FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[D3MAFAN]

Jk

What do you know about Wabash and do you have any feel how HSC will match up/compete with them ?

Not a whole lot of specifics. They haven't lost more than 2 games in a season in about a decade. They are big, strong, and deep. Defensively they are extremely solid every year. This year they have a returning QB who may or may not be challenged by a few others that are probably close. The offensive line is typically solid, running game is usually strong. They play in basically a 2.5 team league. Witt and Wabash compete for the title with usually one other team from the conference rising up to present a challenge. It probably should be a two bid league, since both Witt and Wabash are generally at least playoff caliber, but that is a tall order. They are north region, and there are always more good north region teams than space, add that to the dearth of Pool C bids and the weakness of the rest of the conference along with the limited OOC games (only one per year) seems to bite them in the rear most years.

I think in a typical year Wabash is a better team than HSC. If you played this game each of the last 10 years at a neutral site I think Wabash wins 6 or 7 of them. This SHOULD NOT be a typical year for HSC, so I'm incredibly excited to see how the Tigers do. If it was a home game, I'd definitely have the Tigers as a favorite. On the road, this seems very much like a toss-up to me. First game of the season is always an oddity, so that complexity gets added in as well.

Overall it's just hard to tell. ODAC vs. NCAC matchups are extremely rare. And there aren't a lot of crossover opponents of opponents. If both teams don't have first game issues, this should be fascinating.

The NCAC board is very active and seems to be dominated by Wabash posters. Most seem pretty friendly outside of the annual Monon Bell game. I'm sure you could have some fun mixing it up with them.

I am interested in seeing what the mad-hatter has up his sleeve.

[jknezek]

Jk

What do you know about Wabash and do you have any feel how HSC will match up/compete with them ?

Not a whole lot of specifics. They haven't lost more than 2 games in a season in about a decade. They are big, strong, and deep. Defensively they are extremely solid every year. This year they have a returning QB who may or may not be challenged by a few others that are probably close. The offensive line is typically solid, running game is usually strong. They play in basically a 2.5 team league. Witt and Wabash compete for the title with usually one other team from the conference rising up to present a challenge. It probably should be a two bid league, since both Witt and Wabash are generally at least playoff caliber, but that is a tall order. They are north region, and there are always more good north region teams than space, add that to the dearth of Pool C bids and the weakness of the rest of the conference along with the limited OOC games (only one per year) seems to bite them in the rear most years.

I think in a typical year Wabash is a better team than HSC. If you played this game each of the last 10 years at a neutral site I think Wabash wins 6 or 7 of them. This SHOULD NOT be a typical year for HSC, so I'm incredibly excited to see how the Tigers do. If it was a home game, I'd definitely have the Tigers as a favorite. On the road, this seems very much like a toss-up to me. First game of the season is always an oddity, so that complexity gets added in as well.

Overall it's just hard to tell. ODAC vs. NCAC matchups are extremely rare. And there aren't a lot of crossover opponents of opponents. If both teams don't have first game issues, this should be fascinating.

The NCAC board is very active and seems to be dominated by Wabash posters. Most seem pretty friendly outside of the annual Monon Bell game. I'm sure you could have some fun mixing it up with them.

I am interested in seeing what the mad-hatter has up his sleeve.

A lot of highly entertaining but high risk offensive plays. When you have the players to pull it off, it can be brilliant.

[wally_wabash]

Jk

What do you know about Wabash and do you have any feel how HSC will match up/compete with them ?

Not a whole lot of specifics. They haven't lost more than 2 games in a season in about a decade. They are big, strong, and deep. Defensively they are extremely solid every year. This year they have a returning QB who may or may not be challenged by a few others that are probably close. The offensive line is typically solid, running game is usually strong.

You forgot fast.   They're pretty fast also.   

It's going to be a fun game, I think.  Last season Wabash's defense was excellent: +24 turnover margin, 221 ypg, .225 3rd down conversion, 133 first downs allowed (tops amongst teams that played 10 games), and the D/ST scored 13 touchdowns last year.  It was a lot of fun.  Pretty much that whole unit is back (I want to say 9 starters back on D...maybe 10). 

They'll have a huge challenge defending Nance.  In the first game of the year, with no common opponents ever and no previous week's video to digest who the heck knows what to expect.  It might take a hot minute for Wabash to get up to speed with what H-SC is doing offensively. 

It's going to be a really good game.  Quite possibly a shootout of some sort.  Really looking forward to it. 

[tigerfanalso]

Big, Strong, Fast & Deep is usually a pretty unbeatable combination. I thought UWW had monopoly on all of those attributes in D3 football !!!!!!

[jknezek]

Big, Strong, Fast & Deep is usually a pretty unbeatable combination. I thought UWW had monopoly on all of those attributes in D3 football !!!!!!

If all our teams were as big, strong, fast, disciplined and well coached as we thought they were, there would be a lot more variety in champions. But that's part of being a fan. I have a feeling Wabash will be more or less as advertised. I think their conference is a lot less balanced than the ODAC, so winning all but one or two games a year is easier for Wabash and Wittenberg, but that doesn't mean they are not very formidable teams.

[wally_wabash]

Big, Strong, Fast & Deep is usually a pretty unbeatable combination. I thought UWW had monopoly on all of those attributes in D3 football !!!!!!

I'll let you know when Wabash gets to UWW levels of big, strong, and fast.  Not quite there yet...like everybody else in D3, they're working on it.   

[tigerfanalso]

Catching up to UWW is fun to dream about but ain't going to happen at HSC in my lifetime. Hope it happens soon for the Little Giants. Good luck in that endeavor !!!

[hasanova]

Catching up to UWW is fun to dream about but ain't going to happen at HSC in my lifetime. Hope it happens soon for the Little Giants. Good luck in that endeavor !!!

I think it's worth noting that UWW got a hat trick in the 2013-14 academic year - championships in what I consider the three major sports: football, men's basketball and baseball.  I still say the WIAC schools have an advantage with lower state-supported tuition, especially in a state with a dearth of programs between the DIII WIAC and the DI Big Ten (UW-Madison).  Obviously, UWW earned their championships and kudos to the victors, but it seems like an inherent advantage to me.

[tigerfanalso]

Hasa

I agree 100%. Size of the school matters/cost of education matters. That said, the UWW coaching staff know how to recruit, coach and win. Regardless of the preceived advantages, what a job those coaches are doing. I understand the football and basketball championships BUT I've got to believe not many schools in state even play baseball, much less at a high level. In fact, I don't believe UW-Madison even fields a baseball team. How do you play outside in Feb., March and April ? How do you practice ? How do you attract baseball talent to your school ?

[ExTartanPlayer]

The "advantages" of UWW come up every so often.  I don't buy the tuition thing that much - if UWW's lower tuition is an advantage, I'd argue that it's offset by the greater "academic draw" of some more expensive private schools - but I usually do bring up the lack of D2 schools in-state.  The WIAC schools are essentially the equivalent of Pennsylvania's PSAC, a conference of 14 state-funded institutions that plays Division II in most sports (they have some Division I wrestling programs, and maybe a few other sports that I'm unaware of).

[tigerfanalso]

And the PSAC is one of the best D2 conferences in the country. If the WIAC is at or near that level, UWW will continue to win championships for many years to come.

[jknezek]

All of this may be true, but none of it is relevant. D3 doesn't have size or public/private strictures. The WIAC schools may have an advantage, but it's not an illegal advantage. Lots of schools have various advantages. Whether it is better facilities, better coaches, better academic reputations, worse academic reputations, transfer friendly policies, tuition reducers, recruiting strictures, number of coaches, travel budgets, academic assistance... the list goes on and on.

We laugh about D1 being unfair because there are rich and poor schools, but it has nothing on the unequal nature of D3. Scholarships and scholarship limits actually do wonders to level the playing field. D3 is the wild, wild west where you can pretty much do anything you want so long as you don't provide "athletic" scholarships. Or at least, you don't provide scholarships to athletes in a disproportionate nature to scholarships to non-athletes. Or at least you don't do it in a way that can be proven, or that someone cares. Anyway, you get the point...

If schools find benefits in having national championship caliber athletics, only money and will stands in the way in D3. In D1, it's actually a lot harder.

[HSCTiger fan]

The "advantages" of UWW come up every so often.  I don't buy the tuition thing that much - if UWW's lower tuition is an advantage, I'd argue that it's offset by the greater "academic draw" of some more expensive private schools - but I usually do bring up the lack of D2 schools in-state.  The WIAC schools are essentially the equivalent of Pennsylvania's PSAC, a conference of 14 state-funded institutions that plays Division II in most sports (they have some Division I wrestling programs, and maybe a few other sports that I'm unaware of).

The PSAC is very different than the WIAC. First like you said they are D2. Meaning the can bring the tuition costs down by providing football scholarships. Further there are 10 FCS/FBS schools in Pennsylvania compared to 1 in Wisconsin. There are literally 100s of college football teams within 200 miles of the schools in the PSAC. There may be 50 football schools within 200 miles of WIAC schools.

A Wisconsin kid that is not offered a scholarship by the University of Wisconsin, but is offered a scholarship by an out of state school is faced with the decision of going a great distance to play ball or stay near home and pay reasonably priced in-state tuition.  You say if in-state tuition is an advantage that it's offset by the great academic draw of some of the private schools.  That's a stretch. If anything the lower academic standards to get accepted at WIAC schools vs private schools provides an even greater talent pool to draw from.  Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, the US Service Academies don't seem to be taking advantage of their academic superiority to win football championships and they offer full scholarships.

If WIAC schools take advantage of these opportunities to create great excitement and enthusiasm for their schools, I say good for them. But there's no denying they have advantages.

[wally_wabash]

How do you explain Mount Union being dominant for two decades?  And also winning a track title I think is something that just happened.  Or how do you explain River Falls being terrible at everything?  How are they missing out on all of these advantages that exist in the WIAC? 

I think it's unfair to look at Whitewater's success and call it a WIAC thing.  It's a UWW thing.  Great coaches, great recruiting, great support...they've got everybody pulling in the same direction.  It isn't unfair what they're doing...it's up to the rest of us to take our giant endowments and our big private school brains and figure out how to beat them. 

[HSCTiger fan]

Here's an article from D3sports.com that has even WIAC coaches supporting much of what I just wrote. Yes I do think if a River Falls is bad they are missing out. I never said it's unfair.  I said there are advantages. That's undeniable. If they use those advantages to dominate then so be it.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2014/06/uw-whitewater-season-of-domination

I don't know why MU has been so dominant. But I simply don't buy the argument that they "work harder".