FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

We have further surmised that there has admittedly been hanky panky with aid packages and admission waivers for athletes in the past.  But Pat is convinced those days are over.  I admit I am not up to speed as to when the reforms were instituted, but I wonder if there is a correlation to the ascendancy of BC football, and now what appears to be a leveling and more competative (sic) league with several schools in the hunt for the league championship this past season with the implementation of said reforms.

I don't think one year makes a trend. There's only one Mount Union. Every other league is up for grabs every year.

[abnrgr]

I thought GC-Q during the year 2000 coming in at 27K was bad..........

W-L 35K!! They better be getting good jobs

[WLU78]

I have blown it big time!!

I am unable to communicate my thesis point, that different admission standards equate to different size football recruiting pools. 

I thought there was nothing in my post about W&L being better or worse than any other school, other than the difficutly of admissions vis a vis other ODAC schools.  I thought I had been clear that it seems coincidental that there is a relative dominance of a league by a school with virtually no football tradition, and I was posing some questions about how the ascendancy had been attained.  There have been several relevant articles about this subject (not directed to the ODAC but in general)  as well as some posts that spoke to this.  I am not passing judgement, I am just observing a phenomenon and commenting.  Nothing more. 

Look fellows, you do with your diploma what you will, I have done with mine what I wanted.  That is a topic that is secondary to my point.   

I have yet to see a post that directly addresses my question posed over a year ago and hashed out again above.

[WLU78]

I thought GC-Q during the year 2000 coming in at 27K was bad..........

W-L 35K!! They better be getting good jobs

and that is paid with after tax dollars!!!!

[Pat Coleman]

I have yet to see a post that directly addresses my question posed over a year ago and hashed out again above.

I don't think there's any way to address it. That's how W&L chooses to roll, and we certainly hear it every year from the Generals coaching staff about how handicapped they are, etc. etc.

Like Keith alluded to above -- W&L has lusted after the Centennial for some time.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

that different admission standards equate to different size football recruiting pools.

I agree.

But are you saying that we continue to beat you in football because our admission standards are lower than yours?

You may find this interesting...

ODAC Scholar Athletes of the Year (for the three biggest sports)

Bridgewater
Jeff Highfill (Football, 2006)
Clay Michael (Men's Basketball, 2006)
Marsha Kinder (Women's Basketball, 2006)
Clay Michael (Men's Basketball, 2005)

Washington & Lee
Liam Murray (Football, 2005)

We must be doing something right.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

W&L has lusted after the Centennial for some time.

The Generals would fit right in...

2006 Playoffs: Washington & Lee (first round loss, 42-0)
2006 Playoffs: Dickinson (first round loss, 49-21)
2005 Playoffs: Johns Hopkins (first round loss, 28-3)
2004 Playoffs: Muhlenberg (first round loss, 31-3)

You enjoy your rigorous admission standards, we'll enjoy our football.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I want to take academics out of it completely.  Forget about it. I am going to assume that Bridgewater is the school in question. I already mentioned before with two other schools the athletic make-up of those schools.  Bridgewater has 422 athletes (this assumes no multi-sport athletes) using d3football enrollment numbers there are 1376 students, that gives a 30.6% athletic student body. 463 athletes and 1746 students at W&L. A total of 26.5%.  The point is generally speaking more of the Financial Aid is going towards the student body of W&L not the athletes.

Speaking of Financial Aid, it is cheaper to go to Bridgewater College (number based on tuition) $6,470 dollars cheaper. 27,000+ for W&L and 21,000+ for BC.  By looking at what is listed on princetonreview.com, Freshman Need Based Aid is at 36% for W&L. It is 70% at Bridgewater College.  What is my point? It looks like the Freshman class comes from  "better off" families compared to Bridgewater College.  Most of us aren't in that catergory, so therefore Bridgewater is the more likely choice among average people no matter what the cost.  An average family that sees those numbers they are not going to send thier kid to W&L.

Finally since 2000 Bridgewater has become the ODAC leader or amongst the ODAC leaders, while on the other hand the past couple of years W&L have been above average in comparison.  W&L has rich history, but when it comes to recruits it is what have you done lately.  Lately Bridgewater has been on top.  Congrats though W&L for finishing on top in 2006 though. It should be a good season in the ODAC.

[CNU85]

I have blown it big time!!

I am unable to communicate my thesis point, that different admission standards equate to different size football recruiting pools. 

I agree with that comment 100%. And I've seen the evidence at CNU over the past few years as President Trible has raised standards dramatically and then I see good football players right in our backyard playing for other schools. The scoop is that they didn't meet the academic standards. (i.e. lower pool)

Our church has an annual dinner for CNU student-athletes with a GPA over 3.0. About 3 years ago I hosted a table of athletes. Every one of those kids stated that if they had to re-apply to CNU, they would not get in based on the new standards Senator Trible has set. (i.e. lower pool)

Anyway - just some thoughts that provide some insight to what WLU is trying to point out.

Also - I know someone who's kid has been at W&L for a couple of years...the figure is closer to $42k per year!!

[Jacketlawyer]

[Our church has an annual dinner for CNU student-athletes with a GPA over 3.0. About 3 years ago I hosted a table of athletes. Every one of those kids stated that if they had to re-apply to CNU, they would not get in based on the new standards Senator Trible has set. (i.e. lower pool)

CNU85, do you know whether CNU plans to stay a DIII school in football, or are they working their way up to DI, much in the same manner JMU did back in the '70s?

[CNU85]

Jacket -

Who knows? I think some fans and community supporters want CNU to move up to higher levels and offer scholarships. I know Trible's stated public comments are that CNU will always be a D3 school.....but then again - he's a politician and LAWYER - so, can you believe what he says?

Sorry  about that - had to sneak in a lawyer jab, ya know!

[CNU85]

and he's an ODAC alum...so what can you believe?

[Pat Coleman]

Also - I know someone who's kid has been at W&L for a couple of years...the figure is closer to $42k per year!!

What I quoted was just tuition and fees. Obviously some students may choose to eat or have roofs over their heads, but those costs are relatively similar across schools.

[CNU85]

gotcha....I forgot about pizza and beer!! That is part of the ciriculum!

[WLU78]

On a different subject, any word on where HSC coach Cris Bell will end up?