FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

Hasa,

I agree the parity does not bode well for a successful run in the playoffs because the ODAC champion will probably not have an undefeated record.  The champion could be sent to play a high seed or the number one seed like last year.  It would really be something to remember if we did have a year where everyone ended up 3-3.

The teams that usually advance far in the playoffs are often virtually untouchable in their own conferences (think Mt. Union).   In a large conference such as the ASC, there may even be two dominant teams where Number 1 squeaks by Number 2 and they both get a bid.   In the ODAC, with last year's 4-way tie and four teams also getting preseason first place votes this season, it means no one is expected to be dominant.  Winning the ODAC will be great, of course, but unless a team really puts some distance between itself and the other six (and dominates out of conference), there will probably be no ODAC team in the Tops 25 and an early playoff exit on the road to a very highly ranked team.

Seven teams at 3-3 would, indeed, be something.  What would the tie-breaker rules look like? 

We call it the "Texas sub-bracket".

UMHB plays Trinity or HSU or any combination in the first round of the NCAA.

See Post #29 for a run-down of the winners of the "Barbed Wire and Mesquite". 

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.29

Thanks, Ralph.  Good stuff!

[tigerfanalso]

Does ODAC football have an opportunity to compete on a national level like ODAC basketball does ?

Obstacles that may prevent that from happening (my opinion):

1) cost of education; not enough people willing or able to pay private school tuition.
2) Too many Division 2 & 1AA schools in the area
3) no real recruiting edge based on ability to compete on a national basis (Bridgewater did have this at one time)

Reasons in could happen:

1) High School football in Va. is really strong (don't know about NC high school ball)
2) facilities at most ODAC schools have really improved
3) quality coaching staffs/recruiting bases
4) quality of education offered by most ODAC schools


Just a staring point for the discussion . Would be very interested in what others might think.

[RMCFan]

I think for the ODAC to become more of a national player, at least one school needs to start making consistent playoff appearances.  Once that school has been in the playoffs for consecutive years, higher levels of talent start trickling their way down into the ODAC, not necessarily that one school.  (Its kind of a "which came first:  the chicken or the egg" theory)

[tigerfanalso]

RMCFan

Didn't Bridgewater have this at one time ? They could not sustain that advantage. Thoughts as to why they could not ? Not that many years ago when Bridgewater played for the National Championship and now they are a very good team in an average D3 football conference but not dominating, if fact has not won the ODAC in several years. Just interested in knowing how other ODAC followers think about why the ODAC is a basketball power consistantly l and if that can play out in f'ball, yes or no, and why.

[RMCFan]

Maybe its just the dream of winning a national championship.  Take a look at some of the players that are playing for the Mount Unions or UW-Whitewaters.  If they know they are not going to make a significant impact at the D-I level, why not play for a powerhouse like Mount Union with a higher than average chance of winning a National Championship, getting an NCAA Championship ring and going through that entire experience.  Can an ODAC team offer a lower D-1 maybe even D-2 athlete the chance to win a National Championship?  Not yet it can't.

[hasanova]

Mt. Union is a private college.  If it were only an issue of private versus state-supported schools, the WIAC institutions, CNU and other publicly funded schools should dominate each year.  It's partly what the school administration chooses to support and fund.  I will say, in my opinion, it's easier to build a basketball program than a football program due to sheer numbers.   That is, two to three great athletes and five to seven good athletes can make a basketball program.  It takes 20 and 70, respectively, to be a national contender in football.  

Bridgewater did have it going for 5-6 years, but they haven't sustained it.  CUA had a great program in the late 90's - same story.  Not sure what the answer is.  The truth sometimes hurts, but the ODAC is a so-so DIII football conference at the moment.  To start the season at least, I don't think any ODAC school will get my vote for a South Region Top Ten spot.

"On any given 'Saturday' " to paraphrase the old saying, but if the season started today, I don't think any ODAC school would be competitive against the national Top Ten.  

[Ryan Tipps]

In my perspective, I wouldn't call the ODAC just a "so-so conference." True, it hasn't made it past Round 1 in the postseason in recent years, but part of that is due to the immense parity in the league: There are no supremely dominant teams, thus there are no 10-0 seasons and no favorable playoff seedings (ex: Wesley and MUC the last two seasons!).

But I see the conference as above "so-so" based on its nonconference record.
In 2008, the teams went 5-0, 4-0, 2-2, 2-3, 1-3, 3-1 and 3-1. That's a total of 20-10 in nonconference play.
In 2007 (not counting E&H's forfeits), the teams went 3-2, 3-1, 2-1, 4-0, 4-0, 4-0, 3-1. That's a total of 23-5 in nonconference play.

Just because there's no "elite" teams in the conference doesn't mean it's so-so. Before Whitewater's run, even the WIAC had several years as one-and-done in the playoffs because of conference losses contributing to poor seedings.

Personally, I'd rather see a conference that's tough top to bottom and where the teams build a consistent base and compete every time they step on the field rather than have a top heavy conference with lots of blowouts. The only problem with the high parity conferences is that there needs to be some patience as they can take a couple years to mature. And as of now, it's been, what, only three seasons without Bridgewater as the reigning "big dog"?

[hasanova]

Ryan, you make a good point about the ODAC's out-of-conference (regular season) records ... and certainly the league parity does contribute to poor first round seeding for the ODAC.  Don't get me wrong, almost no one wants the ODAC to be a stronger conference more than I do, but I just don't think our "best" is in the nation's best.  Perhaps "so-so" was too strong.   I do agree, however, that the league is a lot more fun than it was when BC dominated (sorry Eagles fans!) ... and I'm sure there are at least nine OAC schools that wish their conference also had more parity! 

[Pat Coleman]

I think so-so is fair -- it's not like the ODAC was playing the OAC or WIAC or E8 or the NJAC to get those records.

[hasanova]

I think so-so is fair -- it's not like the ODAC was playing the OAC or WIAC or E8 or the NJAC to get those records.

That's so true, Pat.  The USASAC dominates the ODAC's out-of-conference schedule if for no other reasons but geography and lower travel costs.  With the possible exception of CNU, the USA South won't be a "power" conference either.

[Ryan Tipps]

You're right, the ODAC wasn't playing those types of conferences (if it was, with that kind of nonconference record, no one would ever accuse the ODAC of being "so-so").

However, the ODAC has fared well against teams in the Centennial, which has been having a few up years. Also, ODAC teams have beaten many of the upper USA South teams. I give a lot of credit to teams that can win consistently, that don't just win "fluke" games and that at a minimum beat the teams they're "supposed" to beat. I think the ODAC has done that for the past two years (and with a pretty lopsided record), and it's definitely moved up ladder in terms of strength.

[HSCTiger74]

Does ODAC football have an opportunity to compete on a national level like ODAC basketball does ?

Obstacles that may prevent that from happening (my opinion):

1) cost of education; not enough people willing or able to pay private school tuition.
2) Too many Division 2 & 1AA schools in the area
3) no real recruiting edge based on ability to compete on a national basis (Bridgewater did have this at one time)

Reasons in could happen:

1) High School football in Va. is really strong (don't know about NC high school ball)
2) facilities at most ODAC schools have really improved
3) quality coaching staffs/recruiting bases
4) quality of education offered by most ODAC schools


Just a staring point for the discussion . Would be very interested in what others might think.

Certainly the ODAC can compete on a national level, as Bridgewater has proved in the past, but as Hasanova and Ryan have pointed out it may take a couple of seasons before it happens. Addressing Tigerfan's points (and with apologies in advance for length) ...

Obstacles
#1 This is an issue faced by all the private schools in D3, but it doesn't seem to have hindered the OAC, ASC, LL, NWC and various others from doing well in the playoffs.
#2 While true, it's a problem in other regions as well, and might not even have that great an effect. I believe that the overwhelming number of D3 schools within a day's drive of the ODAC are greater rivals for available players.
#3 I'm not sure if any D3 schools other than MUC and maybe Whitewater actually have this. Regulars on these boards know about all the good programs in D3, but how many HS players and coaches do?

Reasons It Could Happen
#1 Va. HS ball is strong, and the Carolinas and Md. are also good, but the hotspots for HS football are CA, FL, TX, OH, & PA. We need to make better inroads in these areas.
#2, #3, & #4 These are all factors that various D3 schools and leagues nationwide can claim. The ODAC is justified in being proud of our facilities, coaches and academic excellence, but we aren't alone.

I would also point to the fact that most of the D3 "power" conferences are in other regions. It would be great if our schools could play an occasional game against LL, E8, OAC or ASC teams to raise our league profile, but aside from the prohibitive travel costs such games would also run counter to NCAA seeding criteria, as in-region games are given more weight than out-of-region games (if my understanding is correct).
Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Feel free to weigh in with your own, or to correct any inaccuracies in mine.    

[RMCFan]

The ODAC consistently has a team or two flirting around the top 25 every year, so for that reason I wouldn't call the ODAC so-so.  I agree with (and I can't believe I'm saying this) HSCTiger.  I think its a matter of talent level which goes back to VA high school football.  I think that if higher level talent starts presenting itself in the ODAC, our teams will slowly start moving up that top 25 list until we start becoming national contenders.


Ohh and this is for Ryan Tipps - Got an inside scoop over the weekend on who might be the running back this year.  What a surprise that was for me when I found that out.

[Ryan Tipps]

Ohh and this is for Ryan Tipps - Got an inside scoop over the weekend on who might be the running back this year.  What a surprise that was for me when I found that out.

[RMCFan]

Ohh and this is for Ryan Tipps - Got an inside scoop over the weekend on who might be the running back this year.  What a surprise that was for me when I found that out.

If we are indeed thinking of the same thing...a) How many people (non-team related) know about it, and b) Does that change Macon's rankings in the polls at all?