FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[K-Mack]

No offense to not reading your post K-Mack. 

Just kidding with you. You're free to read and skip at your leisure.

[K-Mack]

abnrgr,
interesting feedback.

yellow jacket,
it's cool about glazing over long posts, that always happens. Just thought since those were for you and Jlawyer, you might have had a reaction.

allsky,
Hunting stories usually don't do it for me, but I liked that one.

theaprof,
I stand corrected.

And you raise a good point. You're only talking about 55 players off 2 teams who are going to miss finals or try to squeeze them in early.

230-some-odd teams and much of the championship teams' young players/scout team are all taking their finals on time. And then busting outta there to get to Salem ... Corned Beef, Stone Station and the rest baby bay-bay!

Re: R-MC/H-SC

I am definitely not always up for The Game. I respect the rivalry. I love the atmosphere, it's basically a better version of homecoming each year.

That said, there's something important to me about the competitive aspect in a rivalry, and The Game has lacked that for 12 years now.
The three rivalries I regard ahead of ours are Williams-Amherst, DePauw-Wabash and Cortland State-Ithaca. They each end the season with each other, which is key, and they are often both good in the same year. They have the history (although Cortaca isn't even 100) and they each have something unique, be it the Monon Bell, Cortaca Jug or the private/public rivalry.

Williams kind of dominated Amherst for a while, but given how that was the grand finale, no playoffs, that rivalry seems to maintain its tradition.

And Jacket Lawyer, the NCAA has compiled the list of longest rivalries.

I hate to give away my research secrets, so you think I work really really hard crunching these numbers, but it's in their D2/D3 record book.

I-A and II have no rivalries longer than III's longest. I-AA has a bunch of 100+ games like we do, Lafayette-Lehigh is the kind, Harvard-Yale is up there, even Richmond v. William & Mary.

Some of D3s longest apparently aren't great rivalries, like Oxy vs. Pomona-Pitzer, for example.

There are some great D3 ones not mentioned in this post however, like Monmouth-Knox, Coe-Cornell and such. I started a rivalries thread linking to stories we've written about D3 rivalries.

The record book link: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/football/football_records_book_d2_d3/2006_d2_d3_football_records.pdf

Lotta great info in there. Start with Page 92 and browse around some. The secret to being an ATN expert is out!

Glaze away my friends, K-Mack does not often do short posts.

     I have dozens of interesting hunting stories but I think that is the only one with a football connection. 

     My dad and I had a discussion this AM about the H-S / R-M rivalry. (among other controversial D3 topics  ) There is no doubt in my mind that the last 12 years have hurt the rivalry. Yellow Jacket, being so recently involved may disagree, but I think looking at the big picture, it has to have had a negative impact. I did a little non scientific study of THE GAME from 1950-1989. No particular reason for choosing the years I did other than my dad played for the Tigers in the 50's and I played against them in the 80's. It also covers a pretty long period of time. (40 years) This is what I found:

-  19 R-M wins / 17 H-S wins / 4 ties
-  Avg margin of victory - 9.5 points
-  Avg margin of victory if you throw out the top 4 lopsided scores (62, 68, 72, & 77)  7.3 points
- Largest win streak - 4  H-S from 61-64,  R-M had three, 3 game win streaks but the MOV were relatively small.
- W/L Record home vs away  H-S  8 and 11 at Death Valley, 9 and 8 at Day Field
                                              R-M 11 and 8 at Death Valley, 8 and 9 at Day Field
- 3 of 4 ties at Day Field

     Based on these numbers, you can certainly understand the rivalry maintaining it's fire. Hopefully, this rivalry will get back on track. I just can't bring myself to say it would be good for the Jackets to win. SOOOO.....how about smaller Tiger margins of victory. OUCH.....even THAT was painful to say. 

That was funny.

There needs to be some suspense. If you go to the game each year knowing who is going to win, what fun is that? There were some close ones over the 12 years we're talking about (45-42, 26-17, 7-0, 20-10), but I feel like I just missed the Golden years of the rivalry.

The way you hear about the games in the period you quoted above ... THAT'S the rivalry we're all so proud of and need to have back. As it is, it's still pretty comparable to some of the better ones in the country, but it's not the best it can be. And that's all I want, is an R-MC/H-SC game with the ODAC title and possibly a playoff bid on the line, in the rain ... 4th-and-goal, 24-17 with :14 left.

Every year.

Not too much to ask, is it?

[K-Mack]

We played a game like that with Emory & Henry practically every year, had a few memorable games with Catholic and Guilford too. Even some good games with Davidson.

H-SC was still the main rival, but we had other teams who the team got up for more during game week. I guess they were better competitive rivals, and H-SC was the historical rival and the big show for the alumni. And the school is all tuned in to that one too, blood drive, running of the football, etc.

And nothing beats the standing-room only, three-deep around the roped-off field atmosphere at H-SC/R-MC. Either field. That always kicks, uh, butt.

Also, you know, late 90s ... there was a mad rash of "let's tear down their goal post / let's defend our goalpost" that resulted in some rough incidents. 

[yellow jacket]

I think the H-SC rivalry has gotten a little less intense, but honestly, in some ways, its better (I'll explain one why it is).  I don't know if any of you were there, but the HSC-RMC game in 2003 (freshman year for me), HSC ran into the locker room through our warm-ups.  Our coaches that year had told us not to take any crap from them, so as they came back on the field, through our warm-ups again, all hell broke loose. 

I mean, everyone started fighting.  Coaches, refs, players.  To me at that point it was defending our honor, and, as a player that didn't play, quite fun.  Looking at it now, and at other similar incidents (Miami, FIU; Clemson, SC), it was a stupid move by both teams.  Although the rivalry is still strong, and I still won't hire an HSC grad or hang out with one  , I'm glad both coaches have tried to turn down the physical intensity off of the field between us. 

[willierobin]

I think the H-SC rivalry has gotten a little less intense, but honestly, in some ways, its better (I'll explain one why it is).  I don't know if any of you were there, but the HSC-RMC game in 2003 (freshman year for me), HSC ran into the locker room through our warm-ups.  Our coaches that year had told us not to take any crap from them, so as they came back on the field, through our warm-ups again, all hell broke loose. 

I mean, everyone started fighting.  Coaches, refs, players.  To me at that point it was defending our honor, and, as a player that didn't play, quite fun.  Looking at it now, and at other similar incidents (Miami, FIU; Clemson, SC), it was a stupid move by both teams.  Although the rivalry is still strong, and I still won't hire an HSC grad or hang out with one  , I'm glad both coaches have tried to turn down the physical intensity off of the field between us. 

That was stupid. R-M got a starting senior lb ejected, got whipped 53-21 and Boone was fired in the off-season.

[Ralph Turner]

Here is the press release announcing the formal investigation by Lynchburg College (ODAC) to add football.

Lynchburg College from the News & Advance, Lynchburg, VA.

...Some of the startup costs would include facilities, equipment and travel expenses.

The task force's goal is to prepare a non-binding recommendation for the Board of Trustees' meeting on May 18 [,2007].



"It's still early," Arnold said. "It's just a feasibility study. We are just looking at the possibility of adding football. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds."...

News & Advance archives from May 2007.

From my review of the Lynchburg News and Advance, I have not found the results of the Lynchburg Board of Trustees' decision concerning football.

Has anyone heard of a decision?

[abnrgr]

BRIDGEWATER, Va. —  Deadly methane gas emanating from a dairy farm's manure pit killed five people, including four members of a Mennonite family, authorities said.
Drudge report


Damn I posted this on the wrong net.

Anyway... was this near campus?

[K-Mack]

I read about that.

Sounds like it was up in the mountains a bit, but I guess if it was in Bridgewater, Va., it was near campus.

Definitely tragic the way it happened, and if you know how methane is an odorless, colorless killer.

The dad/main farmer went into the pit to unclog a pipe, apparently something not all that uncommon. He fell out so quickly his assistant thought he had a heart attack, so he went in to get him. The mom and two young daughters saw people going in and went to help, and all five of them inhaled the gas and never came out.

At least that's how I read it.

Real terrible story. Two surviving daughters, apparently.

[K-Mack]

I think the H-SC rivalry has gotten a little less intense, but honestly, in some ways, its better (I'll explain one why it is).  I don't know if any of you were there, but the HSC-RMC game in 2003 (freshman year for me), HSC ran into the locker room through our warm-ups.  Our coaches that year had told us not to take any crap from them, so as they came back on the field, through our warm-ups again, all hell broke loose. 

I mean, everyone started fighting.  Coaches, refs, players.  To me at that point it was defending our honor, and, as a player that didn't play, quite fun.  Looking at it now, and at other similar incidents (Miami, FIU; Clemson, SC), it was a stupid move by both teams.  Although the rivalry is still strong, and I still won't hire an HSC grad or hang out with one  , I'm glad both coaches have tried to turn down the physical intensity off of the field between us. 

That was stupid. R-M got a starting senior lb ejected, got whipped 53-21 and Boone was fired in the off-season.

I was at that game. I have a vague memory of that now that you mention it, but I think I was a little slow getting over from the tailgate for kickoff so I didn't see the whole thing.

But I can tell you that it's nothing new. In '95, we met up in the same end zone, before there was a Brock Center at that end. No blows were thrown, but it was crazy heated. I knew I wasn't starting that day, so I went right to the front of the pack. The main guy I was jawing with was a guy who had stayed with my roommate and I the year before on a prospective visit, Vipperman was the name. He had picked H-SC over us.

That may be a better indication of the closeness of the rivalry than the fact we were jawing at each other.

There's a million R-MC/H-SC fight stories, you should find out about how the teams used to tear the goalposts down if they won on the road, til they started surrounding the goalposts with state police. The basketball game has its stories too, slashed tires on the H-SC team van one year after they won in Crenshaw. They poured grass killer in the shape of an HSC on our field in '95, I think ... idiots though, they ran out before they could finish the C.

Do the history, or maybe we really do need to get on that book, Jacket Lawyer. The old stories are great. There used to be an RMC contingent that would go down and try to paint the old War Eagle or whatever it was called. Or steal it.

The best R-MC story I heard from one of the old timers was one year some HSC kids came up to vandalize the campus, went through with it and were pretty thrilled with themselves until they returned to their car and found the engine dismantled.

Course, they probably tell that same story at H-SC, only flipped.

Back in the all-men days at R-MC too, all freshmen had to wear beanies first semester, but if they beat H-SC, they could take them off.

All that fight stuff does indicate that something heated is there, but that's really nothing to be proud of. Competitiveness is healthy, violence not so much. I know both administrations and parts of the student body have gone to great lengths over the years to bring positive benefits out of the rivalry, like the blood drive (whoever donates more ... gets something, a point in the week-long competition, I forget)

Of course, some of us still prefer the grass-killing and engine dismantling. And 49-18 wins.

[K-Mack]

Also, I'm pretty sure Boone technically resigned and his on-field performance was not a factor.

[Jacketlawyer]

Do the history, or maybe we really do need to get on that book, Jacket Lawyer. The old stories are great. There used to be an RMC contingent that would go down and try to paint the old War Eagle or whatever it was called. Or steal it.

I started the preliminary research on a book around the centennials of the rivalry.  Then law school happened, and a divorce happened during that.  So I've lost some momentum on that project, though never my love for the rivalry.  I hope to get back up on it soon.

It needs to be done.

Some of the stuff that was done over the rivalry back when R-M was all male was seriously out of control.  You have got to see some of the pictures from yearbooks from each school.

I was up in the archives of R-M's library researching through some old yearbooks, and even the pre-ministry students got into it.  There was on Old Testament-style poem that spoke of the Jackets going into the "valley of the Ham-Sids." 8)

[allsky7]

abnrgr,
interesting feedback.

yellow jacket,
it's cool about glazing over long posts, that always happens. Just thought since those were for you and Jlawyer, you might have had a reaction.

allsky,
Hunting stories usually don't do it for me, but I liked that one.

theaprof,
I stand corrected.

And you raise a good point. You're only talking about 55 players off 2 teams who are going to miss finals or try to squeeze them in early.

230-some-odd teams and much of the championship teams' young players/scout team are all taking their finals on time. And then busting outta there to get to Salem ... Corned Beef, Stone Station and the rest baby bay-bay!

Re: R-MC/H-SC

I am definitely not always up for The Game. I respect the rivalry. I love the atmosphere, it's basically a better version of homecoming each year.

That said, there's something important to me about the competitive aspect in a rivalry, and The Game has lacked that for 12 years now.
The three rivalries I regard ahead of ours are Williams-Amherst, DePauw-Wabash and Cortland State-Ithaca. They each end the season with each other, which is key, and they are often both good in the same year. They have the history (although Cortaca isn't even 100) and they each have something unique, be it the Monon Bell, Cortaca Jug or the private/public rivalry.

Williams kind of dominated Amherst for a while, but given how that was the grand finale, no playoffs, that rivalry seems to maintain its tradition.

And Jacket Lawyer, the NCAA has compiled the list of longest rivalries.

I hate to give away my research secrets, so you think I work really really hard crunching these numbers, but it's in their D2/D3 record book.

I-A and II have no rivalries longer than III's longest. I-AA has a bunch of 100+ games like we do, Lafayette-Lehigh is the kind, Harvard-Yale is up there, even Richmond v. William & Mary.

Some of D3s longest apparently aren't great rivalries, like Oxy vs. Pomona-Pitzer, for example.

There are some great D3 ones not mentioned in this post however, like Monmouth-Knox, Coe-Cornell and such. I started a rivalries thread linking to stories we've written about D3 rivalries.

The record book link: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/football/football_records_book_d2_d3/2006_d2_d3_football_records.pdf

Lotta great info in there. Start with Page 92 and browse around some. The secret to being an ATN expert is out!

Glaze away my friends, K-Mack does not often do short posts.

     I have dozens of interesting hunting stories but I think that is the only one with a football connection. 

     My dad and I had a discussion this AM about the H-S / R-M rivalry. (among other controversial D3 topics  ) There is no doubt in my mind that the last 12 years have hurt the rivalry. Yellow Jacket, being so recently involved may disagree, but I think looking at the big picture, it has to have had a negative impact. I did a little non scientific study of THE GAME from 1950-1989. No particular reason for choosing the years I did other than my dad played for the Tigers in the 50's and I played against them in the 80's. It also covers a pretty long period of time. (40 years) This is what I found:

-  19 R-M wins / 17 H-S wins / 4 ties
-  Avg margin of victory - 9.5 points
-  Avg margin of victory if you throw out the top 4 lopsided scores (62, 68, 72, & 77)  7.3 points
- Largest win streak - 4  H-S from 61-64,  R-M had three, 3 game win streaks but the MOV were relatively small.
- W/L Record home vs away  H-S  8 and 11 at Death Valley, 9 and 8 at Day Field
                                              R-M 11 and 8 at Death Valley, 8 and 9 at Day Field
- 3 of 4 ties at Day Field

     Based on these numbers, you can certainly understand the rivalry maintaining it's fire. Hopefully, this rivalry will get back on track. I just can't bring myself to say it would be good for the Jackets to win. SOOOO.....how about smaller Tiger margins of victory. OUCH.....even THAT was painful to say. 

That was funny.

There needs to be some suspense. If you go to the game each year knowing who is going to win, what fun is that? There were some close ones over the 12 years we're talking about (45-42, 26-17, 7-0, 20-10), but I feel like I just missed the Golden years of the rivalry.

The way you hear about the games in the period you quoted above ... THAT'S the rivalry we're all so proud of and need to have back. As it is, it's still pretty comparable to some of the better ones in the country, but it's not the best it can be. And that's all I want, is an R-MC/H-SC game with the ODAC title and possibly a playoff bid on the line, in the rain ... 4th-and-goal, 24-17 with :14 left.

Every year.

Not too much to ask, is it?

     Certainly seems like a reasonable request to me. 

[allsky7]

I think the H-SC rivalry has gotten a little less intense, but honestly, in some ways, its better (I'll explain one why it is).  I don't know if any of you were there, but the HSC-RMC game in 2003 (freshman year for me), HSC ran into the locker room through our warm-ups.  Our coaches that year had told us not to take any crap from them, so as they came back on the field, through our warm-ups again, all hell broke loose. 

I mean, everyone started fighting.  Coaches, refs, players.  To me at that point it was defending our honor, and, as a player that didn't play, quite fun.  Looking at it now, and at other similar incidents (Miami, FIU; Clemson, SC), it was a stupid move by both teams.  Although the rivalry is still strong, and I still won't hire an HSC grad or hang out with one  , I'm glad both coaches have tried to turn down the physical intensity off of the field between us. 

That was stupid. R-M got a starting senior lb ejected, got whipped 53-21 and Boone was fired in the off-season.

I was at that game. I have a vague memory of that now that you mention it, but I think I was a little slow getting over from the tailgate for kickoff so I didn't see the whole thing.

But I can tell you that it's nothing new. In '95, we met up in the same end zone, before there was a Brock Center at that end. No blows were thrown, but it was crazy heated. I knew I wasn't starting that day, so I went right to the front of the pack. The main guy I was jawing with was a guy who had stayed with my roommate and I the year before on a prospective visit, Vipperman was the name. He had picked H-SC over us.

That may be a better indication of the closeness of the rivalry than the fact we were jawing at each other.

There's a million R-MC/H-SC fight stories, you should find out about how the teams used to tear the goalposts down if they won on the road, til they started surrounding the goalposts with state police. The basketball game has its stories too, slashed tires on the H-SC team van one year after they won in Crenshaw. They poured grass killer in the shape of an HSC on our field in '95, I think ... idiots though, they ran out before they could finish the C.

Do the history, or maybe we really do need to get on that book, Jacket Lawyer. The old stories are great. There used to be an RMC contingent that would go down and try to paint the old War Eagle or whatever it was called. Or steal it.

The best R-MC story I heard from one of the old timers was one year some HSC kids came up to vandalize the campus, went through with it and were pretty thrilled with themselves until they returned to their car and found the engine dismantled.

Course, they probably tell that same story at H-SC, only flipped.

Back in the all-men days at R-MC too, all freshmen had to wear beanies first semester, but if they beat H-SC, they could take them off.

All that fight stuff does indicate that something heated is there, but that's really nothing to be proud of. Competitiveness is healthy, violence not so much. I know both administrations and parts of the student body have gone to great lengths over the years to bring positive benefits out of the rivalry, like the blood drive (whoever donates more ... gets something, a point in the week-long competition, I forget)

Of course, some of us still prefer the grass-killing and engine dismantling. And 49-18 wins.

     K-Mack...as I understand it,that eagle was donated by an H-S alum and came from a rail station  in Philly. That's your stomping grounds isn't it? Not sure who's bright idea it was to put it right next to the football field.  I would be more than happy to offer a more appropriate place.  I remember it being painted many times over the years. I think they finally coated it with something so they didn't have to sand blast the thing every year.  It was rapidly heading toward nothingness. 
     They tried doing the blood drive/intramural football/Tigers vs Jackets thing to try to get the focus away from all the other stuff. Again, as I understand it, they quit doing the intramural football game because all it did was give everybody an extra 3 or 4 hours to get loaded. (as if they needed assistance)
     There have been so many stories over the years. I just don't remember all this stuff being done years ago with malice. They were just pranks. The world has changed. We live in such a litigious world that everyones "pucker factor" is so much higher than it used to be. As far as I know, nobody was ever seriously hurt as a result of these pranks.  Obviously, now that we are older, wiser, and more mature adults,  8) we can't condone this type of negative behavior. On the other hand, I doubt very seriously, that a 20 year old college student gives a flip about what I think. 

[pakownr97]

Hey Kid,

What's the latest on BC's fourth-string QB?

[Jacketlawyer]

Allsky, K-Mack, I believe the last time those eagles were painted was 1983.