FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Coming from Catholic's perspective, it certainly didn't make anybody at Catholic feel good to know that Shenandoah forfeited. I believe everybody still views that as a loss, knowing that we got beat on the field. I really wouldn't want to be awarded a win if my team was beat, unless there was blatant cheating by the opposing team. I don't think you should hold a coaching staff and a whole team of student athletes accountable for one person's mistake. If there is negligence on the program's part, then that is a different story.

Catholic going from 2-8 to 3-7 with a forfeit win is a little different from BC going from 6-2 to 7-1 with two weeks to go.  Sure, we wouldn't feel right about it (seeing we got it handed to us on the field), but the kid was the third-leading tackler on the team in the game - so he certainly played a part.

[Snakehandler]

E&H has the worst pass defense in the conference.

And BC's game plan was to pound'em with the run. Ugh!

[algernon]

And if they don't we will have a 4 or 5 way-tie for the ODAC Championship.  Don't hold your breath because W&L is "beat-up" and E&H has the worst pass defense in the conference. Who does E&H they play in Week 11? There is still plenty of football to be played.

Believe me BC is still the KING, ask W&L how they felt (literally) on Sunday.

Well, I suppose that it's OK for any team's fans to think of their team as King.

A 5-way tie would be cool.  This is the scenario for a 5-way tie:

November 4, 2006
Bridgewater @ Randolph Macon
Catholic @ Guilford
Emory & Henry @ Washington & Lee

November 11, 2006
Bridgewater @ Catholic
Guilford @ Emory & Henry
Randolph Macon @ Hampden-Sydney

The head-to-head tie-breaker would have each of the 5 teams at 2-2 versus the other 4 teams.  The point system would leave all 5 teams still tied.  The "Rose Bowl rule" would leave W&L and Guilford tied, since neither has ever been to the NCAAs, and the tie between W&L and Guilford would be broken by the results of the W&L v. Guilford game .... sending W&L to the NCAAs.

The only way that Guilford goes to the playoffs is with the above results with one alteration:  RMC beats HSC.  In that case, there's only a 4-way tie (HSC at 3-3), with Guilford and Emory & Henry at 2-1 vs. the other 3 teams, these 2 teams still even after the point-system tie-breaker, and Guilford getting the nod on the basis of the "Rose Bowl rule."  Quaker fans will be steadily rooting for Guilford & Bridgewater .... and against W&L and HSC.

[patcummings]

To all...

I hope you can make a sincere effort to get to Salem for the Stagg Bowl - the Stone Station tailgate has truly become an institution and they continue to top themselves every year.  Last year with the chicken quarters on that monster grill was a sight to behold. 

The 4pm tailgate should make it a not-too-tiring day.  Leave from just about anywhere in within driving range by about 8 or 9am and you'll have a hoot of a good time.

Not to mention all the D3football.com guys stopping by to chat or be scolded.

[Jacketlawyer]

To all...

I hope you can make a sincere effort to get to Salem for the Stagg Bowl - the Stone Station tailgate has truly become an institution and they continue to top themselves every year.  Last year with the chicken quarters on that monster grill was a sight to behold. 

The 4pm tailgate should make it a not-too-tiring day.  Leave from just about anywhere in within driving range by about 8 or 9am and you'll have a hoot of a good time.

Not to mention all the D3football.com guys stopping by to chat or be scolded.

Pat, forgive me if this is posted elsewhere (and it probably is), but when is the date fot the Alonzo Stagg bowl?   Sometimes I have to read things on the fly and don't have the time to read everything as thoroughly as I prefer.

[Pat Coleman]

Top story in Notables:
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2006/10/29/Stagg+Bowl+kickoff+time+set

Yes, D-III players do NOT go through the NCAA clearinghouse.

[Llamaguy]

Coming from Catholic's perspective, it certainly didn't make anybody at Catholic feel good to know that Shenandoah forfeited. I believe everybody still views that as a loss, knowing that we got beat on the field. I really wouldn't want to be awarded a win if my team was beat, unless there was blatant cheating by the opposing team. I don't think you should hold a coaching staff and a whole team of student athletes accountable for one person's mistake. If there is negligence on the program's part, then that is a different story.

Catholic going from 2-8 to 3-7 with a forfeit win is a little different from BC going from 6-2 to 7-1 with two weeks to go.  Sure, we wouldn't feel right about it (seeing we got it handed to us on the field), but the kid was the third-leading tackler on the team in the game - so he certainly played a part.

I still contend that the only team with a legit reason for the forfeit would be Greensboro. The ineligible kid is credited with a pass breakup on 4th and 7 at the Guilford 10 yard-line in the 4th quarter. Guilford went on to win that game in OT by 6 points. Would another DB have made the same play? We will never know. But it sure would have made the controversial fieldgoal much less important.

[Jacketlawyer]

I'm in!  Jacketlawyer, I got a chance to enjoy the Stone Station food on October 14 and let me tell you, it's good!

I've wanted to hang at Stone Station since I started reading about it a while back!!   I'd try to attend the R-M version of it this year in Ashland, if I wasn't off to DC for business.

But I'm old fashioned, and will wait for an invitation. . . even though this posting could easily be construed as shameless groveling for same. . .

[muchacho]

Catholic going from 2-8 to 3-7 with a forfeit win is a little different from BC going from 6-2 to 7-1 with two weeks to go.  Sure, we wouldn't feel right about it (seeing we got it handed to us on the field), but the kid was the third-leading tackler on the team in the game - so he certainly played a part.

The only difference there is in the record of the teams. Regardless of your team's record, you shouldn't want to accept a foreit win. How many times have people heard, "one person doesn't win or lose a game...its a team effort." I think that applies in situations like this. Giving a team a loss because of the inappropriate actions of one player isn't right. The NCAA might decide to give Guilford's opponents a win on paper, but my point is that it doesn't matter. BC knows they got beat, and its not because Guilford was cheating. They were playing by the rules as far as they knew, and its not like it was an issue that affected more than one player.

[Snakehandler]

Unfortunately,

One bad apple will spoil the whole barrel. 

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Catholic going from 2-8 to 3-7 with a forfeit win is a little different from BC going from 6-2 to 7-1 with two weeks to go.  Sure, we wouldn't feel right about it (seeing we got it handed to us on the field), but the kid was the third-leading tackler on the team in the game - so he certainly played a part.

The only difference there is in the record of the teams. Regardless of your team's record, you shouldn't want to accept a foreit win. How many times have people heard, "one person doesn't win or lose a game...its a team effort." I think that applies in situations like this. Giving a team a loss because of the inappropriate actions of one player isn't right. The NCAA might decide to give Guilford's opponents a win on paper, but my point is that it doesn't matter. BC knows they got beat, and its not because Guilford was cheating. They were playing by the rules as far as they knew, and its not like it was an issue that affected more than one player.

The NCAA rule seems pretty clear;

According to the NCAA, the penalties involved in the use of an ineligible student-athlete include declaring the student-athlete in question ineligible for further competition and forfeiting any contests in which the student-athlete participated.

I will have to disagree with you on the "BC knows they got beat, and its not because Guilford was cheating."

Sure, we lost 33-28.  And yes, Guilford wasn't cheating.  But you can't deny we don't know what would have happened had they not had that starting defensive back for the game.  I think that's why the NCAA is clear in its verbage and doesn't bring the "how important the player is" card into the mix.

Point is, Guilford might not have cheated, but the player did.  And like you said, "it's a team effort."  Shouldn't the team be accountable?

And I know I'm about to make an assumption, but I mean come on, you can't tell me that player told none of his teammates about him being at Emory & Henry last year.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

FYI, I'm still discussing this issue NOT to drag Guilford through the mud or because I think Bridgewater should or can still get the GC-BC game forfeited.  I just think it's a facinating case that's worth discussing.  That's why I'd like to hear the ODAC and/or NCAA's reasoning for not taking action.

[Llamaguy]

I'm in!  Jacketlawyer, I got a chance to enjoy the Stone Station food on October 14 and let me tell you, it's good!

I've wanted to hang at Stone Station since I started reading about it a while back!!   I'd try to attend the R-M version of it this year in Ashland, if I wasn't off to DC for business.

But I'm old fashioned, and will wait for an invitation. . . even though this posting could easily be construed as shameless groveling for same. . .

You are a veteran poster Jacketlawyer. You know you don't need an invitation to come to Stone Station, everyone is welcome! Not to mention at the Stagg we are all on the same team, The ODAC team. Here is your formal invite. Heck if you can make it up on Friday night I hear there may be a D3football poster's party at Hooter's already in the planning stages.

[Snakehandler]

I hear there may be a D3football poster's party at Hooter's already in the planning stages.

Then that's where you ought to get a room Friday night.  There are several places down the street towards the Civic Center.

[muchacho]

kid...I think I agreed with your point on the NCAA rules. If its brought to their attention, I think they would have to make the ruling according to the bylaws.
I just disagree that things should be done that way. Nobody knows how the game would have played out without that player or any player involved in a game for that matter. However, I would rather see things settled on the field instead of through rule books. In this case and in the Shenandoah case, I don't think the violation warrants a forfeit. Then again I am being subjective in this matter, where the NCAA rules are supposedly not.

Its possible that his teammates knew he was at Emory and Henry, but were they aware that it constituted a violation. If his plan was to deceive Guilford in order to retain eligibility, then theres also a chance he decided not to share where he had been the previous year with his teammates as well.