FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigerfanalso]

Jknezek

I had several friends with me Saturday in Lexington, that had no dog in the fight and where there to watch my Son play.
They all said, at different parts of the 4th quarter, that it was the most exciting game they had ever seen and what a shame one team had to walk away a loser.

I was surprised both defenses were able to hold the offenses to just 27 points in regulation. The final score reflected what I thought the final score might look like, but in regulation. The wrong field goal ended the game but what a game it was. Good luck the next two weeks. Bring home a victory for the ODAC. How do the Tigers stack up against RMC in your opinion ?

[jknezek]

At home, HSC should have no problems with RMC. Having said that, they should have had no problems last year either, even though it was on the road. Can HSC rebound from seeing their post-season goal end? RMC played well last week, which is an improvement over the two previous weeks. RMC has known for a while they were probably out of it, so they may have a stronger mental state.

It is a rivalry game, so unless the teams are miles apart (think of the Monon Bell game lately) there really is no good basis for making a definitive statement.

HSC has better talent. RMC should be in a better place mentally. HSC should have a home field boost. When in doubt in the ODAC, go with the home team.

[biggben53]

Having played with or against almost all of these players, here is my take on the postseason awards:

O.P.O.Y. Heinsohn, RB/K, W&L...without him running the ball up the middle, W&L can't run its offense. Not to mention, he played outstanding in the biggest game of the year.  Pretty impressive he kicks as well.

Honorable Mention: Holton Walker, H-SC...with Vance and Cavanagh graduating, extremely impressive what he's been able to do this year, leading the ODAC by far in every receiving category.

D.P.O.Y. Fryman, LB, H-SC...by far and away the best defensive leader in the ODAC.  I don't think he's missed a tackle since middle school.  Told by everyone at all levels that he's too small, yet he continues to average 10 tackles a game and 2 TFL's a game. Needs 9 tackles vs. Macon to reach 250 for his career (has had 197 the past 2 years as a starter). Here's an interesting stat:  if he makes 4 tackles vs. Macon, he'll reach 600 tackles in his past 8 years of football at the inside linebacker position.

Honorable Mention: Robert Smith, Guilford...6.5 sacks as a LB stands out.

C.O.Y. Rusiewicz, Guilford...with all of the drama at Guilford early in the season, he managed to keep a team together and win a few ball games along the way.

R.O.Y. Toss up between Nance and Pawlowski.  Nash had big expectations and a lot of pressure and has performed well.  Pawlowski spearheaded a Guilford team that hasn't had a real star since Vogelbach.

[hasanova]

Congratulations to W&L's RB Luke Heinsohn and GC's K Tyler Hunt for being named to this week's d3football.com Team of the Week.  Nicely done, gentlemen!

[Jacketlawyer]

At home, HSC should have no problems with RMC. Having said that, they should have had no problems last year either, even though it was on the road. Can HSC rebound from seeing their post-season goal end? RMC played well last week, which is an improvement over the two previous weeks. RMC has known for a while they were probably out of it, so they may have a stronger mental state.

It is a rivalry game, so unless the teams are miles apart (think of the Monon Bell game lately) there really is no good basis for making a definitive statement.

HSC has better talent. RMC should be in a better place mentally. HSC should have a home field boost. When in doubt in the ODAC, go with the home team.

I personally think it has the makings of a long day for the Jackets.  The Tigers will be looking to make a statement after dropping a tough decision to the Gennies.  I really hope I am wrong about this.

[tigerfanalso]

Jacketlawyer, where have u been all season ? I hope your assessment of The Game is correct. After the whipping HSC received last year I hoping the Tigers are in the mood to return the favor.

[Jacketlawyer]

Jacketlawyer, where have u been all season ? I hope your assessment of The Game is correct. After the whipping HSC received last year I hoping the Tigers are in the mood to return the favor.

Been a very busy fall!  

But I will be at The Game this year, hoping for an upset.  As has been discusseed many times on this board, in a rivalry game, anything can happen!  Arruza will have his players fired up for sure.

[tigerfanalso]

Jknezek

I have my own thoughts but I'm curious of your opinion as to why the ODAC is not more competitive on the national stage in football.

[jknezek]

Jknezek

I have my own thoughts but I'm curious of your opinion as to why the ODAC is not more competitive on the national stage in football.

I don't really have an answer for this, but the thoughts I do have are rather long. I'm going to start by changing the assumption. The ODAC doesn't need a bunch of teams that compete at the national level, very few conferences have that, it needs 1 team at a time to be relevant at the national level, but it needs at least one team MOST of the time. The ODAC has periodically had a nationally relevant team, but it has never consistently had a string of nationally relevant teams the way "power" conferences tend to do.

I think to become successful at the D3 level a lot of factors need to come together at once. You need the coach, you need the facilities, you need to devote the recruiting resources, you need a long term plan and devotion of resources to test yourself, and you need to get a little lucky in your recruiting. To stay on top you need to keep the coach, keep updating the facilities, keep providing resources to the recruiting and travel, and to be a little lucky overall.

I think the E&H teams of the early 90s were almost there. There were some excellent teams that just couldn't take the final step and make a (much, much, much) more limited playoff field. Bridgewater certainly had the components for a couple years, though it centered mainly on some truly outstanding recruiting classes that weren't sustained. Why not? I don't know. Bridgewater never struck me as being outsized in terms of the resources they devoted to football, the coach, while very good, never struck me as a genius. He's been there for 18 years and had a fantastic run for a few years in the middle, surrounded by mostly ODAC average teams. So they got some very good recruits, played with them as long as they could, and didn't sustain it.

Overall, I think the ODAC is a pretty typical D3 conference. I think most of the teams, top to bottom, would fit in with any but the very top conferences in the country (ASC, WIAC, NWC). The ODAC champion might not win the PAC, the CC, the MAC, the SAA, on a regular basis, but all the ODAC teams would be competitive within the conference. And the ODAC teams would run roughshod over the NEFC, the USAS (sans Huntingdon next year. Wait until the USAS gets a look at the monster they invited into their playground), and some of the other weak conferences.

The problem the ODAC has is a true lack of a power program. If you look at the major players on the national scene, they are usually the same teams for a 5-10 year period. Mt Union, UMHB, Linfield, Wesley and St. Thomas have all been kicking around recently. Prior to that St. Johns, Ithaca, Augustana, Wisconsin La Crosse, Rowan, W&J all were power teams. Most recently, of course, no one has touched UWW until this year.

So where is the ODACs power team? I see HSC and, to a lesser degree, RMC recently trying to take that mantle but not quite pulling it off. HSC tries the hardest. I say this because they are the only team consistently scheduling challenging non-conf games and pushing their envelope. Coach Favret took over a weakened program and has built it to the top of the ODAC. He schedules Huntingdon, Salibury, CNU and other playoff caliber teams on a regular basis. No other ODAC team really takes that route. Sadly it's just not working.

The question is why isn't it working? First, he's not getting the players. HSC is good. Top shelf of the ODAC, but they aren't dominating the conference. They aren't a more than a step above everyone else, and really there is usually a team on the same step, and that's just not enough quality. Two, I'm not sure Coach Favret can get them there. He's been there 13 years and he took a weakened program to the top of the ODAC. But if he hasn't turned it into a perennial contender by now, he probably can't. Three, is the institutional will there? I don't know enough about HSC to say. Are the facilities steps above the rest of the ODAC? Is his recruiting budget better? Does he have more assistant coaches? I don't know.

We'll use what I know best as an example. I loved W&L's previous coach. He was a great guy, but almost as long as he was there he was under .500. He graduated his players, had competitive teams if not good ones more often than not, and that was good enough for W&L. He was there until he wanted to leave, and I think that is pretty much the philosophy of most ODAC teams, and that's part of why they aren't national players.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the ODAC. I know someone will bring up the number of schools and the competition for kids, the cost of tuition, etc. etc. I don't buy it. Ohio has as much competion as Virigina and it doesn't stop Ohio from generating top notch programs. The Liberty League costs as much if not more, and there is Hobart. Those are just two of many examples. It's about drive, resources, devotion and luck. I'm not sure the ODAC has the first 3 and only Bridgewater had the last one lately.

Finally, don't think I'm knocking Coach Favret. The guy is a great football coach for D3. He's done wonders at HSC and I have all the respect in the world for him and the HSC program. But that's different from asking me if I think he can turn HSC into a national contender...

[Pat Coleman]

That post just makes me feel old. Marty Favret has been there 13 years? Sheesh. Time flies!

[jknezek]

That post just makes me feel old. Marty Favret has been there 13 years? Sheesh. Time flies!

I can't believe someone actually read that whole post!

[tigerfanalso]

I didn't read the whole post but I agree with most of what I read. I would add the # of division 1aa & division 2 schools in Va & NC adds to this reality as well, maybe ! I think the facilities in the ODAC are fine, probably better than most. Don't have a clue about resources or institutional desire, although I know the ODAC has that in basketball which is a total different deal from football when u consider number of kids required, cost equip those kids and cost to operate.

[jknezek]

I didn't read the whole post but I agree with most of what I read. I would add the # of division 1aa & division 2 schools in Va & NC adds to this reality as well, maybe ! I think the facilities in the ODAC are fine, probably better than most. Don't have a clue about resources or institutional desire, although I know the ODAC has that in basketball which is a total different deal from football when u consider number of kids required, cost equip those kids and cost to operate.

You didn't make it to the second to last paragraph. I don't blame you for not reading it all, but I don't think the number of schools has an effect.

And yes, basketball is a different animal.

[HSCTiger fan]

...I don't think the number of schools has an effect...

It has an effect  in NC. There are 2 non-scholarship D1 programs in Davidson and Campbell. In addition, there are 5 private and 4 public D2 schools. It's as much about ego as anything. The kids like saying they are playing D1 or that they received a football scholarship more so than saying they received an academic scholarship.

As far as Coach Favret is concerned.  I think your most accurate statement was in the forth from last paragraph when you said "I don't know".  I could say the same things you said about Coach Favret about every tenured head footcall coach in D3 football except for the coaches at Mount Union and UWW.

[jknezek]

...I don't think the number of schools has an effect...

It has an effect  in NC. There are 2 non-scholarship D1 programs in Davidson and Campbell. In addition, there are 5 private and 4 public D2 schools. It's as much about ego as anything. The kids like saying they are playing D1 or that they received a football scholarship more so than saying they received an academic scholarship.

As far as Coach Favret is concerned.  I think your most accurate statement was in the forth from last paragraph when you said "I don't know".  I could say the same things you said about Coach Favret about every tenured head footcall coach in D3 football except for the coaches at Mount Union and UWW.

True. But then again, I wasn't asked about the rest of D3. I was asked about the ODAC. With the exception of HSC and, as I said to a lesser extent RMC, I haven't seen anyone in the ODAC really trying to up their "national impact". I have a sense HSC is trying just from looking at their improvement, their scheduling, and the fact that as a single-sex institution, having a top notch football program would be a great selling point. The last 5 years my sense is HSC has somewhat flattened out in what they are able to do. That is different from the first 8 or so years under Coach Favret. Of course, as you move up, it gets continually harder to keep moving up.

As my last paragraph stated, I'm not knocking coach Favret or HSC in any way, shape or form. HSC appears to be the program striving to move up from inside the ODAC. I'm just not sure it is happening yet and I'm not sure if it hasn't happened yet with what they are currently doing resource and coaching-wise, I'm not sure it can happen. Just my thoughts and certainly everyone can disagree.

I really don't see the other ODAC programs making the same effort at this time. W&L I think is benefiting from a bit of recruiting improvement (and luck. Heinsohn's family has ties to W&L) and improved facilities. Whether that will translate to long-term success is a different proposition. RMC seems to be trying to some extent based on scheduling, the coaching change, and the improvement in facilities. We will see if it pays off.