts.

[Generalsfan]

First time posting. Since there are no Generals fans I thought I would get on here.

This topic is interesting because I was thinking about quality of play from these two eras the last game I was at in the fall. I have to agree more with HSC 85. Yes the conference is more fun to follow now that every game is important in the conference until favorites seperate in the last two weeks. But the conference from a talent perspective is nowhere near what it was when Bridgewater was dominating. Even though it was a one team conference in '01-'05 that team raised the play of every other team. I only saw three or four conference games last year but the level of play was slightly down from an athlete's perspective. The Bridgewater teams were complete football teams. You had to play extremely hard every play (harder on special teams). To put in perspecitve you could take the all-ODAC teams from 2007 and that team would struggle to beat Bridgewater of 2003 and 2004. From top to bottom the conference just doesn't have the quality of players there once were, and I think its most evident in the interior line. The ODAC doesn't have the elite talent it once did and more importantly it lacks the quality second tier players that were once abundant on the second and third best teams. In 2004-2005 if you take a couple playmakers from Bridgewater and give them to HSC  on defense or W and L on offense then the confernce, in my opinion, would have had two teams potentially good enough to win a playoff game or two.

Now there isn't one team in the conference I see winning in the playoffs in the near future.  The schools having better overall records only supports that the talent is more evenly spread out (I would think because every school has something to offer now with the conferene wide renovation in facilities). But I think the conference as a whole would be better with a dominant team garnering national attention. Because in that case any team decent enough to win a playoff game can possibly string a couple wins together and then if you upset the dominant team you stand to get a decent seed in the playoffs, and the dominanat team would still potentially get in the playoffs with a legitimate chance to upset first round. Which was the upside playing in a conference with a national powerhouse. Now even if you win conference its a perceived weak conference and you will still be on the road first round of the post season.

To answer Muchacho's question, Bridgewater fell a lot (but still has the best chance to string a couple titles in a row together).

[hasanova]

Welcome, Generalsfan.  It's always good to see posters from all the ODAC schools!

[hasanova]

Drove through Guilford tonight after work - practice was underway on the field turf at Armfield.  Hard to say how many guys with all the milling around, but I'd say around a hundred.  I hope it's a successful and injury-free campaign!  Just an "educated" guess, but I'd expect a lot more running and a lot less passing from the Quakers this season. 

[tigerfanalso]

Hasa

Does the Ol down there even know how to run block ? That might be a real culture change for them ?

Just kidding .... Good luck this season  and I hope to get down to Greensboro for the HSC game.

[Jeremybozz]

To add to the quality of the ODAC debate, do people think the conference is better as it is now(2006-2008) with parity among most teams, or from 2001-2005 when Bridgewater was dominant.
My thought is those following D3 would probably give the ODAC of a few years ago more respect based on just the success of Bridgewater, but that only takes into acount the talent and performance of one team. Obviously no team in the ODAC right now can compare to BC's teams during that time, but is the level of play and talent better now than it was 5 years ago?
Did BC fall that far from where they had risen to, or have the other programs just raised their game that much?

I think that you have to look at the conference as a whole in those two time periods, not the conference vs. Bridgewater.  Yes, Bridgewater had a downright dominant team but thats not the question.  The question would be, how would that Bridgewater squad do against the ODAC of the past few years.  Would Bridgewater still steam roll the conference or would it have to win battles every Saturday.  That's a way you could rate the conference's growth (or decline) as a whole.

I want to show a statistic that I think argues for the growth of the leauge:  In Bridgewater's best year in that span (2001) the league minus Bridgewater had .500 teams at best.  E&H, HSC, and W&L all had 5-5 records with a 3-3 conference record, and it only went down with the rest of the conference.

Now lets fast forward to 2008.  Hampden-Sydney and RMC play for the conference crown at the end of the season with a trip to the playoffs on the line.  HSC goes 9-2 (6-0 ODAC) with a trip to the playoffs, RMC goes 8-2 (5-1 ODAC), W&L goes 6-3 (4-2 in the ODAC), Bridgewater goes 7-3 (3-3 ODAC) and Guilford goes 6-4 (2-4 ODAC).  So the ODAC as a whole has increased its record against outside foes.

Just some thoughts.

Bridgewater was 4-6 in 2008.7-3 in 2007.

[hasanova]

Hasa

Does the Ol down there even know how to run block ? That might be a real culture change for them ?

Just kidding .... Good luck this season  and I hope to get down to Greensboro for the HSC game.

Yeah, tfa, I know.    It will be "culture change", but they did run more last year than the previous three.  Expect Parker and Cooper to get more carries and maybe an option-type QB.  Believe it or not, Parker had 795 yards and 10 TDs in 2008.

It would be great if you could make the trip - Sept. 26 will be a 7 pm night game and homecoming, so it should be a great crowd!

[TheEHC52]

Congratulations to former E&H linebacker Daniel Barnes for making the roster at Clemson.  He's a great teammate and hard worker who will hopefully get a shot on the field.

[TooForRaider]

Mt. Union is a private college.  If it were only an issue of private versus state-supported schools, the WIAC institutions, CNU and other publicly funded schools should dominate each year.  It's partly what the school administration chooses to support and fund.  I will say, in my opinion, it's easier to build a basketball program than a football program due to sheer numbers.   That is, two to three great athletes and five to seven good athletes can make a basketball program.  It takes 20 and 70, respectively, to be a national contender in football.  

Bridgewater did have it going for 5-6 years, but they haven't sustained it.  CUA had a great program in the late 90's - same story.  Not sure what the answer is.  The truth sometimes hurts, but the ODAC is a so-so DIII football conference at the moment.  To start the season at least, I don't think any ODAC school will get my vote for a South Region Top Ten spot.

"On any given 'Saturday' " to paraphrase the old saying, but if the season started today, I don't think any ODAC school would be competitive against the national Top Ten.  

I don't get over to this board much, but I like to keep tabs on the ODAC because of Coach Monty at EHC.  Hasanova, great post.  I wish I could award karma.  A lot of people do not realize that the Wisconsin schools' tuition is ridiculously low compared to the private schools.  Their enrollments are almost 5 times that of the OAC schools and probably moreso with other institutions.

[hasanova]

I don't get over to this board much, but I like to keep tabs on the ODAC because of Coach Monty at EHC.  Hasanova, great post.  I wish I could award karma.  A lot of people do not realize that the Wisconsin schools' tuition is ridiculously low compared to the private schools.  Their enrollments are almost 5 times that of the OAC schools and probably moreso with other institutions.

Thanks, TooForRaider.  MUC has certainly set the standard for the rest of DIII - and they have definitely proven a private school can win the title!

Wisconsin football in general and WIAC football in particular are special cases.  As far as I know, there is only one DI football-playing school in the state (U. of Wisconsin in Madison).   Sprinkle in a few non-WIAC DIII's (Beloit, Wisconsin Lutheran, et al) and the truth is - the WIAC has no real competition for quality athletes who can't quite make the Badgers!

Compare this to NC.  First, there are over 30 college football programs in the state.  Second, there are five DI programs (UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake Forest and ECU).   Third, our "second-tier" equivalent to the WIAC's UW-Whitewater is a little program you may have heard of, but instead of being called UNC-Boone, it's called Appalachian State.   Ask the Michigan Wolverines if they've ever heard of them.