FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

The answer cannot be "to have a chance to play for/win a national championship.

Why not? And I think with football it can be easier with the right admin support. No one blinks when a football programs brings in 80-100 or more freshman in DIII. It's insane and ridiculous. For a school like UMU, it's part of their identity and the school must support it for their own reasons. They only need to hit on 15-20% of those 80-100. For a school with UMU's recruiting ability, again supported by the university, that is possible. They simply have a better sales pitch than anyone else, the admin support to get the kids they want in the door, and the perks once they are in to keep them.

What are those perks? Good facilities, a full JV schedule, a large coaching staff, and a great football atmosphere. If you think you are going to play as a junior, then it's not impossible to see sparse JV action as a first year, lots as sophomore, some varsity game experience in clean up or special teams as a junior, and leadership as a senior. Or, if you are part of the elite 10-15 in that huge freshman class, you probably play a lot of JV as a first year and start suiting up for varsity as a sophomore, supplemented by JV time. Then junior and senior year you are on the field.

It's not like you only see the practice field for 2 or 3 years.

[HSCTiger74]

The answer cannot be "to have a chance to play for/win a national championship.

Why not? And I think with football it can be easier with the right admin support. No one blinks when a football programs brings in 80-100 or more freshman in DIII. It's insane and ridiculous. For a school like UMU, it's part of their identity and the school must support it for their own reasons. They only need to hit on 15-20% of those 80-100. For a school with UMU's recruiting ability, again supported by the university, that is possible. They simply have a better sales pitch than anyone else, the admin support to get the kids they want in the door, and the perks once they are in to keep them.

What are those perks? Good facilities, a full JV schedule, a large coaching staff, and a great football atmosphere. If you think you are going to play as a junior, then it's not impossible to see sparse JV action as a first year, lots as sophomore, some varsity game experience in clean up or special teams as a junior, and leadership as a senior. Or, if you are part of the elite 10-15 in that huge freshman class, you probably play a lot of JV as a first year and start suiting up for varsity as a sophomore, supplemented by JV time. Then junior and senior year you are on the field.

It's not like you only see the practice field for 2 or 3 years.

  Another factor may be the extensive coaching tree that has sprung up among Mt. Union graduates. I'm not saying that other institutions don't have this going for them as well, but I have been very impressed since I first started visiting this site how many Raider grads are high school coaches and actively steer their players toward D3 in general and Mt. Union in particular. I have even seen it said on the OAC board that some kids with plans to be coaches have gone to Mount knowing ahead of time that their playing time might not be that extensive, just because they want to learn as much as they can from Larry and Vince Kehres. That type of thing can only help a program.

[hscathletics]

It is a different division, a damn good division, but it defies all odds. How can one school be that good for soooooo long.
Does not happen at any other division, so why does/how can it happen at UMU. Are the coaches that much better ? Is the weight program that much better, etc It would seem to me that a coach could use the depth of the UMU program to their recruiting benefit if packaged and sold properly, but what the heck to I know ?

Actually in DIII it's more the norm than the outlier. UMU and UWW aren't even the best dynasties in DIII. Not even close. Look at Kenyon in men's and women's swimming. Wartburg/Augsburg in wrestling. Those streaks are ridiculous.

Then you get to the lesser dynasties, like UMU/UWW football or NCC in men's CC. Messiah in men's and women's soccer. If ever there was a game where luck dictates a lack of dynasties it's soccer, but not in DIII. Women's tennis has Emory and Williams. There are more.

It's just how DIII works. I have theories, but they generally lead back to two things. Transformative coach and admin support. The first gets the ball rolling, the second keeps it happening. The first is stupidly hard to find and, even given the second, harder to hold on to.

The only really unusual thing about football is the schools that succeed. In most sports, the highest academic schools in DIII are legitimate threats more years than not. This is because the schools attract athletes that could play at higher levels, but choose the academics in DIII. In football you get those kids, but there simply aren't enough to stack a team.

So in football the high academic schools are more bit players than the norm throughout the division.

Salisbury and Hobart had dynasties in men's lacrosse as well. Hobart was way back in the day as they are D1 in lax now, Salisbury was much more recent though.

[tigerFanAlso2]

All good points made. I had no idea UMU brings in 100 freshman each year, that is insane. How many locker rooms do they Have !!!!  Good for them. Whatever the reasons, UMU continues to amaze me.   

[jknezek]

All good points made. I had no idea UMU brings in 100 freshman each year, that is insane. How many locker rooms do they Have !!!!  Good for them. Whatever the reasons, UMU continues to amaze me.

It's not that unusual in DIII. Methodist had something like 125 freshman. I think UMU had 75 on their "first year roster" by the end of camp. You can see the numbers in Kickoff every August. Some schools must tell a lot of whoppers to get that many kids on campus. I think for UMU it's a lot of recruiting for who they really want, and the equivalent of a lot of walk-ons who want to give it a try at the DIII famous UMU...

[tigerFanAlso2]

125 kids to MEthodist ? I am learning some stuff. I can't relate. No way more than 20 of those kids are good enough to play.
HSC brings in 35 to 40 each year. Maybe HSC is the one screwing up !!!

[jknezek]

125 kids to MEthodist ? I am learning some stuff. I can't relate. No way more than 20 of those kids are good enough to play.
HSC brings in 35 to 40 each year. Maybe HSC is the one screwing up !!!

Comparing Methodists recent results to H-SC I'd say the evidence is in H-SC's favor. That being said, I thought H-SC brought in a few more annually. Closer to 50-60 first years. Can't remember my Kickoff password to check at the moment though. Schools that need admissions to stay solvent seem to be desperately trying to bring in massive football classes. First years are the most profitable students, so if they don't stick around after that first year it's ok. So long as they pay for on-campus housing, the mandatory food plan, and sit in the lowest level class, which are generally the largest as well. Very financially efficient to have large freshman classes that dwindle toward graduation.

[tigerFanAlso2]

I believe HSC brought in 37 last year. Only have room for 115 total players, or so, so no way HSC would ever bring in 60 freshman. Not enough locker room space, too few coaches to be able to handle the large numbers and there is no JV team. Coaches try not to bring in kids unless they are fairly certain the can contribute year 3, if not sooner.

[HSCTiger fan]

Methodist brought in over 170 freshmen!  Ridiculous.  2nd year in a row they have done so.   The most freshmen I recall HSC bringing in was 46 in 2010.

The fact Mt Union brings in all of the great players year end and year is more remarkable considering the OAC does not allow off campus recruiting!

[tigerFanAlso2]

if they don't recruit off campus how in the hell does this machine keep ticking ? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

if they don't recruit off campus how in the hell does this machine keep ticking ?

I believe HSCTiger fan was mistaken about OAC and off-campus recruiting.  AD Larry Kehres personally flew to Florida to watch one coveted recruit play (he got him).

[tigerFanAlso2]

That makes more sense; how would any college recruit effectively if coaches were not allowed to leave campus to visit hs kids and their parents

[HSCTiger fan]

I was told this by a coach at HSC.

This is all I could find. It may be different now - From D3Boards.com 2010

--- Quote from: Small but Slow on January 28, 2010, 10:10:37 pm ---Wonder if they can use the trip into the area as a recruiting opportunity?  OAC rules used to prohibit off campus recruiting, but a text to a recruit that they are in Miami watching a former player in the Super Bowl could be a valuable recruiting angle.

The dynasty was firmly in place prior to 2010.

[HSCTiger74]

  Best wishes for a Merry Christmas to all the ODAC posters. Have a great holiday!

[jknezek]

Merry Christmas to all. May your stocking be full of everything but ODAC Championships. Not enough of those for me to share!