FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[willierobin]

Here's a little ftbl article to help chase the boredom till mid august when camps start
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=11000&CHID=3

Interesting read...looks like the Eagles will be ready to regain the ODAC crown. I feel they are the team to beat, but doubt they will dominate. A close look at last year shows losses to Guilford and E&H, a miracle escape vs Ferrum (gave up 500 yards rushing, benefitted from a missed 4th quarter fg on a questionable call and had to stop Ferrum on 3 tries from the 1 in OT), a last-second win at Catholic (trailed in the middle of the 4th and won in the last 30 seconds)and a lackluster win vs R-M in which they trailed at the half against the leagues worst team. Two impressive wins (dominating HSC and W&L again) and 3 wins over bad teams (McDaniel, Shenandoah and LaGrange). All told, certainly the weakest Bridgewater team in years. And losing 34 seniors tells me that the Eagles will again be vulnerable and will need to play their best to win the league. I think they probably will.

[K-Mack]

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

Dang. I went 3-1 and the one still burns ... you know, since they threw goalposts in the lake afterward and all.

In other news about that game, however, we had an attendance thread going elsewhere on the board last year, and I don't believe any (or many) documented games in (recent?) D3 history have had higher attendance than The Game in '94 at Death Valley.

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

Well, let's not forget who won in the 100th anniversary of the start of the rivalry in 1993 ... with the ODAC title on the line, I might add.

I have not seen a number higher than 14,000 even in the more accomplished rivalries and stadiums in D3. In very limited research, however.

[K-Mack]

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

I remember that one (I think).  As I recall we were favored and we lost.  As a result I think I crawled into a Maker's Mark bottle.

I guess you can't really say you couldn't get up for an H-SC game, but I definitely remember us being bummed, as we had ODAC title on our minds after losing at E&H, then having Guilford beat E&H the following week (33-32?) and then beating 7-0 Guilford at our place 28-14 ... only to have Guilford lose inexplicably to W&L in Week 9, 13-6, crushing the 3-way tie possibility and giving E&H its title.

We always played terrible the week after we were or thought we were eliminated from the title picture.

[K-Mack]

I agree with your whole post, except for the Go Tigers portion  .  I thought debt in college was bad.  Real life is horrible, and I'm still acting like a poor college student.

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

I agree with your thoughts. As a person in a position to review resumes and involved in the hiring process, I do look at what school the candidate attended. I do not look for GPA and I do not give extra consideration for the Greek activities in, and of, themselves. I do, however,  give credence to extra-curicular activity - that's where the PBK stuff will show up, but other things are considered equally. I think every person that is in a position to review candidates' resumes is different.

Obviously anyone from CNU or William & Mary makes it to the right pile in round 1!!

This is really for anybody-

School does matter to alot of organizations. Somone I know applied to work an internship at the ACC (Yes Atlantic Coast Conference) they didn't say they wouldn't hire but they didn't say they would hire.  They said that it is a small office and when job opportunities are available they give preference to graduates of ACC Schools and for internship programs student athletes of the ACC.  Some might not see it as fair, but what can you do.

Certainly in isolated cases like that it makes sense. Likewise, it can definitely get you in the door in some situations where you might not have gotten a sniff otherwise.

The real crux of the argument was whether or not school choice alone better prepares you for the real world. Some of us argued that someone working harder at a less prestigious school could be better off than someone coasting at a big school. Some also argued that getting a second chance in college after cruising through part or all of high school turned out to be a serious blessing. Others, however, thought that the more rigorous academic standards and the more rigorous course work more or less made for better students across the board.

Something like that.

[K-Mack]

I wouldn't want to be one of those 104 students playing in the championship and have the pressure of exams on top of the pressure of the game coupled with time (lack of) and travel during exam time. Academics are top priorty at this level and f'ball should not interfer with exams regardless of the number of students involved.

They seem to do just fine. Some even miss winter graduation (larger schools have it) to play in the Stagg Bowl. The last couple of years, UWW players have had degrees conferred on them in Salem by the chancellor or a top department official that comes to the game.

Students take all sorts of tests and do all sorts of projects and homework all season long. Some schools manage to get a bye week during midterms but most don't. If you're cramming at the last minute for finals then you should've planned your time better the rest of the fall. Practice and playing time for a sport forces kids to be better at time management and many times kids have said they actually do better in school during their playing season.

I can definitely back this.

Mount Union has it down to a science. No player interviews after Sunday. Finals from Mon.-Wed., bus leaves for Salem Weds. night. If you have a Thurs or Fri. final, either take it early or take it when you get back. Professors are asked to be as accomodating as possible. In theory, this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience for the players with a set time and date, whereas a final can generally be taken at different times. I think in the small communities like the ones at many D3 schools, this is a shining moment for the entire campus, not just the players, and the professors help find the balance between getting the same amount of work in as all the non-football playing classmates, and respecting the acheivement.

As mentioned, in a lot of cases, the finals are just a review of what you should already know, had you been paying attention all along. Certainly learning is a semester-long process and knowing the possibility of this happening is ahead, players shouldn't be depending on their final for a make-or-break portion of their grade. By the same token, there's a game plan going in for Stagg Bowl week, but the practices don't have to be full of new teaching. If it isn't in by Week 14, it isn't going in, more than likely.

I actually think D3 (and D2 and I-AA on many occasions) should serve as shining examples that if all college students are created equal (and we're assuming I-A players are not a bunch of dolts in this argument), that there's no reason a Division I-A playoff couldn't work around finals if every other college level can do it and pass with flying colors.

It also serves as

Bottom line, however, if this inconveniences the two teams that play in the championship but allows 16 more teams to have the opportunity to experience the playoffs, even if its only for one round, then I think its a worthwhile sacrifice.

[K-Mack]

I still say, 16 teams but change the process of regional rankings to make sure the 4 best teams in each region gets in. Sounds like that did not happen in the years you referenced. I have no idea if that is at all possible at the D3 level.

1998.

4 South Region teams go 10-0, one goes 9-0 (for a total of 5 undefeated teams for 4 available playoff spots)

Emory & Henry misses the playoffs at 10-0.

Should never happen.

Stick with 32.

End of (my) argument.

[K-Mack]

Kiesel tells me he has another good recruiting class with lots of guys coming to him wanting to play. 

I've heard that Guilford can get the talent on the recruiting trail but can't keep it eligible in school. That seems to be a strong generalization however, can someone closer to the program speak to that? Have there been a lot of 1- and 2-year wonders in the program, or are most guys seeing it through the whole four years?

[K-Mack]

Here's a little ftbl article to help chase the boredom till mid august when camps start
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=11000&CHID=3

I agree with the comment on that story:

1 Comments(s) for Article
RE: Experts Ranking BC

I'm not sure Street & Smith's qualify as experts.

June 30, 2007 8:35 PM
Bob Awawa

Still, nice to see the DNR giving the Eagles some love as always.

[K-Mack]

JacketLawyer,

To turn things around, R-MC needs continuity at positions.  I think we finally have that.  This year, we will finally have all the main contributors back to several important positions (something we have never had before).  The O-Line will finally return alot of quality starters, we have more depth at every position than I have ever seen, and I have heard some of my teammates say they will put up with any conditioning or torture a coach can come up with b/c they want to play.

You look at BC, they have depth and returners every year.  Same with all the teams that are getting better.  What once were easy games even for R-MC (W&L, E&H, GC) are now beating us w/ authority. 

We have also regained our pride.  Many players I know would now not take any crap for non-football players about the state of the team.  It used to be people would rag on us and no one would care.  We have too much pride for that now.

Go Jackets

Hey man,
I didn't type that War & Peace-length opus on the state of R-MC football from the outsider's point of view for nothing. Gimme some response too!

I'm definitely not buying the revival as much as Jacket Lawyer just yet. Of course I'd like to see it, but I know those things don't just happen. Everyone else at every other school has pride and is working hard too.

In fact, I was a little disappointed to hear that pride and putting up with coaches were issues. I think most any player worth his salt loves the game so much that there's nothing a coach can do to break him. At least I always felt that way, and I was hardly regarded as a tough guy. And the coaches aren't trying to break you so much as they're trying to prepare you -- mentally and physically -- for that 4th quarter grind. Maybe that play you need to turn a game around, and you won't let yourself believe you're tired even if you are.  I remember a very exhilarating feeling, and it only lasted for a couple weeks out of my life ... but I remember going full bore at end-of-practice conditioning and not being totally winded afterward. It was rather stunning that after all those years I was finally in good enough shape that gassers couldn't gas me ... and then a few weeks later my senior year was over and that was it for that.

I don't know if I ever in my life gave a crap if a non-football player was ragging on the squad. Fan support is nice, but I would've played with 5 fans, 500 fans, 5,000 ... however many, because in the end, you play for the challenge and the competition, not to impress anybody. If R-MC players were really suffering a pride crisis, as opposed to me reading too far into your comments, we're farther behind than I thought. Maybe that's when the culture of losing sets in (did that in HS, so I know what it's like) but I can only get so much out of the opinion of someone who's never been there, whether it's a compliment or an insult. Hopefully most of the players' pride comes within. It'll be a great, great victory when R-MC restores its winning ways, even if it doesn't all happen at once.

I do think you're onto something about continuity and depth. In my earlier post, those were two of my biggest points. Building continuity on staff, at certain positions, within a certain class and in the program (the latter two with regard to keeping players in there for four seasons, alongside the same guys) can be huge as far as setting the tone work-ethic-wise, and with the pride you mentioned, and also as far as keeping the same base offenses and defenses each year mean that upperclassmen can start to advance their games rather than start from square one each August.

Depth is really huge too. At the late 90s at R-MC, we had star players, but we had a ton of guys who really made our teams good. Change-of-pace backs to go from quick to tough, or LBs that could play the run and cover, or people who could shift from safety to CB or slot to flanker/split end, so other people could get in the lineup ... so people could specialize ... so we could withstand injuries at different positions. We had young guys battling for and sometimes taking the seniors' jobs, which is a strong indication of what kind of talent was in the program as a whole. And what we did will be surpassed by the first team that wins a playoff game.

In my work around the conference and the country, that is really one of the biggest things most good teams have in common, the depth behind their star players. When you look at a Mount Union, even in years when their stars aren't great, they still don't have anyone out there making a lot of mistakes or being out of position. Granted, that comes with having great competition for starting roles in the program, and having overall numbers. But also I think it comes with a tone set by the older players on a team, that gets the younger players to take their roles, however small, seriously. When guys buy in early, they're not as unprepared when injury thrusts them into a big game.

And being able to withstand injury, take advantage of specific talents or change personnel, and building competition for jobs in the program so that everyone improves are three huge benefits of team depth.

[allsky7]

I wouldn't want to be one of those 104 students playing in the championship and have the pressure of exams on top of the pressure of the game coupled with time (lack of) and travel during exam time. Academics are top priorty at this level and f'ball should not interfer with exams regardless of the number of students involved.

They seem to do just fine. Some even miss winter graduation (larger schools have it) to play in the Stagg Bowl. The last couple of years, UWW players have had degrees conferred on them in Salem by the chancellor or a top department official that comes to the game.

Students take all sorts of tests and do all sorts of projects and homework all season long. Some schools manage to get a bye week during midterms but most don't. If you're cramming at the last minute for finals then you should've planned your time better the rest of the fall. Practice and playing time for a sport forces kids to be better at time management and many times kids have said they actually do better in school during their playing season.

I can definitely back this.

Mount Union has it down to a science. No player interviews after Sunday. Finals from Mon.-Wed., bus leaves for Salem Weds. night. If you have a Thurs or Fri. final, either take it early or take it when you get back. Professors are asked to be as accomodating as possible. In theory, this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience for the players with a set time and date, whereas a final can generally be taken at different times. I think in the small communities like the ones at many D3 schools, this is a shining moment for the entire campus, not just the players, and the professors help find the balance between getting the same amount of work in as all the non-football playing classmates, and respecting the acheivement.

As mentioned, in a lot of cases, the finals are just a review of what you should already know, had you been paying attention all along. Certainly learning is a semester-long process and knowing the possibility of this happening is ahead, players shouldn't be depending on their final for a make-or-break portion of their grade. By the same token, there's a game plan going in for Stagg Bowl week, but the practices don't have to be full of new teaching. If it isn't in by Week 14, it isn't going in, more than likely.

I actually think D3 (and D2 and I-AA on many occasions) should serve as shining examples that if all college students are created equal (and we're assuming I-A players are not a bunch of dolts in this argument), that there's no reason a Division I-A playoff couldn't work around finals if every other college level can do it and pass with flying colors.

It also serves as

Bottom line, however, if this inconveniences the two teams that play in the championship but allows 16 more teams to have the opportunity to experience the playoffs, even if its only for one round, then I think its a worthwhile sacrifice.

     Except at Mount Union where it seems each graduating class gets at least a couple of these "once in a lifetime" chances. They have had plenty of practice getting the exam thing down.  Maybe MU could do a seminar at coaches conventions on how to do it. They could call it.....Getting The Exam Thing Down Stagg Bowl Week...Not That You Will Ever Need It If You Face Us Before The Finals  

[allsky7]

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

Dang. I went 3-1 and the one still burns ... you know, since they threw goalposts in the lake afterward and all.

In other news about that game, however, we had an attendance thread going elsewhere on the board last year, and I don't believe any (or many) documented games in (recent?) D3 history have had higher attendance than The Game in '94 at Death Valley.

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

Well, let's not forget who won in the 100th anniversary of the start of the rivalry in 1993 ... with the ODAC title on the line, I might add.

I have not seen a number higher than 14,000 even in the more accomplished rivalries and stadiums in D3. In very limited research, however.

     I HAD forgotten that game.    You mean there are more accomplished rivalries than THE GAME?   

[Jacketlawyer]

Hopefully I'll be able to watch my team beat the Tigers this year (unfortunately, I went 0-4).

Dang. I went 3-1 and the one still burns ... you know, since they threw goalposts in the lake afterward and all.

In other news about that game, however, we had an attendance thread going elsewhere on the board last year, and I don't believe any (or many) documented games in (recent?) D3 history have had higher attendance than The Game in '94 at Death Valley.

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

Well, let's not forget who won in the 100th anniversary of the start of the rivalry in 1993 ... with the ODAC title on the line, I might add.

I have not seen a number higher than 14,000 even in the more accomplished rivalries and stadiums in D3. In very limited research, however.

     I HAD forgotten that game.    You mean there are more accomplished rivalries than THE GAME?   

I was wondering if anyone had ever established the oldest college football rivalries.  Lafayette and Lehigh is supposedly the oldest, but they've got to be written down somewhere.

[Jacketlawyer]

[
Well, let's not forget who won in the 100th anniversary of the start of the rivalry in 1993 ... with the ODAC title on the line, I might add.

I have not seen a number higher than 14,000 even in the more accomplished rivalries and stadiums in D3. In very limited research, however.

I was at that game as well.

K-Mack, I always enjoy your treatises on R-M football as well as DIII football in general! 8)

[abnrgr]

I've heard that Guilford can get the talent on the recruiting trail but can't keep it eligible in school. That seems to be a strong generalization however, can someone closer to the program speak to that? Have there been a lot of 1- and 2-year wonders in the program, or are most guys seeing it through the whole four years?

K-Mack
I think I can answer that from a 1999-2004 perspective having had a kid that played at GC-Q. "

BK" (before Kessel) there was a coach assigned to check the players grades. However he was a 22 year old coach. There was 4 coaches past 24 but most were in their early twenties. These young coaches had their hands full coaching against some more experiened staffs.

Then they hired a "coach" to specifically handle this issue. They immediately lost my kids back up to grades. 300 LB nose. Ouch. It sounds like he was a mercy hire anyway. 

So it seemed under Iron Mike Ketchem (whom I love as a coach and human and I respect) that he did not possess the tools because the AD or the administration did not throw the money at him. After Iron Mike left Kessel had to take over a legacy of losing pretty good players to grades. The "grade" so to speak is still out.

Some of the classes at the school had one exam during a semester. one shot at living or dying. That's another forum. 

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

on the discussion of grades/final exams etc.  You have a school as small as Greensboro and where a football team makes up 7-10% of your school population scheduling classes becomes an issue. Greensboro College is a liberal arts school, plus it offers courses on a 4 credit hours (not your traditional 3).  It is hard for any football player to avoid afternoon classes (during practice.)  It can be done, but it is hard and there is no way a player could graduate in 4 years without taking full-load every semester (16-18 hours a semester for 4 years). I will try to take you through a day of what could be a football player at Greensboro College, (This why I have the most respect for the college athlete.) Business Major Junior.  Gets up 7:55 for 8am class.  Class gets out a 9:30.  Better hurry to the cafe, because it closes, no more breakfast soon. Go back to your room do whatever you need to do, probably HW, (knowing if you are the average football player.) Assuming you put off some of your liberal arts classes you take a 12:15 History Class that gets out at 1:15-1:20.  Well you have to hurry again to the cafe becuase they stop lunch service at 1:30.  Go back to you room. Lunch takes about a half an hour, this leaves you with a few minutes to get anything for practice so you can be there by 2:30 and get taped as needed.  Practice starts at 3 ends at 5:30-6 depending on how long it takes you to get out of there you might be out by 6:15 at the earliest, no time to shower because the cafe closes at 7pm (It used to be 6:30 the athletes prompted that change.  Need to make sure you can go get dinner.  At this point you can't schedule any afternoon or night classes (6pm-8:45pm) because of practice no matter what day of the week unless you leave practice early or come to practice late.  (8 of the 12 business classes offered this coming fall are classes that would require you to miss some part of practice.)  You might have already taken some of those courses as it is and what courses you can take are limited. Athletes sometime have to take summer classes and they are often harder because of the shorter schedule.  That is the only way they can graduate on time. (I prefer the full schedule during the year, because some of these classes are only offered once a semester.  As for the summer classes only a few are offered even then.)

Sources:

Parents talking about thier players schedules at games.

http://www.gborocollege.edu/media/schedules/Fall2007undg.pdf