FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigerfanalso]

Do you think Vince Lombardi was referring to anything other than a football player/team in his quote posted by TigerFan ?

[Pat Coleman]

Not really sure, but even so, professional football is a far different thing than a 240-team collegiate division. I hope you get to see the distance between HSC and UWW up close some day -- I mean, if Mount Union couldn't even stay within five touchdowns then that should be some indication.

I would have never thought thinking the mighty are not invincible would create such reactions.  I'd rather be thought ridiculous than to think any other way.

The mighty are not invincible. But the list of teams that can beat them is significantly shorter than 20-30.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Not really sure, but even so, professional football is a far different thing than a 240-team collegiate division. I hope you get to see the distance between HSC and UWW up close some day -- I mean, if Mount Union couldn't even stay within five touchdowns then that should be some indication.

I would have never thought thinking the mighty are not invincible would create such reactions.  I'd rather be thought ridiculous than to think any other way.

The mighty are not invincible. But the list of teams that can beat them is significantly shorter than 20-30.

I must take issue with the use of can beat them - monumental upsets DO (rarely) occur (see Michigan/App State in football, or Virginia/Chaminade in basketball).  The list of teams with any reasonable chance of beating them is quite short, but the list of teams that CAN beat them is as long as the list of teams.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I must take issue with the use of can beat them - monumental upsets DO (rarely) occur (see Michigan/App State in football, or Virginia/Chaminade in basketball).  The list of teams with any reasonable chance of beating them is quite short, but the list of teams that CAN beat them is as long as the list of teams.

Now, now, let's not go into the realm of the totally ridiculous.  Hiram and Whitewater could play a game against each other every day for a year and Hiram wouldn't finish one of those games within 35 points of Whitewater.

Really, I'd argue that the talent gap between App State vs. Michigan is significantly less than the talent gap between the top of Division III and the bottom of Division III.

I'll also grant that I was significantly more surprised by the Buff State-Whitewater result in 2012 than I was by App State beating Michigan.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hiram and Whitewater could play a game a day for a CENTURY, and Hiram might never come within 35.

But I'm sticking to my semantic quibble.  Any team CAN beat any other team on a given day, however unlikely it may be.  As you yourself observed, there is always a 1 in the numerator, no matter how large the number in the denominator may be.  The list of teams who have any reasonable chance of beating a truly elite opponent is very small; the list of teams who CAN beat them is as long as the list of teams.

As Pat is a very careful editor, I just wanted to get that semantic quibble out in the open.

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah. We parsed those semantics back when I worked at the newspaper, too, but I'm trying to stick in the realm of realism here. Play the can vs. will vs. would game all you want but the games that take place on the field tell a different tale.

Wake me up when Hiram schedules Whitewater, Mr. Y.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah. We parsed those semantics back when I worked at the newspaper, too, but I'm trying to stick in the realm of realism here. Play the can vs. will vs. would game all you want but the games that take place on the field tell a different tale.

Wake me up when Hiram schedules Whitewater, Mr. Y.

You'll be asleep FAR longer than Rip Van Winkle!

App St beat Michigan, Buff St beat Whitewater, Chaminade beat Virginia - those are real.  Realism requires that you recognize that bizarre things CAN happen - however rarely.  The claim that a very limited number of teams CAN beat an 'elite' team is simply NOT real.  That a VERY limited number of teams have any reasonable chance against an elite team IS real.

That's all I was trying to communicate.

[HSCTiger fan]

I suggested 20 to 30 teams - not 240. 

UWW beat Washington U 17 to 7 last year. UWW did not score until they kicked a FG with 9:19 to go in 4th quarter.  UWW scored on a 30 yard drive to take the lead with 6:39 to go in the 4th quarter. UWW then scored again with 3:00 to on a fumble recovery in the end zone.  This game was at Whitewater. Sure they didn't win, but they gave them a scare.

When they played the game UWW was ranked 9th and Washington U was not in the top 25 or even in the ORV (50 total teams). Washington U finished the season ranked 32nd. 

[jknezek]

A scare is not a win. A win is a win. HSC troubled Linfield, JCU worried UMU, but in the end the elite teams won as they almost always do.

[Pat Coleman]

I suggested 20 to 30 teams - not 240. 

UWW beat Washington U 17 to 7 last year. UWW did not score until they kicked a FG with 9:19 to go in 4th quarter.  UWW scored on a 30 yard drive to take the lead with 6:39 to go in the 4th quarter. UWW then scored again with 3:00 to on a fumble recovery in the end zone.  This game was at Whitewater. Sure they didn't win, but they gave them a scare.

When they played the game UWW was ranked 9th and Washington U was not in the top 25 or even in the ORV (50 total teams). Washington U finished the season ranked 32nd. 

Games are 60 minutes. And Mr. Y, Buff State didn't beat an elite team -- they beat a 7-3 team.

[HSCTiger fan]

Nothing is impossible until it's done. -Nelson Mandella

[Pat Coleman]

All that's left is to schedule the game and let's find out.

[HSCTiger fan]

What would that prove?  If any team played and beat an elite team you'd argue that the elite team was not elite anyway.

[Scots13]

What would that prove?  If any team played and beat an elite team you'd argue that the elite team was not elite anyway.

Probably.
Probably not.
More than likely...Probably.

[Pat Coleman]

What would that prove?  If any team played and beat an elite team you'd argue that the elite team was not elite anyway.

If that team ends up going 7-3 with three losses to non-elite teams, yes. Pretty sure any reasonable unbiased person would do the same, too.