FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[HSCTiger fan]

I think HSC's offense is as unique to W&L as there's is to HSC. Both teams only have 1 week to prepare for the other. Should be fun.

[jknezek]

I think HSC's offense is as unique to W&L as there's is to HSC. Both teams only have 1 week to prepare for the other. Should be fun.

I would say this has not been true the past couple years. HSC's offense has looked like a myriad of other teams W&L plays throughout the season, with the caveat being that HSC is usually the best at running it. Every offense has wrinkles, but W&L plays many teams that run 3 and 4 wide offenses with running plays mixed in. Most of the ODAC looks fairly similar with slightly different emphasis on their play calling mix, the size and speed of receivers, the arm strength of the qb, reliance on short versus long passes, empty back fields, motion, etc. In other words, every offense is different, but H-SC's offense looks a lot more like the rest of the teams W&L plays (except Sewanee), than W&L's offense is going to look like anything else H-SC sees on a regular basis.

No guarantee of victory of course, it's just a fact that W&L plays a drastically different offense whereas H-SC plays a much more typical one. That's not an insult, and I've posted before that I think W&L's option has strengths and weaknesses that cut both ways. You will always hear me say there is a reason the triple option is not a dominant offensive philosophy and that I don't think a team can ever win the D3 playoffs running it. I'm surprised Salisbury got as far as they did last year.

[HSCTiger fan]

I agree that HSC's offense may "look" more like others in the conference, but it's still a very unique offense.  W&L runs better than any one. Triple option is tough to defend there's no doubting that.  HSC defense will have their hands full this Saturday.  I'll agree that the HSC offense is more traditional than W&L's. But I bet you the d-coordinator for both teams has spent a little more time watching film than usual.  It's fun all the anticipation and speculation! Right?!

[wesleydad]

I think HSC's offense is as unique to W&L as there's is to HSC. Both teams only have 1 week to prepare for the other. Should be fun.

since these teams play each other each year, how much dont they know about each other.  this is similar to wesley and salisbury, they play each other every year and have a good idea what each other is going to do.  granted the players have to execute the game plan on both sides of the ball, but i have a feeling that both d coordinators already know what they want to do to stop the other team.  i agree with JK, the option has its pros and cons, when run well it is tough to stop, when not executed with precision the results are rather ugly which sounds like what happened with W&L at Bridgewater.  if both defenses are experienced oriented it wont take long for them to reload the data and be ready for what comes at them.  I also agree that so many teams run the 3 and 4 wide sets that it has almost become standard for the d's to know how to deal with it.  i expect a good game, but also expect both defenses to be more than prepared for the offenses.

[jknezek]

wesleydad I don't think it's a matter of how well you know your opponent, it's a matter of how ingrained are your habits. Where is your first step? What is your instinct when the ball is snapped. When playing the option, if you don't get the practice, all the film study will tell you to do one thing, but all your practice and experience tells you to do another.

If you have better athletes, it doesn't matter. That first step, that slight hesitation, that fraction of a second it takes you to recognize something you don't get a lot of practice against is easily made up. If you have similar athletes, that ever so small advantage adds up. The offensive edge is just a fraction larger and that makes a difference.

That's why I don't ever expect an option team to go win the D3 playoffs. Once the athletes get to a certain comparable level, it is no longer an advantage. It's why Salisbury can steamroll the E8 for almost 2 years (good job Ithaca!) but struggle against some of the best athletes in D3 when they play Wesley. Or why they come to a screeching halt in the playoffs.

The option is very one-dimensional. That dimension is hard to stop when you face it one or two games a year, but if there is a gap in the athletes, and the option team is on the short stick, the option just gets killed.

Or, like the other week against Bridgewater, if you just don't show up in any of the 3 phases of the game, and the other team plays well, you are going to get beaten badly...

[hasanova]

NFL15 - Come by the Quaker Club tent during the Nov. 3 CUA game - I look forward to meeting you.  Your son's playing quite well this season - you and GC have much reason to be proud.  I've been following Quaker football since 1970, so this season has given me both immediate satisfaction and great hope for the future. 

[biggben53]

In regards to the comparison of the "uniqueness" of W&L's and H-SC's offenses...

W&L is unique because no one runs that offense and executes it on a consistent basis like W&L does (maybe Salisbury is an exception, but i still think W&L is more consistent with it). 

H-SC is unique because of the speed at which they play.  When he is on a roll, the speed at which Coach Favret calls plays rivals the speed at which Oklahoma runs plays. It is very difficult for a defense to stop an offense that snaps the ball right when the play clock starts.

Offensively, this game will be all about rhythm.  When W&L gets their option offense rolling, they can just toy with you.  When H-SC combines its pace with efficiency, there are not many defenses that can stop them.

This is an obvious statement, but it will all come down to turnovers.  Can H-SC disrupt W&L's backfield in order to get the ball on the ground?  Can W&L get H-SC to 3rd & 10+ to force some risky throws?

[HSCTiger fan]

...if there is a gap in the athletes, and the option team is on the short stick, the option just gets killed...

I have always heard the opposite of your argument above. I have always heard that that running the option was the equalizer. That's why all the service academies run it.

When Paul Johnson was at Georgia Southern they won 2 national championships running the veer option.  In fact, they won 4 more running the same offense for a total of 6.  When Johnson left they tried to convert to a more conventional offense and failed. They brought in the running backs coach under Johnson named Jeff Monken and have played in the national semifinals the last 2 years. It's a proven college football tournament offense. 

[jknezek]

...if there is a gap in the athletes, and the option team is on the short stick, the option just gets killed...

I have always heard the opposite of your argument above. I have always heard that that running the option was the equalizer. That's why all the service academies run it.

When Paul Johnson was at Georgia Southern they won 2 national championships running the veer option.  In fact, they won 4 more running the same offense for a total of 6.  When Johnson left they tried to convert to a more conventional offense and failed. They brought in the running backs coach under Johnson named Jeff Monken and have played in the national semifinals the last 2 years. It's a proven college football tournament offense.

Can't help you there. I've heard it's an equalizer as well. But eyes on the field tell me it's not when the other team has better athletes. So long as the two teams are comparable or close, I think the option is an advantage simply because it isn't seen frequently. But when the defending team has better athletes, the option performs badly. Maybe playing apples to oranges is an advantage against a stronger team, you might perform worse if you tried apples to apples, but I just don't see the option making a less athletic offense more competitive with a more athletic defense.

I do think the option provides an advantage. I talked about it as that first step, first moment, first instinct, whatever you want to call it. If the defending team can overcome that, the option is dead meat.

[tigerfanalso]

I think the option is difficult to defend because of the reads required and the discipline to "stay home". We'll see how the HSC defense handles it on Saturday. The second question is this; does W&L have the athletes to defend a balanced attack.
Can they control the line of scrimmage and/or can the dbacks defend the pass. The front 7 and the dbacks will be pressured all day. I certainly don't have the answers but I do know both defenses are going to be tested. I think the game is going to be really exciting to watch and I think the W&L and HSC are the best two teams in the ODAC

[biggben53]

I agree completely with the discipline aspect of "staying home".  It is very difficult to do on defense...if Fryman & Co. can do this for H-SC, they should have success on defense.

I can't wait for the game Saturday...should be another memorable game, much like the past 2 years.

[tigerfanalso]

Hasa

Did u make it to HSC last weekend ?

[tigerfanalso]

Jknezek

How do u see the W&L vs. HSC game playing out ? I know u have not seen HSC play in person but I know u understand the ODAC better than most and your thoughts would be interesting.

Has anyone on the board seen both teams this year ? If so your thoughts will be appreciated as well.

[jknezek]

Honestly I don't know. My belief at the beginning of the year was that H-SC would be the better team. Both have had their disappointing moments this year, though HSC's is farther in the past than W&L's. But the Generals have, with the exception of the Bridgewater game, been better than I expected. Lombardo has done a good job at qb outside that one game, but he is not Westfal. He actually runs a little better, but his decision making isn't quite as good and his passing, as limited as it is, is worse. Heinsohn, Murray, and the other W&L backs have been incredible when the right decisions are made.

If both teams show up and play as they are capable of playing, it will be a close game determined by who makes the fewest mistakes.

My general rule of thumb in the ODAC is pretty simple. If I don't think one team has a clear advantage over another, go with the home team. It's hard to win on the road in the ODAC...

[tigerfanalso]

I honestly don't know which team is better either and I think as a rule of thumb, pick the home team in ODAC play. Look no further than the HSC vs. CU game earlier this year. I think the W&L vs. HSC game is going to come to which defense is going to be able to slow down the offense. Don't know what those matchups are going to look like, but the defense that figures it out and executes will equal a victory for that team. If neither defense is effective and it becomes a shoot out, either team could win, possibily the team with the ball last. Turnovers will be part of the story as well and turnovers can come from good D or poor execution on the part of the O. Kicking game factors in and again, I don't have a clue if either team is superior over the other in that part of the game.