FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[ExTartanPlayer]

The discussion of a hypothethical 7-3ish conference champ getting fed to Mount Union or UMHB in the first round fascinates me, and whether it is "worth it" to respective parties.

I think there's a bit of a difference in the fan's perspective versus player's perspective.  I kind of understand, if you're a fan of a school like W & L and you have made it to the playoffs a few times recently, there's a bit of fan fatigue that may set in when you know you're going to the playoffs with a team that isn't one of your "better" teams over the last few seasons and that you're likely headed for a whupping in Round 1.  From that side, I get the viewpoint of enjoying the shared conference title minus the 60-point road loss to Mount Union.

From the player's view, if you're an upperclassman, every extra game is worth it, and even if you know you're gonna lose by 60...how cool is it to say that you played against the national champions, or that you got to play at Mary-Hardin-Baylor, or something like that?  I wouldn't trade my memories of the 2006 playoff win for anything, but I might have found it an acceptable alternative to lose a first-round game at Mount Union just because I would always have remembered that I played the multiple-time-defending-national-champs on their own turf.  So I think a player has to be excited about it even if they're an 8 seed going to play an absolute juggernaut.

From the coach's side, there is also a huge benefit to that playoff berth, even if it's a Round 1 blowout loss.  You get one extra week of practice with the kids, but perhaps more importantly, you get the recruiting talking point of being a playoff team.  That stuff matters a lot to HS kids, even if they can see that you lost by 60 in round 1; it's still neat to hear a coach talk about the team's "third playoff berth in four years" - going to the playoffs gives your program a feel of continued momentum.  So I think there's a lot of value in getting that berth, although I understand why a fan might decide not to fly across the country to watch the 60-point loss.

[jknezek]

The discussion of a hypothethical 7-3ish conference champ getting fed to Mount Union or UMHB in the first round fascinates me, and whether it is "worth it" to respective parties.

I think there's a bit of a difference in the fan's perspective versus player's perspective.  I kind of understand, if you're a fan of a school like W & L and you have made it to the playoffs a few times recently, there's a bit of fan fatigue that may set in when you know you're going to the playoffs with a team that isn't one of your "better" teams over the last few seasons and that you're likely headed for a whupping in Round 1.  From that side, I get the viewpoint of enjoying the shared conference title minus the 60-point road loss to Mount Union.

From the player's view, if you're an upperclassman, every extra game is worth it, and even if you know you're gonna lose by 60...how cool is it to say that you played against the national champions, or that you got to play at Mary-Hardin-Baylor, or something like that?  I wouldn't trade my memories of the 2006 playoff win for anything, but I might have found it an acceptable alternative to lose a first-round game at Mount Union just because I would always have remembered that I played the multiple-time-defending-national-champs on their own turf.  So I think a player has to be excited about it even if they're an 8 seed going to play an absolute juggernaut.

From the coach's side, there is also a huge benefit to that playoff berth, even if it's a Round 1 blowout loss.  You get one extra week of practice with the kids, but perhaps more importantly, you get the recruiting talking point of being a playoff team.  That stuff matters a lot to HS kids, even if they can see that you lost by 60 in round 1; it's still neat to hear a coach talk about the team's "third playoff berth in four years" - going to the playoffs gives your program a feel of continued momentum.  So I think there's a lot of value in getting that berth, although I understand why a fan might decide not to fly across the country to watch the 60-point loss.

+K. I struggled to make these points for two days and you've got it summed up pretty well. You nailed the fan perspective I have, the player perspective that I completely respect and support, and the coach perspective that I hadn't addressed.

[jknezek]

JK

I've got to ask, what is your take on the W&L vs. HSC game, the RMC vs BC game and the GC vs. CAU game ?

W&L needs some help from HSC. The HSC passing game needs to sputter, W&L needs to hold HSC under 30 points, max, and the Generals need some turnovers and to be out in front early. This isn't a Generals team like the last few years where scores can come quick on multiple drives to get you back in a game. I think HSC by 14 to 17 pts.

RMC should take BC. The caveat here is if RMC is looking ahead to The Game or BC finally lives up to some potential now that they got a conference win. RMC by 10. Guilford at Catholic is fascinating. Catholic is better than their conference record, Guilford (in my opinion) is not as good as their conference record. If Catholic can get out in front, I expect the Cardinals to win. Probably not a popular pick, but we'll see how a young team picks itself up after last week's disappointment. I just can't help but think the next two years are Guilford's time to shine. Catholic by 7-10.

I notice you left off E&H at Shenandoah. This is actually an interesting game. I kind of like Shenandoah here, but until they can prove they can win games that aren't fluky, I'll stick with E&H trying to stay out of the ODAC cellar. E&H by 3-7.

And that reminds me I have to go make my pick'em picks!

[tigerfanalso]

And HSC has been very friendly helping it's opposition this year. Mostly in the CNU game; the # of turnovers this season is something to forget about. Only had one last weekend (I think); one reason GC was kept off the scoreboard and helped HSC to control the flow of the game. We'll see what is store against the Gennies in a few short days.

[hasanova]

And HSC has been very friendly helping it's opposition this year. Mostly in the CNU game; the # of turnovers this season is something to forget about. Only had one last weekend (I think); one reason GC was kept off the scoreboard and helped HSC to control the flow of the game. We'll see what is store against the Gennies in a few short days.

GC intercepted Nash Nance once I remember in the 1st Quarter.

[algernon]

Battle of the ODAC and USA South:

Maryville (7-1) lost to EHC
Methodist (6-2) lost to EHC, but beat Guilford
CNU (6-2) beat HSC and Shenandoah
Ferrum (2-6) lost to EHC, Shenandoah, Bridgewater.
Greensboro (2-7) lost to Guilford and Bridgewater
Averett (1-7) lost to HSC and RMC, but beat Guilford

ODAC:  9
USA South:  4

Interestingly enough, Maryville is #27 in the latest D3Football Top 25 .... and CNU got a couple of points (which may represent just a #24 ranking from 1 member of the polling panel).

The AFCA Coaches Poll has none of these 2 conferences' teams getting anywhere near the Top 25, although Huntingdon, HSC, and Maryville, are getting minimal votes.

[tigerfanalso]

Neither the ODAC or the USA South have a team deserving of a spot in any national ranking. Maybe next year !!!!

[Scots13]

Neither the ODAC or the USA South have a team deserving of a spot in any national ranking. Maybe next year !!!!

I'd like to see my brothers ranked at some point (I think the last time an MC team was ranked by any poll was in the late 70s), but you're right. The ODAC and USAC should make a little noise in the playoffs before trying to claim any national rankings status.

Make it to the second round and make a close game of it or show some game against the likes of regional powers/Top 15 and then they can make a claim. What good would it be to have teams like HSC, RMC, Guilford, Huntingdon, or Maryville ranked 23rd-25th just to get smashed in the first round?

[ExTartanPlayer]

Neither the ODAC or the USA South have a team deserving of a spot in any national ranking. Maybe next year !!!!

I'd like to see my brothers ranked at some point (I think the last time an MC team was ranked by any poll was in the late 70s), but you're right. The ODAC and USAC should make a little noise in the playoffs before trying to claim any national rankings status.

Make it to the second round and make a close game of it or show some game against the likes of regional powers/Top 15 and then they can make a claim. What good would it be to have teams like HSC, RMC, Guilford, Huntingdon, or Maryville ranked 23rd-25th just to get smashed in the first round?

Keith posted a nice item about this a few weeks ago, saying that it's nice to be ranked for the sake of being ranked, but it's better to actually be good enough to worthy of that ranking.

[Scots13]

Neither the ODAC or the USA South have a team deserving of a spot in any national ranking. Maybe next year !!!!

I'd like to see my brothers ranked at some point (I think the last time an MC team was ranked by any poll was in the late 70s), but you're right. The ODAC and USAC should make a little noise in the playoffs before trying to claim any national rankings status.

Make it to the second round and make a close game of it or show some game against the likes of regional powers/Top 15 and then they can make a claim. What good would it be to have teams like HSC, RMC, Guilford, Huntingdon, or Maryville ranked 23rd-25th just to get smashed in the first round?

Keith posted a nice item about this a few weeks ago, saying that it's nice to be ranked for the sake of being ranked, but it's better to actually be good enough to worthy of that ranking.

Exactly. D3 rankings are much different from other divisions because there are 244 teams. To be in the Top 25 is saying you are within the top 10%. Can't remember the exact number of FBS teams, but it's like being in the Top 15 for them. Bottom line: borderline great teams. ODAC/USAC have good teams. Not great.

[odacsuperfan]

RMC looks like they may have the edge with HSC at home last game. W&L doesn't seem to be potent enough to beat HSC this year. Don't see Guilford or RMC losing this week either. Although Bridgewater could use this game as their playoff game by beating RMC. But don't see that happening. I believe it comes down to HSC at RMC to decide the Championship. Even though HSC lost to 2 inferior teams this year they are by far the best overall team in my opinion. Too many good skilled players on Offense and Defense.  And O&D Line is good. The ODAC stats tell this story as well.  Just not sure which team will show up against W&L & RMC. W&L can hold a lot of teams down too. Guilford will win their last 2 as well. Your ODAC champion is either GUILFORD or HSC. Guilford Quakers have the best schedule to win out but need help from W&L or RMC. Guilford's remaining schedule looks to doom RMC chances.

[HSCTiger fan]

RMC looks like they may have the edge with HSC at home last game. W&L doesn't seem to be potent enough to beat HSC this year. Don't see Guilford or RMC losing this week either. Although Bridgewater could use this game as their playoff game by beating RMC. But don't see that happening. I believe it comes down to HSC at RMC to decide the Championship. Even though HSC lost to 2 inferior teams this year they are by far the best overall team in my opinion. Too many good skilled players on Offense and Defense.  And O&D Line is good. The ODAC stats tell this story as well.  Just not sure which team will show up against W&L & RMC. W&L can hold a lot of teams down too. Guilford will win their last 2 as well. Your ODAC champion is either GUILFORD or HSC. Guilford Quakers have the best schedule to win out but need help from W&L or RMC. Guilford's remaining schedule looks to doom RMC chances.

Bridgewater might beat RMC but CU or EH can't beat GC?  I don't agree. With respect to ALL GC fans all over the world, if they play the way they played against HSC they will lose.  I think Hasa would agree. The same can be said about HSC. Turn the ball over like they did at CNU or play defense like they did in 2nd half against SU, then there's no ODAC championship for HSC.

Guilford plays CU at home. The CU seniors' last home game. CU has GC and BC left.  If CU can win those games they finish 6 - 4.  It would mean their first winning season since 08. EH plays SU and GC on the road. If EH can beat SU they come into GC playing for a 6 - 4 season.  I agree however, that GC has an easier schedule than HSC.

HSC has WL at home on senior day and RMC in Ashland.  The talk on the board has been that WL is a long shot to win the conference. I don't think it's a 100 to 1. The easiest path to ODAC glory seems to me is - WL wins their last 2, GC loses only one of two and HSC beats RMC then there's a 3 way tie with GC, WL and HSC.  JK you would get your wish in that WL would share the championship but the playoffs would most likely in this scenario go HSC based on point differential. 

Here's something you won't read often. RMC fans last week had to be excited to see HSC win!  Their chance at a ODAC title depends on 1 more GC loss and victories over BC and HSC. If this weekend produces a GC loss and wins by RMC and HSC, then "The Game" will decide the champion. I predict if that occurs that 15k+ will attend.  Even if all 3 win this weekend at kickoff next Saturday RMC would know that their only shot is a victory and a GC loss. It will be a great atmosphere for "The Game".

[jknezek]

The easiest path to ODAC glory seems to me is - WL wins their last 2, GC loses only one of two and HSC beats RMC then there's a 3 way tie with GC, WL and HSC.  JK you would get your wish in that WL would share the championship but the playoffs would most likely in this scenario go HSC based on point differential. 

Is point differential the tie-breaker? I've never known. I think it used to be a Rose Bowl rule (which also rules out W&L), am I wrong or was it changed? I remember looking on the ODAC site once and not finding an answer.

[HSCTiger fan]

The easiest path to ODAC glory seems to me is - WL wins their last 2, GC loses only one of two and HSC beats RMC then there's a 3 way tie with GC, WL and HSC.  JK you would get your wish in that WL would share the championship but the playoffs would most likely in this scenario go HSC based on point differential. 

Is point differential the tie-breaker? I've never known. I think it used to be a Rose Bowl rule (which also rules out W&L), am I wrong or was it changed? I remember looking on the ODAC site once and not finding an answer.

I asked one of our coaches about the tiebreaker procedures. That's the information he gave me.   He said the rule was changed a couple years back.

[jknezek]

The easiest path to ODAC glory seems to me is - WL wins their last 2, GC loses only one of two and HSC beats RMC then there's a 3 way tie with GC, WL and HSC.  JK you would get your wish in that WL would share the championship but the playoffs would most likely in this scenario go HSC based on point differential. 

Is point differential the tie-breaker? I've never known. I think it used to be a Rose Bowl rule (which also rules out W&L), am I wrong or was it changed? I remember looking on the ODAC site once and not finding an answer.

I asked one of our coaches about the tiebreaker procedures. That's the information he gave me.

Excellent. +K