FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCTiger fan]

I know I brought up the NCAA rule. I've always wondered how John Hopkins plays D1 Lacrosse. Anyone know?

[jknezek]

I know I brought up the NCAA rule. I've always wondered how John Hopkins plays D1 Lacrosse. Anyone know?

Grandfathered in. Lacrosse, some hockey teams. Athletes on scholarship in those sports can't play other sports.

[HSCTiger fan]

I know I brought up the NCAA rule. I've always wondered how John Hopkins plays D1 Lacrosse. Anyone know?

Grandfathered in. Lacrosse, some hockey teams. Athletes on scholarship in those sports can't play other sports.

It must be a Lacrosse and hockey thing. Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

[jknezek]

I know I brought up the NCAA rule. I've always wondered how John Hopkins plays D1 Lacrosse. Anyone know?

Grandfathered in. Lacrosse, some hockey teams. Athletes on scholarship in those sports can't play other sports.

It must be a Lacrosse and hockey thing. Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

This wiki has a good explanation under the section labeled "controversy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_%28NCAA%29#Controversy

The Division I programs at each of the eight "waiver schools" which were grandfathered with the passing of Proposal 65-1 were:

    Clarkson University – men's and women's ice hockey
    Colorado College – men's ice hockey, women's soccer
    Hartwick College – men's soccer, women's water polo
    Johns Hopkins University – men's and women's lacrosse
    Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute – men's ice hockey (women's ice hockey moved up to Division I in 2005)
    Rutgers University-Newark – men's volleyball (dropped to Division III in 2014)
    St. Lawrence University – men's and women's ice hockey
    SUNY Oneonta – men's soccer (dropped to Division III in 2006)

[Bombers798891]

What is the point of splitting the division simply because other schools don't want to compete with the big boys?

Because when you're talking about "don't want to compete", you're not talking about a school like St. John Fisher going all in on athletics and football and just not being able to win the big game. You're talking about different core philosophies driving the institutions in question. And if the institutions have different core philosophies regarding football—or athletics in general—they should be competing separately. That why we have separate divisions in the first place.

[02 Warhawk]

What is the point of splitting the division simply because other schools don't want to compete with the big boys?

Because when you're talking about "don't want to compete", you're not talking about a school like St. John Fisher going all in on athletics and football and just not being able to win the big game. You're talking about different core philosophies driving the institutions in question. And if the institutions have different core philosophies regarding football—or athletics in general—they should be competing separately. That why we have separate divisions in the first place.

Too vague...where do you draw that line? that will forever be changing whenever there's turnover in the administration.

[Bombers798891]

Too vague...where do you draw that line? that will forever be changing whenever there's turnover in the administration.

I don't draw it anywhere. The schools themselves can draw it based on where the interests of their institution lies. And if a new leadership decides they'd like to change it, they can do so.

[D3ISGREAT]

I know I brought up the NCAA rule. I've always wondered how John Hopkins plays D1 Lacrosse. Anyone know?

Grandfathered in. Lacrosse, some hockey teams. Athletes on scholarship in those sports can't play other sports.

It must be a Lacrosse and hockey thing. Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

This wiki has a good explanation under the section labeled "controversy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_%28NCAA%29#Controversy

The Division I programs at each of the eight "waiver schools" which were grandfathered with the passing of Proposal 65-1 were:

    Clarkson University – men's and women's ice hockey
    Colorado College – men's ice hockey, women's soccer
    Hartwick College – men's soccer, women's water polo
    Johns Hopkins University – men's and women's lacrosse
    Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute – men's ice hockey (women's ice hockey moved up to Division I in 2005)
    Rutgers University-Newark – men's volleyball (dropped to Division III in 2014)
    St. Lawrence University – men's and women's ice hockey
    SUNY Oneonta – men's soccer (dropped to Division III in 2006)
[/quo

Other great examples are Hobart (lax 1995 moved d1), RIT hockey,(early 2000's) Union Hockey.
I have lived in NY most of my life and I have never recalled Oneonta being d1 in anything. Hartwick is in Oneonta, maybe a misprint?

[jknezek]

If you look on their soccer history website they clearly played a D1 schedule in 2005

http://www.oneontaathletics.com/cumestats.aspx?path=msoc&year=2005

[D3ISGREAT]

I dont want to beat a dead horse so to speak, but the ability to fund an athlete at the d3 level is the biggest factor. Now you have programs that sell itself because they win (UMU, UWW, UMHB..etc) and some kids might look past the fact that it might cost alot out of pocket to go to UMU, and they will go there to win a Nat Champ. But for example, a kid John Carroll is recruiting and really likes JC, and they are tops on the list, with UMU being second. Now right off the top JC costs 15g more, so when its all said and done kid gets in both schools and he wants to got to JC but its going to cost him 20g out of pocket where as UMU might cost 10g out of pocket. Thats where teams will lose kids. Thats 40,000 more out of pocket the family will have to pay just to go to JC. Yes kids will choose to do that, but more often then not "its going to cost me less to go to UMU, and I will most likely win a nat champ within my four years.. once again a hard sell for JC coaching staff. My argument is not what the current top programs are doing, but this is why you wont see a big change anytime soon. I think its big possibility another Wisc State school will step up, with the loss of UWW coaching staff. However I think you could take UMU coaching staff and put them at Johns Hopkins, and they are not going to to do any better then the current staff there. I mean no disrespect either with that statement. Something needs to change at this level for other teams to have a shot. At this level you cant just say I am going to go get better players and we will win. Its not an even playing field like it is at D1 , where kids have to just qualify by NCAA standards to be eligible to get a scholarship.

At the D3 level its not like D1( as far as funding players), where programs are trying to build the best facilities in the country to compete against other league opponents. UMU stadium is nothing special, and places like UWW and UMHB and even cortland St have better facilities. Look at RPI's stadium, its borderline irresponsible for the d3 level. They never come close to selling out the place, and it cost a truckload of money to build. Now there was talk about them moving to 1aa, but i dont see that happening.

Sorry for the previous ambiguity. I was referencing RPI. There was talk about them moving up for football when they were in the process of building that new stadium. Already had hockey at d1 , They have a huge endwoment. Sorry for the confusion

[D3ISGREAT]

If you look on their soccer history website they clearly played a D1 schedule in 2005

http://www.oneontaathletics.com/cumestats.aspx?path=msoc&year=2005

Learn something every day! Thanks for pointing out. Admittedly I am not following soccer like i do football.

[narch]

Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

to my knowledge, davidson has never been d3...they just played a lot of d3's as a non-scholarship d1 football program...i could be wrong, though...

[HSCTiger fan]

Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

to my knowledge, davidson has never been d3...they just played a lot of d3's as a non-scholarship d1 football program

You are probably right. I was going on memory. I think Georgetown was D3 football too. But again going on memory.  Merry Christmas everyone!

[jknezek]

Davidson for example was D3 football and D1 in other sports and the moved up to FCS non scholarship. They are in the same football conference as Butler.

to my knowledge, davidson has never been d3...they just played a lot of d3's as a non-scholarship d1 football program

You are probably right. I was going on memory. I think Georgetown was D3 football too. But again going on memory.  Merry Christmas everyone!

Georgetown was D3 football, Davidson was not. Davidson Trustees in the late 80s voted to move the team to DIII but the team revolted and the school stayed or moved to DIA non scholarship. Prior to that they had offered need based scholarships only for a long time, probably the 70s. It was a real mishmash team.

Georgetown moved to D1A in the 90s when the rule talked about above took effect. You couldn't split divisions for football and basketball, even if it seemed like a grandfather situation. I don't know why.

[tigerfanalso]

anyone have any insight into how many full time coaches are on staff at most competitive D3 programs and what the recruiting budget might look like ? Does recruiting budget run through the admissions office or through the athletic office, or combination of both ?