FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCTiger fan]

to illustrate my point about two poor recruiting classes back to back, this is the class breakdown for HSC in the current two deep rooster;

offense has 1 sr; 5 jrs.; 14 so and 2 fr./defense has 10 sr; 3 jr; 6 so and 3 fr.

lack of experience is hard to overcome.

Do you think attrition is higher in recent years compared to past seasons?  Not only for your school, but across the board.  I recently read in article where high school football participation across the state of VA is down this year and some schools have removed the sport or limiting their season to varsity only or even 8 man.  Is that a trend you think is impacting colleges as well?

High School football participation seems to be down nationwide ... I've seen stories from NJ to NV.  A high profile school in NC, East Chapel Hill High, is noteworthy for not fielding a team this year ... simply not enough students interested in playing.

East Chapel Hill is a 4A High School. It's one of the 100 largest schools in NC. I coach middle school football. I was talking to referees at our game the other day and they were saying that they are struggling to work JV games because so few schools now have a JV team.

In my opinion the states need to step in and change rules to help get more participants. If you play football in hs in NC you play and practice much more than D3 teams. In NC the teams can hit in the spring, have 6:00 AM practices in January, February and March, summer practice starts the week after school ends, and then they play an 11 game schedule. Throw in the issues around concussions it's not shocking to see numbers are down. Beyond that teacher pay in NC is horrible. So as a school system you're faced with hiring who you can. Not necessarily the best candidates or guys who can motivate and excite kids to play.

When I played in HS we had no spring practice no summer workouts and played 10 regular season games.  We started football August 1st, basketball November 1st or when football ended, and baseball February 1st.  There was no fall baseball, summer basketball, any soccer or lacrosse. Way too many kids specialize thinking they're going to nfl, nba, or mlb. It's frustrating and there are no easy answers.

[wally_wabash]

to illustrate my point about two poor recruiting classes back to back, this is the class breakdown for HSC in the current two deep rooster;

offense has 1 sr; 5 jrs.; 14 so and 2 fr./defense has 10 sr; 3 jr; 6 so and 3 fr.

lack of experience is hard to overcome.

Do you think attrition is higher in recent years compared to past seasons?  Not only for your school, but across the board.  I recently read in article where high school football participation across the state of VA is down this year and some schools have removed the sport or limiting their season to varsity only or even 8 man.  Is that a trend you think is impacting colleges as well?

High School football participation seems to be down nationwide ... I've seen stories from NJ to NV.  A high profile school in NC, East Chapel Hill High, is noteworthy for not fielding a team this year ... simply not enough students interested in playing.

East Chapel Hill is a 4A High School. It's one of the 100 largest schools in NC. I coach middle school football. I was talking to referees at our game the other day and they were saying that they are struggling to work JV games because so few schools now have a JV team.

In my opinion the states need to step in and change rules to help get more participants. If you play football in hs in NC you play and practice much more than D3 teams. In NC the teams can hit in the spring, have 6:00 AM practices in January, February and March, summer practice starts the week after school ends, and then they play an 11 game schedule. Throw in the issues around concussions it's not shocking to see numbers are down. Beyond that teacher pay in NC is horrible. So as a school system you're faced with hiring who you can. Not necessarily the best candidates or guys who can motivate and excite kids to play.

When I played in HS we had no spring practice no summer workouts and played 10 regular season games.  We started football August 1st, basketball November 1st or when football ended, and baseball February 1st.  There was no fall baseball, summer basketball, any soccer or lacrosse. Way too many kids specialize thinking they're going to nfl, nba, or mlb. It's frustrating and there are no easy answers.

Enabling and/or encouraging families to make their kids play high school football needs to be part of a legislative agenda?  Come on now. 

[tigerFanAlso2]

JK

I need your predictions for this weeks play in the ODAC

TigerFan

What you just stated explains why participation is down in NC. HS is the last time 99.9% of the student athletes can play multiple sports and they should be allowed to do so. Back in the day I would not allow my kids to play football until age 10; soccer was their sport in the fall. My oldest was asked to try out for the elite team (which meant travel most of the year) he was selected to join the team. At the first team meeting the coach set forth expectations, one was for them not to play any other sport and to concentrate only on soccer, we are talking 9 year old kids. He elected not to join the team because he could not/would not agree not to play any other sport.  And that my friends is how it goes in most sports and it is unfortunate. Let the kids participate in any sport they want and allow them to decide which sport is most fun for them; do not allow any coach of any sport to take that pleasure/experience away.

[jknezek]

JK

I need your predictions for this weeks play in the ODAC

TigerFan

Ferrum rolls Apprentice 42-10
CNU tops H-SC 28-24
W&L labors past Sewanee 24-17
RMC fights past Averett 28-21
Stevenson beats Bridgewater 35-21
Shenandoah beats NC Wes 45-35
Guilford hammers Methodist 52-21

Overall, I think there are 4 possibly tight games this week, HSC, W&L, RMC and Shenandoah. Bridgewater is interesting, but I think Stevenson is pretty good despite the heavy loss to a very good Frostburg. And Ferrum and Guilford should cruise past weak opponents.

[jknezek]

At the first team meeting the coach set forth expectations, one was for them not to play any other sport and to concentrate only on soccer, we are talking 9 year old kids. He elected not to join the team because he could not/would not agree not to play any other sport.  And that my friends is how it goes in most sports and it is unfortunate. Let the kids participate in any sport they want and allow them to decide which sport is most fun for them; do not allow any coach of any sport to take that pleasure/experience away.

This is driving me nuts also. I have several coaching licenses from U.S. Soccer, grassroots level stuff, though I may go for the lowest level pro license in the next year or two because I enjoy coaching. My boys are playing town ball for the big Birmingham area club program. Academy, or travel teams, start next year. One of the pushes is to have the kids focus on soccer. Even this year, in town ball, I have 2 practices a week and the kids have an optional "pre-academy" practice they can go to. 12 weeks of games, 4 weeks of pre-game practice.

So I have kids on my team, starting next week, will attend 3 75 minute practices a week plus 1-2 games on Saturday. At 7 and 8 years old. There are two seasons a year, each one 4 months long. That's 8 of 12 months. It's insane. It's almost like we're trying to burn these kids out before they even get to h.s.

I don't send my kids to the extra practice. They do taekwondo one or two days a week during soccer season, 2 or 3 days a week outside of soccer. If they want to quit soccer after this season and do something else, I'm all in favor. I'm unsure my kids will play travel ball like I did. They don't see to have the passion or the athletics for it. So I think it would be silly to push. So long as they are doing something, and learning to be healthy, it's good enough for me.

Youth sports are out of hand. All of them. And the kids are paying the penalty.

[HSCTiger fan]

to illustrate my point about two poor recruiting classes back to back, this is the class breakdown for HSC in the current two deep rooster;

offense has 1 sr; 5 jrs.; 14 so and 2 fr./defense has 10 sr; 3 jr; 6 so and 3 fr.

lack of experience is hard to overcome.

Do you think attrition is higher in recent years compared to past seasons?  Not only for your school, but across the board.  I recently read in article where high school football participation across the state of VA is down this year and some schools have removed the sport or limiting their season to varsity only or even 8 man.  Is that a trend you think is impacting colleges as well?

High School football participation seems to be down nationwide … I've seen stories from NJ to NV.  A high profile school in NC, East Chapel Hill High, is noteworthy for not fielding a team this year … simply not enough students interested in playing.

East Chapel Hill is a 4A High School. It’s one of the 100 largest schools in NC. I coach middle school football. I was talking to referees at our game the other day and they were saying that they are struggling to work JV games because so few schools now have a JV team.

In my opinion the states need to step in and change rules to help get more participants. If you play football in hs in NC you play and practice much more than D3 teams. In NC the teams can hit in the spring, have 6:00 AM practices in January, February and March, summer practice starts the week after school ends, and then they play an 11 game schedule. Throw in the issues around concussions it’s not shocking to see numbers are down. Beyond that teacher pay in NC is horrible. So as a school system you’re faced with hiring who you can. Not necessarily the best candidates or guys who can motivate and excite kids to play.

When I played in HS we had no spring practice no summer workouts and played 10 regular season games.  We started football August 1st, basketball November 1st or when football ended, and baseball February 1st.  There was no fall baseball, summer basketball, any soccer or lacrosse. Way too many kids specialize thinking they’re going to nfl, nba, or mlb. It’s frustrating and there are no easy answers.

Enabling and/or encouraging families to make their kids play high school football needs to be part of a legislative agenda?  Come on now.

The state already regulates ALL High School sports in NC. As I assume they do in Indiana. I'm not suggesting legislation.  The NC HS Athletic Association decides what our kids can and cannot do as far as practice is concerned. The state association allows spring practices, summer practices and 11 regular season games. At what time did I suggest the state make kids play football?  The point is football in NC is a sport that makes it difficult to just be a kid, get a summer job, or to take a vacation with your family. If you play in NC you play from January to late October and that's if you're team does not make the playoffs. Maybe if the commitment was not as high - forcing kids to make decisions like - summer job or football there might be more participants.

[tigerFanAlso2]

JK

We are correct; youth sports are out of control, except for football. Starts in late August over with last week in October; basically 2 months.
Baseball, Basketball, & soccer are pretty much year round.
Even at the D3 level, baseball and lax are allowed a fall season which I have a problem with. Let the kids enjoy their college experience and don't force them to play their sport 6 months of the year; last I checked they are not getting paid and 99.9% are not signing big league contracts.

[wally_wabash]

At what time did I suggest the state make kids play football? 

You cannot be serious right now.  70 minutes ago you said:

In my opinion the states need to step in and change rules to help get more participants.

Good grief. 

Anyway, if NC's rules make it technically legal for schools to practice and play year round, schools are still free to choose to not practice and play year round.  And maybe they shouldn't, particularly if fielding a football team matters to any particular school and an easily identifiable cause for the drop in participation is that kids and families don't want to commit to practicing year round.  The problem isn't with the regulations (or lack thereof), the problem- as jk has sagely noted- is the culture of youth sports.  You know why a kid can't just be a kid or get a summer job?  Because he's got some meathead coach in his ear preaching some horseplop about rise and grind and how the hypothetical other guy is out there somewhere pushing up a weight while you're not and blah blah blah. 

[jknezek]

JK

We are correct; youth sports are out of control, except for football. Starts in late August over with last week in October; basically 2 months.
Baseball, Basketball, & soccer are pretty much year round.
Even at the D3 level, baseball and lax are allowed a fall season which I have a problem with. Let the kids enjoy their college experience and don't force them to play their sport 6 months of the year; last I checked they are not getting paid and 99.9% are not signing big league contracts.

I don't know many h.s. or pop warner type sports teams where football isn't year round in one sense or another. Spring practices, weight room charts, 7v7 seasons, summer practices. Football just doesn't have full contact games all year round, and that's mainly because you would have no players left if you tried. Football is not the exception to this rule. Here in Alabama, h.s. football practices start in July, the state tournaments end in Dec. Spring practices run Feb through April. 7v7 season runs March through June.

It's all the same.

[tigerFanAlso2]

I'm talking youth football, not HS football. In the Richmond area youth football starts and ends as I stated and there are no 7 on 7, etc. throughout the year.
I'm sure youth football is at a totally different level in the deep south, but not here

[HSCTiger fan]

At what time did I suggest the state make kids play football? 

You cannot be serious right now.  70 minutes ago you said:

In my opinion the states need to step in and change rules to help get more participants.

Good grief. 

Anyway, if NC's rules make it technically legal for schools to practice and play year round, schools are still free to choose to not practice and play year round.  And maybe they shouldn't, particularly if fielding a football team matters to any particular school and an easily identifiable cause for the drop in participation is that kids and families don't want to commit to practicing year round.  The problem isn't with the regulations (or lack thereof), the problem- as jk has sagely noted- is the culture of youth sports.  You know why a kid can't just be a kid or get a summer job?  Because he's got some meathead coach in his ear preaching some horseplop about rise and grind and how the hypothetical other guy is out there somewhere pushing up a weight while you're not and blah blah blah.

Having a state agency change rules that makes it easier for kids to play football is a far cry from making legislation to make kids play football.

I could really care less about your opinion on something you know nothing about. I live here. I know probably 30 head coaches that are some of the finest men I know. They do ALL the practices they are allowed and I would consider only a few of them meatheads.

Kudos to you Wally for figuring out what ails football participation. Youth coaches. That must be it. Cannot be a combination of factors. You're right - must be the coaches or the culture they promote.  Now that I know this I can go tell my local parks and rec and tell them to hire better football coaches. Funny thing is they will probably think I'm nuts since they have not had a team in 4 years. Damn those rec league coaches that don't exist for ruining football participation.  Damn the culture they promote to NO ONE.

[hasanova]

Final CNU 17, HSC 13

The Tigers were driving for the winning score, but couldn't get it in.  Sounds like it was a tough game.

[HSCTiger fan]

It was a tough game. HSC had their chances but could never punch it in.

Are others noticing how poor the refs have been this year?  NOT just against HSC but in both our games the refs have been horrible for both teams.  I believe holding has to be blatant to be called. If you breathe to heavy on receivers they call pass interference. I think we've had the same head ref 2 weekends in a row. I can't imagine it being worse but there's always next week.

[jknezek]

W&L offense finally started to come alive in the second half today at Sewanee. It was tough sledding in the first half but looked good with some adjustments in the second. The defense again was stout. If the injury bug doesn't bite and the offense keeps trending up, the Generals will be tough to handle again this year. Maryville comes to Lex next week. It will be interesting to see if W&L will keep the offense moving or revert to the first 6 quarters of the season.

[jknezek]

It was a tough game. HSC had their chances but could never punch it in.

Are others noticing how poor the refs have been this year?  NOT just against HSC but in both our games the refs have been horrible for both teams.  I believe holding has to be blatant to be called. If you breathe to heavy on receivers they call pass interference. I think we've had the same head ref 2 weekends in a row. I can't imagine it being worse but there's always next week.

-8 yards rushing. I get they were -50 on sacks, but that's 42 yards on 26 rushing plays. I just don't see how that works in an ODAC season. The QB can't have 7 almost mistake free games in a row, and that is what will be needed to win the conference if you can't rush at all. Thats a lot to put on one player.