FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

FYI - I spoke with one of Guilford's coaches Sunday while we were both attending a cookout at a mutual friend's home.  He said WR Joe Joyner is coming back next fall to complete his eligibility (he can graduate next spring) and DB Taylor Baker plans to play football again after taking a year off.  He also said recruiting prospects for 2007 look "very good."   When you couple all these things with a relatively small number of graduating seniors (eight, I think), the outlook is very positive for Quaker football again next season.  Granted, losing Barnette, Rushing, Frazier, Smallwood, Fortier and others will be tough, but there is a lot of talent returning. The ODAC has definitely improved, but after going 5-5 and 6-4, I sincerely think the Quakers are poised for seven or more wins in 2007.

Yeah, but are you going to be at the "cookout" (--read that --tailgate) that counts?  At the Stag Bowl with Stone Station?  It would be so great if you could come up and help us host the fans of the 2 teams who get the honor of playing in the Championship game!!

Hey olinemom, the Stagg Bowl is on my calendar, but sometimes things get pretty hectic that time of year.  With luck - and planning, I'll be there!

[Olinemom]

FYI - I spoke with one of Guilford's coaches Sunday while we were both attending a cookout at a mutual friend's home.  He said WR Joe Joyner is coming back next fall to complete his eligibility (he can graduate next spring) and DB Taylor Baker plans to play football again after taking a year off.  He also said recruiting prospects for 2007 look "very good."   When you couple all these things with a relatively small number of graduating seniors (eight, I think), the outlook is very positive for Quaker football again next season.  Granted, losing Barnette, Rushing, Frazier, Smallwood, Fortier and others will be tough, but there is a lot of talent returning. The ODAC has definitely improved, but after going 5-5 and 6-4, I sincerely think the Quakers are poised for seven or more wins in 2007.

Yeah, but are you going to be at the "cookout" (--read that --tailgate) that counts?  At the Stag Bowl with Stone Station?  It would be so great if you could come up and help us host the fans of the 2 teams who get the honor of playing in the Championship game!!

Hey olinemom, the Stagg Bowl is on my calendar, but sometimes things get pretty hectic that time of year.  With luck - and planning, I'll be there!

Thinking positive thoughts then for your arrival!!

[tigerfanalso]

Question for all. Does the ODAC have a chance to field a program able to compete nationaly on a consistant basis? I see the task as being difficult at best given the number of DIII programs in Va., plus all the DII and IAA programs. Seems to me that the talent gets spread too thin. Bridgewater fields the best team year in year but seemingly has a difficult time outside of
the region with that great 2001 team excluded. Your thoughts and comments when you have an opportunity !!!

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Question for all. Does the ODAC have a chance to field a program able to compete nationaly on a consistant basis? I see the task as being difficult at best given the number of DIII programs in Va., plus all the DII and IAA programs. Seems to me that the talent gets spread too thin. Bridgewater fields the best team year in year but seemingly has a difficult time outside of
the region with that great 2001 team excluded. Your thoughts and comments when you have an opportunity !!!

I can only speak for the Eagles...

Bridgewater is 10-6 in the NCAA playoffs since 2000 (7-6 if you don't want to count 2001) ... and we're 16-7 against ranked opponents since 2000.

Out of region since 2000, we have a 6-2 record, with wins against Rowan, Widener, King's, Lycoming, and Hanover twice.  Our two losses were to Mount Union.

That seems pretty impressive to me.

[tigerfanalso]

Thanks for your response. I'm certainly not a historian but it just seems that the ODAC representative has lost badly in the playoffs the past several years. I don't remember details, to whom they lost to, I just remember some sound defeats.

I guess my question is this: The same schools at the DIII level seemingly go far into the playoffs each year. None of those schools are from this area.
Does the number of DIII, DII and 1AA schools located in Va & NC prevent a school in our area from competing nationaly on a more regular basis ?

[Jacketlawyer]

I guess my question is this: The same schools at the DIII level seemingly go far into the playoffs each year. None of those schools are from this area.
Does the number of DIII, DII and 1AA schools located in Va & NC prevent a school in our area from competing nationaly on a more regular basis ?

I think this is a discussion worth having on this board, and I'm glad TFA is bringing it up.  I've often wondered why MUC seems to destroy everyone in sight on a frequent basis, while ODAC teams seem to lack this kind of dominance.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I guess my question is this: The same schools at the DIII level seemingly go far into the playoffs each year. None of those schools are from this area.
Does the number of DIII, DII and 1AA schools located in Va & NC prevent a school in our area from competing nationaly on a more regular basis ?

I think this is a discussion worth having on this board, and I'm glad TFA is bringing it up.  I've often wondered why MUC seems to destroy everyone in sight on a frequent basis, while ODAC teams seem to lack this kind of dominance.

Apologies for being defensive about Bridgewater.   They've posted the third-most wins in Division III since 2000, and I think they lends the ODAC and the state of Virginia some credit.

But to speak on the issue of Virginia football, here is my take...

There are currently 23 college and universities with football programs.  Nine Division III schools, seven Division I-AA, two Division I-A, two Division II, two USCAA and one NAIA.  I would bet that most states have as many (or more).  Perhaps less DIII and DIAA, but then more DIA.  So I don't think the amount of schools in the state has anything to do with it.

Interesting to note that of the 23 schools in Virginia, only one will be playing after this weekend: Virginia Tech (in a Bowl Game).

I think the main reason why the state of Virginia isn't contending for national championships (on any level) year in and year out if because of the talent in the state.  Yes, we have "Tidewater" ... but the talent from there can't carry the whole state.  When compared to other states, Virginia probably wouldn't even be in the top 10.  Ohio, Florida, California, Texas and Pennsylvania would probably be states contending for the top five in talent.  Then you have Michigan, Tennessee, Georgia, Wisconsin and Oklahoma for the next five.  Virginia would be considered from No. 11 to No. 15, more than likely.

[Jacketlawyer]

No offense meant toward the Eagles.  They've carried the standard for the ODAC very well over the past few years, and certainly better than any other school in the ODAC when it comes to the playoffs. 8)

Of course, if I'm wrong about this, somebody please correct me!!  Hate being wrong!

But I'm not afraid to be, either.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I think the following proves my point.

Only nine of the 25 players who earned All-ODAC first team honors are from Virginia...

Florida - Josh Vogelbach, QB
North Carolina - Chris Barnette, WR
North Carolina - Micah Rushing, WR
North Carolina - Colton Ward, WR
Virginia - Charlie Omick, RB
Florida - Winston Young, RB
Virginia - Dane Williams, TE
Virginia - Matt Capriani, OL
North Carolina - Keaton Culver, OL
Virginia - Ben Niemaseck, OL
Virginia - Paul Williams, OL
Alabama - Hunter Whitfield, OL
Virginia - Tony Burt, DL
North Carolina - Matt Baldwin, DL
New Jersey - Gamal Alwan, DL
California - Bryant Fulk, DL
Delaware - Brandon Borst, LB
Pennsylvania - Bill Gross, LB
Virginia - Marshall Doss, LB
Maryland - Earl Chaptman, CB
Georgia - Mark Snoddy, CB
Virginia - Desmond Jalloh, S
Virginia - Nick Olivero, S
West Virginia - Ben Long, K
North Carolina - Travis Frazer, P

It's worth noting that Bridgewater and Hampden-Sydney combine for seven of those nine All-ODAC players from the state of Virginia.

[patcummings]

Question for all. Does the ODAC have a chance to field a program able to compete nationaly on a consistant basis? I see the task as being difficult at best given the number of DIII programs in Va., plus all the DII and IAA programs. Seems to me that the talent gets spread too thin. Bridgewater fields the best team year in year but seemingly has a difficult time outside of
the region with that great 2001 team excluded. Your thoughts and comments when you have an opportunity !!!

I don't think you accurately quantify how rare such extended successes are...and don't realize how impressive Bridgewater has been.

Mount Union is a freak exception.  St. John's has been good for a while with a national title.  Mary Hardin-Baylor is an example of a team that was really built from nothing and turned into a contender.  Linfield obviously struggled without their former D1 quarterback.  Rowan is always the Beast of the East, but rarely more than that.

All of that being said, when you consider how many schools there are in D3, Bridgewater's success of the last five years is what teams should shoot for, not trying to be one of the extreme outliers that are near impossible to match.

[muchacho]

I think the dominance shown by certain D3 programs reflects what happens on other levels of football too.
Anybody see Youngstown State beat the Dukes on Saturday night? Tressel might have left for Ohio State, but they still have a winning tradition at that school that keeps them in it.
Look at the D1 "Bowl Subdivision" and their BCS mess. Is there any surprise that Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, Florida and USC are in the top 10. Now each year there will be surprises like Boise State and Arkansas, but the top teams in each division will likely always be dominated by the power schools.
D3 football has its power schools too. The question with a team like Bridgewater is...are they ready to make the jump to a perennial contender like St Johns, Mount Union, or Rowan, or are they at the end of an amazing streak.
Remember Maryland had 31 wins in Ralph Friedgen's first 3 years. Its an impressive feat the Terps had, but look at how they have been since then with 18 wins during the last 3. Sustained dominance is tough, and I think that is what Bridgewater is facing. The rest of the ODAC has a long way to go before they even consider themselves on par with Bridgewater in terms of their national presence.

[stickyfingers]

Being from the tidewater area, I never heard of any of these Division 3 schools.  Of course CNU did not have a program yet but I relied on what I saw on tv and I-AA programs.  I was accepted into Hampton University and it came down to them and Bridgewater.  I didn't know about Bridgewater until March or April of my senior year in high school.  BC offered the better financial package so i chose them.  I believe we have to make that D-3 presence known early instead of relying on the guys who turn to d-3 as a last resort.  Of course it is hard to compete against scholarship schools but the presence to know that our D3 schools are available is a step in the right direction.  I don't know if we send letters out to prospects in there junior year but it could catch their attention.  

[hasanova]

A state I understand when it comes to DIII football success is Wisconsin.  As far as I know, U of W in Madison is the only D-IA program in the state, then it drops to the DIII WIAC for state supported schools.   Imagine if there were 10 schools just like CNU in Virginia, all with great resources AND in-state tuition.  It would be the equivalent of JMU, W&M, ODU, George Mason, Viriginia State, Norfolk State and Radford all having DIII programs.  Then where would you get your players?

Even if NC had two public D-IA programs in UNC-CH and NCSU, imagine DIII programs at Appalachian State, Western Carolina, ECU, UNCG, UNCA, UNCC, UNCW, UNCP, NCCU, NCA&T, WSSU, ECSU (Elizabeth City) and FSU (Fayetteville).  What would happen to the private school DIII programs in our state?

I do think the talent is diluted in some states.  By my count, there are soon to be 31 colleges and universities in NC with football (ASU, ECU, WCU, Davidson, Mars Hill, Lenoir-Rhyne, Catawba, Gardner-Webb, Elon, Guilford, Greensboro, Methodist, NC Wesleyan, UNC-CH, NCSU, Duke, WFU, WSSU, NCCU, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Chowan, UNCP, Brevard, Campbell, Elizabeth City, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, Wingate and NC A&T)!    

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

By my count, there are soon to be 31 colleges and universities in NC with football (ASU, ECU, WCU, Davidson, Mars Hill, Lenoir-Rhyne, Catawba, Gardner-Webb, Elon, Guilford, Greensboro, Methodist, NC Wesleyan, UNC-CH, NCSU, Duke, WFU, WSSU, NCCU, Shaw, St. Augustine's, Chowan, UNCP, Brevard, Campbell, Elizabeth City, Fayetteville State, Johnson C. Smith, Livingstone, Wingate and NC A&T)!    

How many of those are in the top 40 or 50 of their divisions?  Is WFU the only one (this year)?

[tigerfanalso]

Not down playing Bridgewater at all. In fact I have nothing but high praises for them and all of their accomplishments. My question really has nothing to do with Bridgewater, just wondering if an ODAC school has the opportunity to take it's program to the "next level". No question Bridgewater is much closer than any other ODAC school, but no where close to the true powers of DIII. Maybe cost of education, academic standards, geographic location(s), level of HS play in the state as compared to other states, all play into the equation, but I still wonder how MU, Whitewater, St. Johns and others seem to go very far into the playoffs seemingly every year and when they do get beat seemingly it is never a "blowout". So how are these schools able to reload with talent every year(seemingly). What are they doing differently? Or are those schools just in a prolonged very good cycle ?