FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[yellow jacket]

Sorry K-Mack,

After having read through about a 500 page notebook on Options, Securities, and Bonds, I tend to glaze over long posts unintentionally.  That's what happens when your brain is dead.  I'll start to read more carefully from now on.



And attesting to schedules.  Yes, you have to work around football.  The coaches don't want you to miss practice, and are reluctant to allow people to schedule classes during practice.  However, if the kids need the classes, at any D-3 school it should be academics first, athletics second (and this is emphasized). 

Also, for the most part, teachers are more than willing to give athletic students breaks for having practice or other activities related to your sport.  I even had a teacher that was willing to let me go early to participate on the local radio program.  So, for the most part, the professors have no problem as long as you do the things that you need to do in class (going to class, participating, not falling asleep).  However, there will always be professors that are D-Bags about athletics and feel that they are not important at all.  But, having 90+ students on a team (and talking to other friends), you know what D-Bags to avoid scheduling.

[Pat Coleman]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

All good points yellow jacket.

Pat-
True, but there are some d3schools that are bigger, some that are smaller.  (Smaller ones probably don't offer football.) I am not too sure if all are liberal arts colleges, but I would think alot are, since that is what I generally think are your typical d3school.  Smaller schools on the other hand can't offer as many courses at as many times.  I have had classes with nothing but football players that are running late to class because of practice and teachers allowing exceptions, but what about the non athletes? If they show up late......

Pat, I also mentioned that "This is why I have the most respect for the college athlete." 

I only mentioned Greensboro College, because I know what it is like at the school. I am sure it is like that at all schools. 

However I do think the worst season for any athlete is the winter season.  You practice before those first exams.  If you don't make it well the roster will be a little smaller after exams. Fall gets you up to the first exams.  Spring after the first exams.

[theaprof]

Actually--if we are fortunate enough to be a participant in the game --the students at Mount Union must complete all of their exams before they depart for the Stagg (this includes the cheerleaders, radio announcers, and SID assistants--there is an official list that gets distributed to the faculty on or about Friday before the national semifinal--only the football players that designated as "dressing" are allowed to take their exams early)--we tried letting them take some after returning and found, for some reason, that their minds were elsewhere after winning a national championship.

[Jacketlawyer]

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

I remember that one (I think).  As I recall we were favored and we lost.  As a result I think I crawled into a Maker's Mark bottle.

I guess you can't really say you couldn't get up for an H-SC game, but I definitely remember us being bummed, as we had ODAC title on our minds after losing at E&H, then having Guilford beat E&H the following week (33-32?) and then beating 7-0 Guilford at our place 28-14 ... only to have Guilford lose inexplicably to W&L in Week 9, 13-6, crushing the 3-way tie possibility and giving E&H its title.

We always played terrible the week after we were or thought we were eliminated from the title picture.

I'm always up for Hampden-Sydney, and barring some unforeseen tragedy or mishap, I'll always be at that game, no matter which campus.  I've only missed one over the past 24 years, and that was due to circumstances way out of my control.

When you live and work in a city that's only an hour away from W&L and H-S respectively, as well as interact with tons of alumni from these two schools, you're always up for your ODAC football.

You have to be. 8)

[hasanova]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

Many of them, however, do get up more than five minutes before their first class. 

[allsky7]

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

I remember that one (I think).  As I recall we were favored and we lost.  As a result I think I crawled into a Maker's Mark bottle.

I guess you can't really say you couldn't get up for an H-SC game, but I definitely remember us being bummed, as we had ODAC title on our minds after losing at E&H, then having Guilford beat E&H the following week (33-32?) and then beating 7-0 Guilford at our place 28-14 ... only to have Guilford lose inexplicably to W&L in Week 9, 13-6, crushing the 3-way tie possibility and giving E&H its title.

We always played terrible the week after we were or thought we were eliminated from the title picture.

I'm always up for Hampden-Sydney, and barring some unforeseen tragedy or mishap, I'll always be at that game, no matter which campus.  I've only missed one over the past 24 years, and that was due to circumstances way out of my control.

When you live and work in a city that's only an hour away from W&L and H-S respectively, as well as interact with tons of alumni from these two schools, you're always up for your ODAC football.

You have to be. 8)

     Jacket...I am always up for Randolph-Macon as well. From the late 1960's through 1985, I was probably at every Tiger/Jacket clash. Of course, from 1983-85 I competed against the Jackets as a Fighting Scot. Let's not talk about won/loss records those years.  It WILL make you happy to know that we did defeat the Tigers in 1984. Other than whipping a very good Centre team, probably the biggest W we had in my years at MC.
     My attendance record is not as impressive as yours since 1985. You see, one of the few things I have as much passion for as D3 football, is whitetail hunting. The second Saturday in November is prime time in VA for hunting whitetails as well as Yellow Jackets. And while harvesting a 10 point buck AND swatting Yellow Jackets are both very gratifying, grilled tenderloin wins the taste test.    The compromise is that in most even years, I am at Death Valley, in odd years I am in the woods.
     Interesting story about one of the even years I didn't make it to Death Valley. (probably 92 or 94 because I know it was a Tiger W) I promise....I did not make this up. 
     I was sitting in a tree stand on a piece of property I owned in Prince Edward County wondering if I had made the right decision to miss THE GAME. Everyone probably thinks at this point, I am going to tell you about the huge buck that walked by me. NOPE....as I was sitting there, all of the sudden I could hear this strange loudspeaker type noise. At first I didn't realize what it was. After a few minutes, I realized it was THE GAME. Amazingly, I was actually hearing the PA announcer from THE GAME!! I couldn't believe it. As the crow flies, I was probably somewhere around 3-4 miles from Death Valley. I couldn't actually tell what he was saying but I could hear the crowd cheering. I deduced that it was probably the Tiger fans I was hearing because my land is east and Hundley Stadium faces pretty much east. Guess it was one of those weird days where the atmosphere was just right because I never had that happen again. If only I had had a Walker's Game Ear, I  could have probably heard the play by play.    Wouldn't that have been awesome? Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Or should I say tenderloin? 

[allsky7]

     Guestimated at 14,000...I will long remember that day. As far as I know, the goalpost are still in Chalgrove Lake. An eternal reminder of a Tiger victory in #100. 

I remember that one (I think).  As I recall we were favored and we lost.  As a result I think I crawled into a Maker's Mark bottle.

I guess you can't really say you couldn't get up for an H-SC game, but I definitely remember us being bummed, as we had ODAC title on our minds after losing at E&H, then having Guilford beat E&H the following week (33-32?) and then beating 7-0 Guilford at our place 28-14 ... only to have Guilford lose inexplicably to W&L in Week 9, 13-6, crushing the 3-way tie possibility and giving E&H its title.

We always played terrible the week after we were or thought we were eliminated from the title picture.

I'm always up for Hampden-Sydney, and barring some unforeseen tragedy or mishap, I'll always be at that game, no matter which campus.  I've only missed one over the past 24 years, and that was due to circumstances way out of my control.

When you live and work in a city that's only an hour away from W&L and H-S respectively, as well as interact with tons of alumni from these two schools, you're always up for your ODAC football.

You have to be. 8)

     Jacket...I am always up for Randolph-Macon as well. From the late 1960's through 1985, I was probably at every Tiger/Jacket clash. Of course, from 1983-85 I competed against the Jackets as a Fighting Scot. Let's not talk about won/loss records those years.  It WILL make you happy to know that we did defeat the Tigers in 1984. Other than whipping a very good Centre team, probably the biggest W we had in my years at MC.
     My attendance record is not as impressive as yours since 1985. You see, one of the few things I have as much passion for as D3 football, is whitetail hunting. The second Saturday in November is prime time in VA for hunting whitetails as well as Yellow Jackets. And while harvesting a 10 point buck AND swatting Yellow Jackets are both very gratifying, grilled tenderloin wins the taste test.    The compromise is that in most even years, I am at Death Valley, in odd years I am in the woods.
     Interesting story about one of the even years I didn't make it to Death Valley. (probably 92 or 94 because I know it was a Tiger W) I promise....I did not make this up. 
     I was sitting in a tree stand on a piece of property I owned in Prince Edward County wondering if I had made the right decision to miss THE GAME. Everyone probably thinks at this point, I am going to tell you about the huge buck that walked by me. NOPE....as I was sitting there, all of the sudden I could hear this strange loudspeaker type noise. At first I didn't realize what it was. After a few minutes, I realized it was THE GAME. Amazingly, I was actually hearing the PA announcer from THE GAME!! I couldn't believe it. As the crow flies, I was probably somewhere around 3-4 miles from Death Valley. I couldn't actually tell what he was saying but I could hear the crowd cheering. I deduced that it was probably the Tiger fans I was hearing because my land is east and Hundley Stadium faces pretty much east. Guess it was one of those weird days where the atmosphere was just right because I never had that happen again. If only I had had a Walker's Game Ear, I  could have probably heard the play by play.    Wouldn't that have been awesome? Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Or should I say tenderloin? 

     Oopsie....I wasn't at THE GAME from 83-85 because I was playing for the Fighting Scots against another opponent. But you get the idea. 

[K-Mack]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

I agree.

At Macon in the 90s, we definitely had several people leave practice each day to go to labs or dinner before night classes, because many courses were only offered once a year and if you can't take it senior year fall, for instance, you might not graduate. Also, you couldn't avoid "easy" professors or get the electives you wanted sometimes (still kind of mad about the Hitchcock film course being offered from 3:10-5:40 in the fall).

But it really wasn't that bad. 8:30 a.m. to 3 p.m. is a pretty wide window for scheduling courses, especially if night classes were a factor. Also, R-MC was a J-term school (4-1-4) so course loads may have appeared a little lighter. You could do 3-1-5 I think, but you had to be taking at least 12 credit hours to stay eligible. I dunno, I never really had that problem, but there was room for finagling as long as you got all your studying done in the end.

I won't go into great detail, as I'm sure I posted this somewhere here before ... my best friends from high school played for Rowan and Delaware State. The difference in the D1 attitude was very different. The window for scheduling classes, I was told, was 8-noon. Afterward, coach owned you (almost literally, if you valued your scholarship) for film time, weightlifting, practice, dinner with team, study hall with team. (not necessarily in that order)

D3 teams do all those same things, but training table is usually just a recommended diet and sitting at a table voluntarily with friends. Film and weightlifting are required but don't take precedence over class scheduling.

And basically, you know when practice is, same time every day all fall. If you schedule a class during practice, you probably don't value your football career very much.

[K-Mack]

abnrgr,
interesting feedback.

yellow jacket,
it's cool about glazing over long posts, that always happens. Just thought since those were for you and Jlawyer, you might have had a reaction.

allsky,
Hunting stories usually don't do it for me, but I liked that one.

theaprof,
I stand corrected.

And you raise a good point. You're only talking about 55 players off 2 teams who are going to miss finals or try to squeeze them in early.

230-some-odd teams and much of the championship teams' young players/scout team are all taking their finals on time. And then busting outta there to get to Salem ... Corned Beef, Stone Station and the rest baby bay-bay!

Re: R-MC/H-SC

I am definitely not always up for The Game. I respect the rivalry. I love the atmosphere, it's basically a better version of homecoming each year.

That said, there's something important to me about the competitive aspect in a rivalry, and The Game has lacked that for 12 years now.

The three rivalries I regard ahead of ours are Williams-Amherst, DePauw-Wabash and Cortland State-Ithaca. They each end the season with each other, which is key, and they are often both good in the same year. They have the history (although Cortaca isn't even 100) and they each have something unique, be it the Monon Bell, Cortaca Jug or the private/public rivalry.

Williams kind of dominated Amherst for a while, but given how that was the grand finale, no playoffs, that rivalry seems to maintain its tradition.

And Jacket Lawyer, the NCAA has compiled the list of longest rivalries.

I hate to give away my research secrets, so you think I work really really hard crunching these numbers, but it's in their D2/D3 record book.

I-A and II have no rivalries longer than III's longest. I-AA has a bunch of 100+ games like we do, Lafayette-Lehigh is the kind, Harvard-Yale is up there, even Richmond v. William & Mary.

Some of D3s longest apparently aren't great rivalries, like Oxy vs. Pomona-Pitzer, for example.

There are some great D3 ones not mentioned in this post however, like Monmouth-Knox, Coe-Cornell and such. I started a rivalries thread linking to stories we've written about D3 rivalries.

The record book link: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/football/football_records_book_d2_d3/2006_d2_d3_football_records.pdf

Lotta great info in there. Start with Page 92 and browse around some. The secret to being an ATN expert is out!

Glaze away my friends, K-Mack does not often do short posts.

[allsky7]

abnrgr,
interesting feedback.

yellow jacket,
it's cool about glazing over long posts, that always happens. Just thought since those were for you and Jlawyer, you might have had a reaction.

allsky,
Hunting stories usually don't do it for me, but I liked that one.

theaprof,
I stand corrected.

And you raise a good point. You're only talking about 55 players off 2 teams who are going to miss finals or try to squeeze them in early.

230-some-odd teams and much of the championship teams' young players/scout team are all taking their finals on time. And then busting outta there to get to Salem ... Corned Beef, Stone Station and the rest baby bay-bay!

Re: R-MC/H-SC

I am definitely not always up for The Game. I respect the rivalry. I love the atmosphere, it's basically a better version of homecoming each year.

That said, there's something important to me about the competitive aspect in a rivalry, and The Game has lacked that for 12 years now.
The three rivalries I regard ahead of ours are Williams-Amherst, DePauw-Wabash and Cortland State-Ithaca. They each end the season with each other, which is key, and they are often both good in the same year. They have the history (although Cortaca isn't even 100) and they each have something unique, be it the Monon Bell, Cortaca Jug or the private/public rivalry.

Williams kind of dominated Amherst for a while, but given how that was the grand finale, no playoffs, that rivalry seems to maintain its tradition.

And Jacket Lawyer, the NCAA has compiled the list of longest rivalries.

I hate to give away my research secrets, so you think I work really really hard crunching these numbers, but it's in their D2/D3 record book.

I-A and II have no rivalries longer than III's longest. I-AA has a bunch of 100+ games like we do, Lafayette-Lehigh is the kind, Harvard-Yale is up there, even Richmond v. William & Mary.

Some of D3s longest apparently aren't great rivalries, like Oxy vs. Pomona-Pitzer, for example.

There are some great D3 ones not mentioned in this post however, like Monmouth-Knox, Coe-Cornell and such. I started a rivalries thread linking to stories we've written about D3 rivalries.

The record book link: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/football/football_records_book_d2_d3/2006_d2_d3_football_records.pdf

Lotta great info in there. Start with Page 92 and browse around some. The secret to being an ATN expert is out!

Glaze away my friends, K-Mack does not often do short posts.

     I have dozens of interesting hunting stories but I think that is the only one with a football connection. 

     My dad and I had a discussion this AM about the H-S / R-M rivalry. (among other controversial D3 topics  ) There is no doubt in my mind that the last 12 years have hurt the rivalry. Yellow Jacket, being so recently involved may disagree, but I think looking at the big picture, it has to have had a negative impact. I did a little non scientific study of THE GAME from 1950-1989. No particular reason for choosing the years I did other than my dad played for the Tigers in the 50's and I played against them in the 80's. It also covers a pretty long period of time. (40 years) This is what I found:

-  19 R-M wins / 17 H-S wins / 4 ties
-  Avg margin of victory - 9.5 points
-  Avg margin of victory if you throw out the top 4 lopsided scores (62, 68, 72, & 77)  7.3 points
- Largest win streak - 4  H-S from 61-64,  R-M had three, 3 game win streaks but the MOV were relatively small.
- W/L Record home vs away  H-S  8 and 11 at Death Valley, 9 and 8 at Day Field
                                              R-M 11 and 8 at Death Valley, 8 and 9 at Day Field
- 3 of 4 ties at Day Field

     Based on these numbers, you can certainly understand the rivalry maintaining it's fire. Hopefully, this rivalry will get back on track. I just can't bring myself to say it would be good for the Jackets to win. SOOOO.....how about smaller Tiger margins of victory. OUCH.....even THAT was painful to say. 

     
                                             
     

[Jacketlawyer]

         I was sitting in a tree stand on a piece of property I owned in Prince Edward County wondering if I had made the right decision to miss THE GAME. Everyone probably thinks at this point, I am going to tell you about the huge buck that walked by me. NOPE....as I was sitting there, all of the sudden I could hear this strange loudspeaker type noise. At first I didn't realize what it was. After a few minutes, I realized it was THE GAME. Amazingly, I was actually hearing the PA announcer from THE GAME!! I couldn't believe it. As the crow flies, I was probably somewhere around 3-4 miles from Death Valley. I couldn't actually tell what he was saying but I could hear the crowd cheering. I deduced that it was probably the Tiger fans I was hearing because my land is east and Hundley Stadium faces pretty much east. Guess it was one of those weird days where the atmosphere was just right because I never had that happen again. If only I had had a Walker's Game Ear, I  could have probably heard the play by play.    Wouldn't that have been awesome? Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Or should I say tenderloin? 

This is classic.  What a great story.  If a book is ever written on this rivalry (and there should be one), this goes in. 8)

Thanks for the link, K-Mack.  It answered pretty much the endless cocktail party question for me.  Muy bien!

[yellow jacket]

No offense to not reading your post K-Mack.  I usually do read every post in its entirety.  Studying for 12 hours a day on a subject that I have never seen before that I need to complete in 3 weeks has left me drained.   

[pakownr97]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

Many of them, however, do get up more than five minutes before their first class. 

C'mon 'Nova, I never met any of those students, LOL!

[hasanova]

Pride -- other than the early close to the dining facilities, I don't think what you describe is any different than what most Division III athletes face. It's like that all over.

Many of them, however, do get up more than five minutes before their first class. 

C'mon 'Nova, I never met any of those students, LOL!

Well, maybe you're right.  I guess that's an advantage of a small school.  You can double-time it and never be more than five minutes between buildings.  lol  It worked at Guilford (if you slept in your shorts and a t-shirt - and who didn't?!), but I can definitely tell you it didn't work so well at the sprawling University of South Carolina.