FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Uncle Jessie]

D-Bat, you cannot be more correct when it comes to Shenandoah needing new leadership. Its sad and embarrassing how low this program is now. Look at the total amount of points scored. They are dead last in the ODAC and this is not because they moved to the ODAC. They were consistently one of the lower scoring teams in the USAC. One winning season in the last 8. SU year after year is trying to put some spin that they are just a year away from turning the page and every season its the same thing. Last year was a fluke. Hell I've never coached in my life but I can guarantee you that I will have one winning season in 8 years and I will do the job for free. Dont get me wrong people. I LOVE SU. I want to see this program be one of the best in the country and I dont see why it cant under the right leadership. Why cant us fans inspire to be a Mount Union of the South. Look at how bad Bridgewater was for years but once they got a new head coach in either 1999 or 2000 they have pretty much been one of the best teams in the ODAC. They always have a chance for the playoffs. So it can be done. I know Im rambling on but Im so frustrated.

[hasanova]

Frankly, I was a little surprised at the margin of victory in W&L's 49-14 win over RMC.  Clearly, the Generals are in the driver's seat for now, but a loss to a current one loss team could yield the title due to the head-to-head rule.  Perhaps RMC's 35-point deficit was an anomaly, but it does give hope to other teams that still have the face the Jackets.

[jknezek]

Frankly, I was a little surprised at the margin of victory in W&L's 49-14 win over RMC.  Clearly, the Generals are in the driver's seat for now, but a loss to a current one loss team could yield the title due to the head-to-head rule.  Perhaps RMC's 35-point deficit was an anomaly, but it does give hope to other teams that still have the face the Jackets.

I don't know how much yesterday's game will tell you about R-MC. From the stats it was quite obvious they couldn't stop the option. W&L averaged over 11 yards per running play. That's ridiculous. Either they weren't properly prepared or W&L was just that good. What surprised me more than W&L running up 500 yards and 49 points, was R-MC only put 14 on the board. How do you only get 14 points out of 38 minutes TOP? I know they had 3 turnovers, but still...

Wish I had watched the game instead of going to B-SC / Trinity, which I found disappointing. I would have better answers for you then.

[D-BAT]

D-Bat, you cannot be more correct when it comes to Shenandoah needing new leadership. Its sad and embarrassing how low this program is now. Look at the total amount of points scored. They are dead last in the ODAC and this is not because they moved to the ODAC. They were consistently one of the lower scoring teams in the USAC. One winning season in the last 8. SU year after year is trying to put some spin that they are just a year away from turning the page and every season its the same thing. Last year was a fluke. Hell I've never coached in my life but I can guarantee you that I will have one winning season in 8 years and I will do the job for free. Dont get me wrong people. I LOVE SU. I want to see this program be one of the best in the country and I dont see why it cant under the right leadership. Why cant us fans inspire to be a Mount Union of the South. Look at how bad Bridgewater was for years but once they got a new head coach in either 1999 or 2000 they have pretty much been one of the best teams in the ODAC. They always have a chance for the playoffs. So it can be done. I know Im rambling on but Im so frustrated.

Only 21 wins out of the last 76 speaks volumes! 

This program is continuing to go in the wrong direction!  The local community deserves more wins and IMHO, it's only going to happen until a change is made in the leadership.  This programs needs new blood ... and your right "Uncle Jessie" ... they continue to put a spin that they are just a year away.  Well, it's been awful for the last 8yrs and last year was a fluke as the USA-South was awful weak in 2011 and don't give me the BS that tuition makes it hard to recruit, there are plenty of other programs at SU getting it done facing the same tuition numbers.

It's time to clean it up and I'm surprised that the former AD, Dr. Edwards did not clean it up as he swept through the athletic department staff during his brief tenure.

[tigerfanalso]

It is becoming very clear that W&L is the dominant team in the ODAC. Don't know if they can be stopped but I do know it will be fun to watch the season unfold. I do not understand why the option is so difficult to defense but it obviously is. Surprises me more teams don't use the option offense because the blocking schemes don't require a huge OL and other positions can be easier to recruit to. W&L is clearly well coached and nobody is talking about their defense that is getting the job done each week. November 3rd could be very interesting.

[hasanova]

Frankly, I was a little surprised at the margin of victory in W&L's 49-14 win over RMC.  Clearly, the Generals are in the driver's seat for now, but a loss to a current one loss team could yield the title due to the head-to-head rule.  Perhaps RMC's 35-point deficit was an anomaly, but it does give hope to other teams that still have the face the Jackets.

I don't know how much yesterday's game will tell you about R-MC. From the stats it was quite obvious they couldn't stop the option. W&L averaged over 11 yards per running play. That's ridiculous. Either they weren't properly prepared or W&L was just that good. What surprised me more than W&L running up 500 yards and 49 points, was R-MC only put 14 on the board. How do you only get 14 points out of 38 minutes TOP? I know they had 3 turnovers, but still...

Wish I had watched the game instead of going to B-SC / Trinity, which I found disappointing. I would have better answers for you then.

If I still had to play the Generals, I'd be watching the F&M/W&L tape.

[jknezek]

If I still had to play the Generals, I'd be watching the F&M/W&L tape.

Hasa -- I'm not sure that would do you much good. I watched that F&M game and the Centre game a couple weeks later. Centre ran a very similar offense and it looked to me like W&L had made the corrections to the secondary that allowed F&M to score. W&L still gives up a lot yards, but as soon as you get inside the 30, it turns into a different defense that plays tight. It seems to be working very well.

I lay that week 1 loss on a couple things. 1) breaking in the new QB as W&L's offense didn't really start clicking until the Centre game in week 3. 2) learning to defend the pass. W&L's defense just doesn't get a lot of reps against passing teams in pre-season, so they learn a lot during the first couple passing teams they face. 3) the coaching staff needed to find the gaps. since they don't get the reps against a good passing offense, the coaching staff is also behind the ball until they see a few games and learn what the guys need to work on.

I expect the defense to get better through the first couple weeks, and this year it happened. It has surprised me how well the first string defense has played. They have given up very few points and a lot of the points Guilford and E&H scored came late with mixed or second strings.

The next three weeks don't get any easier for W&L with Bridgewater and Catholic away before H-SC at home. I expect W&L to win, but road ODAC games are always tough. W&L is 12-1 at home over the last three seasons, but 8-5 on the road. Last year E&H almost got W&L when the Generals went to their house, and I expect at least one of the next two games to at least give W&L a scare.

One fun fact from Saturday's game, it ties the all-time series between W&L and R-MC at 29-29-3.

W&L all time vs ODAC teams:
25-17 Bridgewater
13-3 Catholic
13-28 E&H  lets not talk about '83 to '01
14-11 Guilford
32-36-2  H-SC
0-0 Shenandoah


Stats compliments of the W&L website.

[jknezek]

It is becoming very clear that W&L is the dominant team in the ODAC. Don't know if they can be stopped but I do know it will be fun to watch the season unfold. I do not understand why the option is so difficult to defense but it obviously is. Surprises me more teams don't use the option offense because the blocking schemes don't require a huge OL and other positions can be easier to recruit to. W&L is clearly well coached and nobody is talking about their defense that is getting the job done each week. November 3rd could be very interesting.

I posted something in response to this in the ATN thread on these boards. Basically it went as follows:

1) The option is hard to defense mainly because teams don't get enough practice against it. It is a completely different offensive theory to the vast majority of pass happy ODAC teams, and that is a major W&L offensive advantage. Defending the option requires a huge change in mindset, especially for linebackers and the secondary.

2) There is a reason more teams don't run the option, and that's primarily because it doesn't work if the other team has better athletes. Teams like Salisbury have outstanding athletes and use the option beautifully. But as soon as they face a team with comparable athletes (Wesley or whoever they get second or third round of the playoffs) they are in serious trouble. W&L has ODAC caliber athletes, although I'd say the stable of running backs/qbs the last few years have been better than ODAC caliber in most cases, so they can use the option to great effect. When they played Thomas More in the playoffs or, uggh Wilkes, the option offense against significantly better athletes was a complete failure. You have to be at least close athletically to even have a shot with the option.

Also, teams with more time to prepare, the first week of the season or coming off a bye week, have traditionally done very well against W&L's option, even in the last few seasons. Averitt two years ago, F&M both years (1-1) and Centre last year have been tough competition.

The option cuts both ways, but I do agree that it makes it easier to recruit many offensive positions. Enough high schools still run the option, or at least a running offense, that you can recruit skill positions well. The line is a little easier to recruit since you do so little pass blocking, and what you really lose are receivers. Hard to interest them in coming to an option offense, but they primarily block so you can use undersized tight ends. That being said, W&L's Junior tight end is outstanding and when we do throw to him he is a bear to handle.

[HSCTiger fan]

I don't know what you mean when you say ODAC caliber athletes. That's a ridiculous statement. You use Salisbury in your example. HSC beat them the 2 years in a row by a combined score of 89 to 42. In 2010 HSC defeated the option of Salisbury and then lost to the ODAC caliber talented option at WL. The talent in this league is very good.

[jknezek]

I don't know what you mean when you say ODAC caliber athletes. That's a ridiculous statement. You use Salisbury in your example. HSC beat them the 2 years in a row by a combined score of 89 to 42. In 2010 HSC defeated the option of Salisbury and then lost to the ODAC caliber talented option at WL. The talent in this league is very good.

Personally I think the ODAC's talent level, in football, is toward the middle of the D3 universe as a whole. Occassionally we get standout teams, Bridgewater in the early 2000s obviously, some of the E&H teams in the 90s, H-SC more recently has had a few good teams, but lately we haven't been an upper level conference in the country and that is reflected in our string of first round playoff losses. It's not a knock on the ODAC, but the more I watch the ASC games, Wesley, some of the E8 and NJAC contests over the computer, even the B-SC vs Trinity game I went to this week, and some of the later round playoff games I can admit there is a talent gap between some of these leagues and the ODAC.

I consider Salisbury to be the premiere option attack around right now. I watched them over the computer playing SJF and I don't think W&L has the same kind of athletes on the line, or in the defense, to keep up with them right now. Just my opinion. I think that H-SC team that beat Salisbury in 2010 but lost to W&L was one of the best teams the ODAC has put on the field since Bridgewater's run. The loss to W&L was an anomaly and they should have beat Montclair at home in the playoffs. I think that team got a little unlucky losing to W&L and it cost them big time in their playoff seeding.

Similarly, I think last year's W&L team was probably the best team they've put on the field since the early 80s. They got unlucky facing Centre and H-SC on the road in a year when both those teams were strong. This team is improving, but I don't think they are quite to last year's level yet.

But to answer your question, I think the ODAC is pretty balanced right now and I think that's because a lot of schools are getting very similar athletes. They are typical D3 athletes, and that's a compliment not a knock, so the ODAC's talent level, as a whole, is toward the middle of D3. I think that's an honest opinion and yours may differ, but there is nothing "ridiculous" about it.

[abnrgr]

Okay Theagenes...... calm down. Everybody knows the HSC Band of Thebs are good. Jknezek is pretty much fair about his assessments. 

[abnrgr]

Hasa
Need insight on RMC-GC-Q. What are you calling it? I just can't pull the tirgger this time. Well normally a trigger is no problem but I am speaking metaphorically.

[hasanova]

Hasa
Need insight on RMC-GC-Q. What are you calling it? I just can't pull the tirgger this time. Well normally a trigger is no problem but I am speaking metaphorically.

I would like to know additional thoughts on this game as well!  W&L did similarly against both teams. Wonder if the loss will have them beat up, or pumped up for this week.

If it matters in the calling of the game, I will be at RMC raising hell (someone needs to balance out their homecoming crowd)

As much as I love my Quakers, I'd probably give RMC a 3-7 point edge in this game since it's being played in Ashland.  You never know though, the Quakers are on a high with a two game win streak and the Jackets took their lumps versus W&L.  The Quakes have also had two more days to practice and recuperate.  Go Guilford!

[hasanova]

Guilford QB ODAC Offensive POTW:

http://www.guilfordquakers.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20121015i2wx2n

[abnrgr]

Good for "The Paw".

Sounds good to me anyway